Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[killer b]

Now I'm trying to intimidate you. Right.

 

[mojo pixy]

Now I'm trying to intimidate you. Right.

I don't know why you keep posting here. You're not adding content, just poking at me. Fill your boots I suppose.

Just fyi, a popular, long-standing poster accusing on a public forum of dishonesty, a poster who's been 100% frank and honest (if blunt) and is in a clear minority and is under assault from several directions, is absolutely an intimidation tactic. You began by commenting on me without actually addressing me, like some monarch of the boards, then not long after just escalated to insults like it was all you could be arsed with. It's shitty behaviour ''tbh''.

 

[Pickman's model]

For the last time: IT IS CURRENTLY ILLEGAL TO BUSK.

i'll take that as a no, then, you don't have a source for this

 

[killer b]

Just that part of it will stop many small bands playing Europe tours as merchandise is absolutely essential to making touring economic in a post-streaming works, and that's not taking into account the additional expenses of carnets and border checks.

But I asked what you felt about it. Is it worth throwing musicians on the fire it just so we can have the one sole benefit of Brexit you've admitted to which - IIRCC -was something about that supposedly great feeling that comes from being liberated from European control?

There are, in the short to medium term, no practical benefits from brexit to musicians from the UK who want to tour or sell their music to the EU, and a large number of downsides. But the advantages for musicians of being a member of the EU came at the cost of being a member of an antidemocratic neoliberal trading bloc which has created a economic and political straitjacket for it's member states which their voters have no real ability to change. Being outside that bloc - and the political freedom it brings - is an end to itself for supporters of brexit, of whatever political stripe - but it won't have any immediate practical effects they can realistically point to and say 'this is a good thing for you as a touring musician'.

 

[TopCat]

Just that part of it will stop many small bands playing Europe tours as merchandise is absolutely essential to making touring economic in a post-streaming works, and that's not taking into account the additional expenses of carnets and border checks.

But I asked what you felt about it. Is it worth throwing musicians on the fire it just so we can have the one sole benefit of Brexit you've admitted to which - IIRCC -was something about that supposedly great feeling that comes from being liberated from European control?

I think you are asking if the plight of musicians as outlined here makes me regret voting leave. Is that it?

 

[Pickman's model]

I think you are asking if the plight of musicians as outlined here makes me regret voting leave. Is that it?

i thought you might say 'we didn't start the fire'

 

[editor]

I think you are asking if the plight of musicians as outlined here makes me regret voting leave. Is that it?

No, the question is, I believe, extremely straightforward so I'd appreciate a straightforward answer.

 

[TopCat]

No, the question is, I believe, extremely straightforward so I'd appreciate a straightforward answer.

There’s a few outstanding questions I put to you. Well it was one main one. Fancy answering it yet?

 

[editor]

There’s a few outstanding questions I put to you. Well it was one main one. Fancy answering it yet?

Are these questions relevant to this thread or is it another of your diversionary tactics, just like this one?

But please link to them and I'll do my best to answer them and expect a swift straightforward reply to my oft-dodged question.

 

[TopCat]

Are these questions relevant to this thread or is it another of your diversionary tactics, just like this one?

But please link to them and I'll do my best to answer them and expect a swift straightforward reply to my oft-dodged question.

Well it’s brexit related. The question about Ireland. You know the one. You accused me of bullying you by asking you.

 

[The39thStep]

Re- reading this thread makes me think we've lost an opportunity here. Its a mish mash that's managed to encompass how things have changed , careers advice ( just for one person), bit of personal tit for tat , some useful stuff on the limits of the MU, touring in the States and isn't Elton John great . For me killer b post was a pretty good and succinct summary of where in reality we are at re Brexit and musicians. editor did mention a potentially interesting bit about needed reforms to the music industry especially at the small band level but this point didn't really get developed. I would have thought that especially with covid ruling out a lot of travelling to europe in the near future that this might be worth exploring ?

 

[editor]

Well it’s brexit related. The question about Ireland. You know the one. You accused me of bullying you by asking you.

Nope. Nothing to do with this thread and I did answer that question actually, politely, patiently in some detail. I told you I didn't know enough about that particular topic and I still don't. and when I do, I'll be sure to contribute to the appropriate thread.

Or am I to be compelled to read up any random topic you bring up on an unrelated thread before you can get around to answering a question honestly?

 

[editor]

Re- reading this thread makes me think we've lost an opportunity here. Its a mish mash that's managed to encompass how things have changed , careers advice ( just for one person), bit of personal tit for tat , some useful stuff on the limits of the MU, touring in the States and isn't Elton John great . For me killer b post was a pretty good and succinct summary of where in reality we are at re Brexit and musicians. editor did mention a potentially interesting bit about needed reforms to the music industry especially at the small band level but this point didn't really get developed. I would have thought that especially with covid ruling out a lot of travelling to europe in the near future that this might be worth exploring ?

I really can't imagine any positive reforms that are likely to come out of Brexit/Covid at small band level. What kind of thing did you have in mind?

 

[Pickman's model]

on the positive side, at least busking's still legal

 

[The39thStep]

I really can't imagine any positive reforms that are likely to come out of Brexit/Covid at small band level. What kind of thing did you have in mind?

I wasn't talking about likely tbh I was more thinking what is required . Sort of on the lines of how could small bands attract an audience , receive exposure, sell merchandise , get better earnings from streaming etc in a world that is likely to have covid restrictions of some sort for some time. Things like would gigs be possible, what investment would be required , grants required for venues and small bands etc. I'm doing a bit of thinking out loud tbh .

 

[editor]

I wasn't talking about likely tbh I was more thinking what is required . Sort of on the lines of how could small bands attract an audience , receive exposure, sell merchandise , get better earnings from streaming etc in a world that is likely to have covid restrictions of some sort for some time. Things like would gigs be possible, what investment would be required , grants required for venues and small bands etc. I'm doing a bit of thinking out loud tbh .

Unless the legislation changes dramatically - and this government have already shown they have little interest in that - I can see absolutely zero benefit from Brexit for small bands who used to earn money on the European circuit.

So that leaves them with UK-only gigs, where there will be even more competition for an ever decreasing amount of venues. Merchandise sales will also be hugely reduced because Brexit makes it so stupidly fucking difficult to post stuff abroad.

Same for promoters and festival organisers too, who will find out harder to book European acts.

It's a really grim landscape for the UK music industry.

 

[Favelado]

Has anyone who lives in the EU dessiato Flavour JuanTwoThree Favelado seen any thing in their national press about this issue of musicians and Brexit? I keep looking at the Portuguese media but havent come across anything at all.

Yeah. El Pais mentioned it. If i get a minute ill post something

 

[killer b]

Brexit makes it so stupidly fucking difficult to post stuff abroad.

This is an issue I've seen a lot of since new year - lots of labels have had their vinyl sales totally fucked because of the new custom arrangements - the buyers are getting hit with massive charges when their record arrives so they aren't buying again. This seems to have affected sales to elsewhere in the world as well as Europe too (presumably because the previous custom arrangements were with the EU rather than with the UK) - most people I know have more or less given up selling (or buying) to the United States because of the extra costs.

 

[Favelado]

Has anyone who lives in the EU dessiato Flavour JuanTwoThree Favelado seen any thing in their national press about this issue of musicians and Brexit? I keep looking at the Portuguese media but havent come across anything at all.

Spanish telly are on it, their BBC.

Los músicos británicos, en la encrucijada del 'Brexit'

Los músicos británicos, en la encrucijada del 'Brexit'

www.rtve.es

 

[The39thStep]

Spanish telly are on it, their BBC.

Los músicos británicos, en la encrucijada del 'Brexit'

Los músicos británicos, en la encrucijada del 'Brexit'

www.rtve.es

Ta. Anything on the Spanish unhappy about not being able to see Britsh bands ?

 

[editor]

Ta. Anything on the Spanish unhappy about not being able to see Britsh bands ?

Given the popularity of British bands I can't see why music lovers wouldn't be unhappy, although they're unlikely to be making much of a fuss at the moment given that the country is still in lockdown and no gigs are taking place.

 

[The39thStep]

Given the popularity of British bands I can't see why music lovers wouldn't be unhappy, although they're unlikely to be making much of a fuss at the moment given that the country is still in lockdown and no gigs are taking place.

I’m asking someone who lives in Spain about the media and news coverage in Spain . Most of Europe is in lockdown like the U.K.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

There’s a few outstanding questions I put to you. Well it was one main one. Fancy answering it yet?

I don't think it's fair to demand for your (irrelevant) 'outstanding' questions to be answered when you haven't answered the very first question put to you about what exactly the benefits of Brexit are (ideally one relating to this thread, but honestly any will do), but you can't just answer 'Brexit is good because we left the EU' ("One of the benefits we have seen from leaving the EU is that we have left the EU" - You can see how that doesn't count right?).

C'mon man, you seem so passionate about it, there must be loads and loads of Brexit positives for you to pick and choose from.

 

[editor]

I don't think it's fair to demand for your (irrelevant) 'outstanding' questions to be answered when you haven't answered the very first question put to you about what exactly the benefits of Brexit are (ideally one relating to this thread, but honestly any will do), but you can't just answer 'Brexit is good because we left the EU' ("One of the benefits we have seen from leaving the EU is that we have left the EU" - You can see how that doesn't count right?).

C'mon man, you seem so passionate about it, there must be loads and loads of Brexit positives for you to pick and choose from.

It should be a really easy question for him to answer too, given his never ending enthusiasm for Brexit.

 

[MrSki]

I don't think it's fair to demand for your (irrelevant) 'outstanding' questions to be answered when you haven't answered the very first question put to you about what exactly the benefits of Brexit are (ideally one relating to this thread, but honestly any will do), but you can't just answer 'Brexit is good because we left the EU' ("One of the benefits we have seen from leaving the EU is that we have left the EU" - You can see how that doesn't count right?).

C'mon man, you seem so passionate about it, there must be loads and loads of Brexit positives for you to pick and choose from.

Haven't your heard that contactless payment might be raised to £100 now the UK is independent. Fucking right result if you are lucky enough to have money in the bank.

 

[MickiQ]

Haven't your heard that contactless payment might be raised to £100 now the UK is independent. Fucking right result if you are lucky enough to have money in the bank.

That in itself is a good thing from my point of view, usually when I fill my car up it costs around £50-60 per time so I have to stick the card in, however if it's the only upside set against all the downsides it's a pretty piss poor deal.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Haven't your heard that contactless payment might be raised to £100 now the UK is independent. Fucking right result if you are lucky enough to have money in the bank.

Is this really as a direct result of leaving the EU? Were they holding this back? We managed to raise it from 30 to 50 while still in the EU and there are obviously variable exchange rates involved too.

You can now buy fags at uk airports (airside) at the same discounted price for international flights as EU flights, however as there is nowhere to smoke them before you arrive in the EU, and normal shop fags in the EU are still cheaper, you'd be a bit of a mug to get them UK duty free on the way out. That's the only 'benefit' I have come across.

 

[editor]

Radiohead's take on fucking Brexit

There’s also that ugly word, cabotage – the rights for transport movement – with trucks carrying the gear from the UK only allowed two drop-offs in the EU before having to return to Britain, making a multi-city tour impossible with a UK tour bus or truck fleet.

What about the solo cellist who is going to play in Berlin for a couple of hundred euros, and sees her carnet will cost more than the fee? Will the promoter in Berlin think twice about the costs and hassle of booking her rather than an artist from the EU? What about a young violinist from Vienna who dreams of studying at one of the prestigious UK music schools, and now feels discouraged to tangle with Brexit’s “specialised expertise”? This is a tragedy of deferred dreams.

European touring made Radiohead what we are. Brexit must not destroy it | Colin Greenwood

Unless our government acts, the red tape and costs of touring Europe will kill off careers and diminish our national culture

www.theguardian.com

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

But Freedom

 

[The39thStep]

Ronan Keating wants to meet Johnson and warns that musicians could leave the UK to live in the EU