Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[The39thStep]

Has anyone who lives in the EU dessiato Flavour JuanTwoThree Favelado seen any thing in their national press about this issue of musicians and Brexit? I keep looking at the Portuguese media but havent come across anything at all.

 

[editor]

Inference, now. You probably mean implication, but actually it is your inference and not my implication you're bothered by. I was responding to your eel-like 'argument' strands but I've stopped now. If you want me to stick to facts then I'd ask you do likewise.

'Workshy' ffs. You said it, not me. Pull your flies up.

It's you that has repeatedly suggested that all musicians can simply take up busking, and your comments about touring America as an alternative to Europe are astoundingly ignorant. America is one of the hardest places for small UK bands to tour. It is hugely expensive.

 

[dessiato]

Has anyone who lives in the EU dessiato Flavour JuanTwoThree Favelado seen any thing in their national press about this issue of musicians and Brexit? I keep looking at the Portuguese media but havent come across anything at all.

I haven't seen anything here. I usually only read El Pais though.

 

[The39thStep]

Apparently the Lib Dems are on the case

Lib Dem peers unite musicians from Elton John to Iron Maiden over Brexit visa problems

Liberal Democrat peers have organised a letter to the Times signed by over 100 very well known musicians and others in the industry outlining the problems they are now facing as a result of the Brexit deal. Great coverage in the Times for the Lib Dem campaign to save musicians' tours to Europe...

www.libdemvoice.org

 

[Flavour]

Repubblica reported on it basically echoing an Instagram post from Elton John but there was no insight beyond that really

Brexit, il gotha della musica scrive a Boris Johnson: “Situazione insostenibile, rischiamo di non andare in tour in Europa”

Da Elton John a Roger Waters, gli artisti britannici sono preoccupati per il futuro dei loro live all'estero a causa delle restrizioni previste dall'us…

www.repubblica.it

Rolling stone Italia also reported similar taking the protests of british musicians as source

La protesta dei musicisti inglesi: la Brexit renderà complicati i tour in Europa | Rolling Stone Italia

È un problema di visti e di costi. Thom Yorke dà la colpa agli «stronzi senza spina dorsale» del governo UK. Se le cose non dovessero cambiare, ne pagherebbero le conseguenze i piccoli gruppi rock

www.rollingstone.it

Smaller publications like rumore (a tiny rock magazine) have taken a more critical stance especially of Roger Daltrey who was pro brexit and now complaining about difficulty of touring

Roger Daltrey degli Who è pro Brexit, ma critica gli accordi sconvenienti per gli artisti inglesi nei tour europei - RUMORE

Nonostante si fosse in passato dichiarato a favore della Brexit, anche Roger Daltrey si è unito al coro di proteste degli artisti per i mancati accordi sui tour in Europa

rumoremag.com

Nothing in the left wing press

 

[mojo pixy]

It's you that has repeatedly suggested that all musicians can simply take up busking, and your comments about touring America as an alternative to Europe are astoundingly ignorant. America is one of the hardest places for small UK bands to tour. It is hugely expensive.

OK, the point about NA has been made multiple times and in case you haven't noticed I dropped it pages ago.

Busking - no, not for everyone, obviously. But it's still more possible for musicians than for eg. someone made redundant from a shop that's closed, a pub that's gone under, or a fishing boat that's had to be sold etc. Stop pretending the only place musicians can do their thing is indoors, on stage, under lights, because that really is a load of shit. And btw, if venues are closed, that's still more about Covid than Brexit (I expect this to be ignored, again)

Next, please stop with the 'there isn't a lot of work around for anyone'. First, you don't get to speak for anyone, and second, there not being jobs you want to do, is not the same as there not being jobs for anyone.

Obviously please feel free to turn that into UR Norman Tebbit lol (like LBJ did) because let's face it, that's definitely the most thoughtful response.

Finally, if you don't want me to keep replying, stop quoting my messages.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Next, please stop with the 'there isn't a lot of work around for anyone'. First, you don't get to speak for anyone, and second, there not being jobs you want to do, is not the same as there not being jobs for anyone.

What do you base that on? You reckon it's easy to find work at this moment?

It's not an easy picture out there if you don't have a job. Right now, unemployment is rising, while vacancies are shrinking.

Unemployment rate: How many people are out of work?

More people looking for fewer jobs. Work doesn't just magic its way into existence just because people are looking for work. That's the main point about comparing you to Tebbit - that very tory thing of blaming the unemployed for their lack of work when the particular industry they have the skills for goes to the wall. If only everyone just tried harder there would be full employment. There are r/w economists who espouse that idea due to the magic power of markets. But of course, people losing their jobs due to brexit bureaucracy are losing their jobs due very precisely to a failure of the market. It doesn't make sense even from a magic markets pov and ideology.

 

[mojo pixy]

What do you base that on? You reckon it's easy to find work at this moment?

It's not an easy picture out there if you don't have a job. Right now, unemployment is rising, while vacancies are shrinking.

Unemployment rate: How many people are out of work?

More people looking for fewer jobs. Work doesn't just magic its way into existence just because people are looking for work. That's the main point about comparing you to Tebbit - that very tory thing of blaming the unemployed for their lack of work when the particular industry they have the skills for goes to the wall. If only everyone just tried harder there would be full employment. There are r/w economists who espouse that idea due to the magic power of markets. But of course, people losing their jobs due to brexit bureaucracy are losing their jobs due very precisely to a failure of the market. It doesn't make sense even from a magic markets pov and ideology.

If I thought for a single solitary moment that you actually cared about unemployment or unemployed people beyond using them for some snide point-scoring on a discussion forum, I honestly would bother to respond. As it is, I'll be sure to tell everyone I meet next week that the job they're desperate to get doesn't actually exist. That way you can feel the warmth of vindication while I only have to hold my nose for a moment. Win/win.

 

[pesh]

some snide point-scoring on a discussion forum

 

[editor]

Busking - no, not for everyone, obviously. But it's still more possible for musicians than for eg. someone made redundant from a shop that's closed, a pub that's gone under, or a fishing boat that's had to be sold etc. Stop pretending the only place musicians can do their thing is indoors, on stage, under lights, because that really is a load of shit. And btw, if venues are closed, that's still more about Covid than Brexit (I expect this to be ignored, again)

For the last time: IT IS CURRENTLY ILLEGAL TO BUSK.

 

[killer b]

Actually I don't even understand what you mean. Getting out of what?

I don't think posting on this thread is making you very happy, and you're making yourself look like a bit of a cunt. What's the point?

 

[TopCat]

For the last time: IT IS CURRENTLY ILLEGAL TO BUSK.

Cos COVID.

 

[editor]

Cos COVID.

Yes, indeed. But he keeps bringing it up as the go-to cash-spinning solution for all musicians, regardless.

How do you feel about what's happening to musicians and the music industry as a result of Brexit?

 

[mojo pixy]

I don't think posting on this thread is making you very happy, and you're making yourself look like a bit of a cunt. What's the point?

This kind of thing is all you do here nowadays. There used to be so much more.
Nobody on this thread is 'happy', hence it exists in the first place. I'm at least being honest.

Glad you approve. All the cool kids are into it apparently.

 

[steeplejack]

Apparently the Lib Dems are on the case

Lib Dem peers unite musicians from Elton John to Iron Maiden over Brexit visa problems

Liberal Democrat peers have organised a letter to the Times signed by over 100 very well known musicians and others in the industry outlining the problems they are now facing as a result of the Brexit deal. Great coverage in the Times for the Lib Dem campaign to save musicians' tours to Europe...

www.libdemvoice.org

Yeah, I hear the Letchworth Garden City Allotment Holders Association passed a motion of solidarity, as well.

 

[killer b]

I'm at least being honest.

this isn't true, you're pretending to misunderstand half the posts on the thread. It's fucking weird.

 

[mojo pixy]

this isn't true, you're pretending to misunderstand half the posts on the thread. It's fucking weird.

Go on and tell me what's going on in my head again. It doesn't look creepy at all.

 

[killer b]

You see, there you go. It doesn't look creepy, and I don't believe that you think it does. Why are you doing this?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is a very tough time to lose your job, whatever that job is. Perhaps we can all agree on that, given that none of us actually is Norman Tebbit or Keith Joseph or one of the other vile ideologues for whom unemployment is an indication of moral failing.

 

[Pickman's model]

For the last time: IT IS CURRENTLY ILLEGAL TO BUSK.

do you have a source for this? because that's certainly not what the musicians union are saying

Guidance for Musicians During Covid-19 Pandemic

Workplace advice, sources of financial and mental health support for musicians working in the UK during Covid-19.

musiciansunion.org.uk

advises that something shouldn't happen is rather different from being against the criminal law

 

[TopCat]

How do you feel about what's happening to musicians and the music industry as a result of Brexit?

I think COVID has put everything on hold and no one knows what infrastructure will remain after or if required safety changes will render venues completely unviable.

As for leaving the EU specifically. It’s too early to assess any impact. For COVID reasons as outlined above, and the lack yet of detail from EU countries as to what they will require for permission to work.

The music industry here will suffer if further arrangements are not put in place for sure. I do expect they will cobble something together that would allow you to gig across the continent before the end of COVID.

I suspect the days when a band could take loads of t shirts, posters and CD’s to EU gigs and flog them tax free are over, well it will be something to blag rather than a given.

The issue of who can go and work in the EU now is getting wider than musicians now. Spoken word artists and journalists were insisting on dispensations recently.

How far this will progress will depend on a willingness for both sides to enter into reciprocal agreements that are supported politically.

 

[Raheem]

Musicians could always busk from home.

 

[TopCat]

You see, there you go. It doesn't look creepy, and I don't believe that you think it does. Why are you doing this?

Leave them alone.

 

[Pickman's model]

Cos COVID.

but it seems not. which i must admit surprised me.

 

[TopCat]

but it seems not. which i must admit surprised me.

I think it might fall under the “I don’t like your face Act 1984”. Certainly I would worry about the reaction of the police at present.

 

[editor]

I suspect the days when a band could take loads of t shirts, posters and CD’s to EU gigs and flog them tax free are over, well it will be something to blag rather than a given.

Just that part of it will stop many small bands playing Europe tours as merchandise is absolutely essential to making touring economic in a post-streaming works, and that's not taking into account the additional expenses of carnets and border checks.

But I asked what you felt about it. Is it worth throwing musicians on the fire it just so we can have the one sole benefit of Brexit you've admitted to which - IIRCC -was something about that supposedly great feeling that comes from being liberated from European control?

 

[editor]

Musicians could always busk from home.

Or just rake in the ££££s by doing those incredibly big paying streaming shows.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think it might fall under the “I don’t like your face Act 1984”. Certainly I would worry about the reaction of the police at present.

i would certainly never trust the police to act within the law at any point

 

[The39thStep]

Repubblica reported on it basically echoing an Instagram post from Elton John but there was no insight beyond that really

Brexit, il gotha della musica scrive a Boris Johnson: “Situazione insostenibile, rischiamo di non andare in tour in Europa”

Da Elton John a Roger Waters, gli artisti britannici sono preoccupati per il futuro dei loro live all'estero a causa delle restrizioni previste dall'us…

www.repubblica.it

Rolling stone Italia also reported similar taking the protests of british musicians as source

La protesta dei musicisti inglesi: la Brexit renderà complicati i tour in Europa | Rolling Stone Italia

È un problema di visti e di costi. Thom Yorke dà la colpa agli «stronzi senza spina dorsale» del governo UK. Se le cose non dovessero cambiare, ne pagherebbero le conseguenze i piccoli gruppi rock

www.rollingstone.it

Smaller publications like rumore (a tiny rock magazine) have taken a more critical stance especially of Roger Daltrey who was pro brexit and now complaining about difficulty of touring

Roger Daltrey degli Who è pro Brexit, ma critica gli accordi sconvenienti per gli artisti inglesi nei tour europei - RUMORE

Nonostante si fosse in passato dichiarato a favore della Brexit, anche Roger Daltrey si è unito al coro di proteste degli artisti per i mancati accordi sui tour in Europa

rumoremag.com

Nothing in the left wing press

It might be that across Europe the impact of covid on their own culture is of understandably more importance than British bands touring tbh . Both left Bloc and the CP have been very vocal about financial support for culture over here

 

[mojo pixy]

You see, there you go. It doesn't look creepy, and I don't believe that you think it does. Why are you doing this?

Because you don't like what I'm saying, but instead of engaging with that on its own terms (and despite his rudeness and tendency to build straw men and shift goalposts, at least editor has been doing that) you're just going ''meh ur lying cunt''. I don't know what you expect to happen then, but I'm not easily intimidated so what won't be happening is me just letting it go.