Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[mojo pixy]

Well so far I've suggested (Covid aside) busking, playing more shows in the UK, gigging in North America, joining a union and finding other work beyond music. I've been doused with a fountain of bile, and shut down with the (actually quite reasonable) assertion that as a non-professional musician (and it's true, I now consider myself firmly embedded in the care industry fwiw) I shouldn't be telling professionals but listening. So I'm done with shitty suggestions, and I'm listening. What suggestions do you have?

 

[editor]

Well so far I've suggested (Covid aside) busking, playing more shows in the UK, gigging in North America, joining a union and finding other work beyond music.

So you're just going to keep repeating the same bad, impractical and sometimes plain ignorant advice even when the colossal flaws in your argument keep getting pointed out?

1. Busking. It's currently illegal and only a tiny fraction of musicians can do it for reasons patiently explained many times
2. Gigging in America. If you had the slightest clue of what touring in the US entails, you wouldn't be coming up with such a ridiculous suggestion. Notwithstanding the colossal, crippling costs that are way out of reach of most small bands, musicians face huge obstacles trying to tour America, starting from trying to get a visa: securing the relevant legal permissions to perform in the US is a lengthy, complex, expensive, and precarious process, with even fairly high profile acts regularly denied permission. For you to suggest it as a practical option for small bands is almost comically stupid (please read links below)
3. Join a union It's already been explained in detail why joining the MU is not a cost effective move for grassroots musicians in the other thread.
4. Finding other work. There's not a lot of work around right now for anyone, let alone for older, unskilled musicians

I have no suggestions of my own right now, because Brexit has hammered the final nail into any hope of sustaining my future as a musician. Perhaps I'll get a CEO job next week though.

International Artists Hit by 50% Hike in U.S. Visa Prices

New $695 fee threatens to make low-budget tours “unviable,” say UK music bodies

pitchfork.com

Cost of visas for UK bands to tour the USA rises by a shocking 50 per cent. The Americans lock UK bands out of their country.

Whilst American bands pay hardly any money to tour the UK the British bands are now expected to pay even more to go to the USA wi

louderthanwar.com

How Much Does It Cost To Tour In 2018?

It has been commonly acknowledge that touring is now how artists are making their money in today's music business, but hitting on the road brings with it a host of. Continue reading

www.hypebot.com

 

[danski]

Maybe this thread could be streamed via Zoom for money.
Has little of the Handforth parish about it

 

[TopCat]

This is like arguing with a child. Let's try again: was removing the right of freedom of movement a central tenet of the leave campaign YES/NO?

It wasn’t on the ballot. That wasn’t the question. Choose your language less sloppily.

 

[spitfire]

Getting a working visa for America is expensive and difficult even with the smallest conviction or arrest. We had 2 members of our touring party refused visas and then barred from entry to the USA for life.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is like arguing with a child. Let's try again: was removing the right of freedom of movement a central tenet of the leave campaign YES/NO?

wasn't £350m a week to the nhs a central tenet of the leave campaign?

 

[spitfire]

Actually does anyone know what the new working visa's for the EU entail with regards to convictions/arrest?

 

[Pickman's model]

Removing the right to freedom of movement was, or have you forgotten?

 

[mojo pixy]

So you're just going to keep repeating the/...

No, you illiterate, obtuse plonker. I posted,

So I'm done with shitty suggestions, and I'm listening.

And now I'm waiting for what the professionals suggest. Because this is about planning, organizing and mutual support isn't it? Course it is.

 

[Steel Icarus]

READ THEM AND UNDERSTAND THEM

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually does anyone know what the new working visa's for the EU entail with regards to convictions/arrest?

here is the government's informative page on working in the eu

Work in an EU country

Where you can work, your rights, healthcare, tax and National Insurance payments.

www.gov.uk

 

[spitfire]

here is the government's informative page on working in the eu

Work in an EU country

Where you can work, your rights, healthcare, tax and National Insurance payments.

www.gov.uk

Thanks.

It says, "Check with the UK-based embassy of the country you want to work in to see what you need to do."

So you have to check with each individual countries embassy as to what the restrictions are? Well that's not a massive ball ache at all.

"OK Trevor, you can do the backline for us in Germany, Belgium and Spain but not France as they don't like your conviction for 1/8 of puff*."


*I did not check if this was true

 

[mojo pixy]

4. Finding other work. There's not a lot of work around right now for anyone, let alone for older, unskilled musicians

Yesterday I trained three people who were all over 30, two of them were over 40, all three were new to the sector and had no previous experience or qualifications in care work. Obviously not being musicians they had a huge advantage in learning the new skills involved, because .. err ..

I have no suggestions of my own right now, because Brexit has hammered the final nail into any hope of sustaining my future as a musician. Perhaps I'll get a CEO job next week though.

So that's how you see yourself, a CEO? Nothing less than that, nothing more mundane? No way you can imagine being at the bottom of a ladder, it's about expecting to arrive instantly at the top of one? Well that just about says it all for me. I can only hope you find the niche you clearly feel you deserve

 

[Steel Icarus]

.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Actually does anyone know what the new working visa's for the EU entail with regards to convictions/arrest?

Not as onerous as for the US, Australia etc. But of course that could change at any time.




As an aside, according to an email I have received this afternoon it seems HM Gov wants to hear my views on the whole post-Brexit music touring situation. So it seems that someone at the very least is trying to look in to the situation.

 

[han]

Excellent article by Elton John about all this.

Elton John: I learned by touring Europe in the 60s. Young artists need the same chance

Brexit negotiators have screwed up the deal for Britain’s emerging musicians, says entertainer Elton John

www.theguardian.com

And before anyone poo-poos him for being too mainstream/privileged, it's precisely the lesser known, starting out etc musicians he's standing up for.

 

[The39thStep]

Excellent article by Elton John about all this.

Elton John: I learned by touring Europe in the 60s. Young artists need the same chance

Brexit negotiators have screwed up the deal for Britain’s emerging musicians, says entertainer Elton John

www.theguardian.com

And before anyone poo-poos him for being too mainstream/privileged, it's precisely the lesser known, starting out etc musicians he's standing up for.

Still standing

 

[spitfire]

"In fact, if you hate every note I’ve recorded, because your tastes are edgier, weirder and more exploratory – if you think that the Parisian hotdog thrower had a good point – you need to support musicians’ ability to tour. Because if Brexit prevents many new musicians from touring, the only artists who are going to have any meaningful kind of live career are big, august, mainstream artists like me. And, trust me, I don’t want that any more than you do."

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Excellent article by Elton John about all this.

Elton John: I learned by touring Europe in the 60s. Young artists need the same chance

Brexit negotiators have screwed up the deal for Britain’s emerging musicians, says entertainer Elton John

www.theguardian.com

And before anyone poo-poos him for being too mainstream/privileged, it's precisely the lesser known, starting out etc musicians he's standing up for.

He's one of the good guys in the industry

 

[han]

He's one of the good guys in the industry

Yes! And I hear from a friend who has worked with him, that when he gets his bee in a bonnet about something he's unstoppable. He's got such a high profile, too, that I think the government are going to be forced to do something about this dire situation. I think they're debating it in parliament tomorrow, aren't they?

 

[klang]

Yesterday I trained three people who were all over 30, two of them were over 40, all three were new to the sector and had no previous experience or qualifications in care work. Obviously not being musicians they had a huge advantage in learning the new skills involved, because .. err ..



So that's how you see yourself, a CEO? Nothing less than that, nothing more mundane? No way you can imagine being at the bottom of a ladder, it's about expecting to arrive instantly at the top of one? Well that just about says it all for me. I can only hope you find the niche you clearly feel you deserve

 

[mojo pixy]

speak your mind then, littleseb

 

[killer b]

Yesterday I trained three people who were all over 30, two of them were over 40, all three were new to the sector and had no previous experience or qualifications in care work. Obviously not being musicians they had a huge advantage in learning the new skills involved, because .. err ..



So that's how you see yourself, a CEO? Nothing less than that, nothing more mundane? No way you can imagine being at the bottom of a ladder, it's about expecting to arrive instantly at the top of one? Well that just about says it all for me. I can only hope you find the niche you clearly feel you deserve

got to wonder what you're getting out of this tbh

 

[mojo pixy]

Fuck all. It's a discussion.

Actually I don't even understand what you mean. Getting out of what?

 

[MrSki]

It is fucking insane. Probably the most influential country for music over the last sixty years & it is being fucked over.
Small bands rely on trying to get exposure. Supporting better known bands, especially on a euro tour is a massive breakthrough from playing UK venues where you have to hire the venue & get a percentage on the door.
It is more like make the UK shite again.

The Brexit campaign for the referendum was based on a load of lies & scaremongering + financial irregularities & if the UK had a more robust CPS would have seen a few backing vote leave imprisoned.
Mugged off by a load of hedge fund investors not wanting to pay tax.
The UK population has been taken for absolute fools by the tax exile main stream media whose owners 'surprisingly' benefit from this crap.
It is only cos of Covid that there is something to distract people from being ripped off.

Sorry rant over.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is fucking insane. Probably the most influential country for music over the last sixty years & it is being fucked over.
Small bands rely on trying to get exposure. Supporting better known bands, especially on a euro tour is a massive breakthrough from playing UK venues where you have to hire the venue & get a percentage on the door.
It is more like make the UK shite again.

The Brexit campaign for the referendum was based on a load of lies & scaremongering + financial irregularities & if the UK had a more robust CPS would have seen a few backing vote leave imprisoned.
Mugged off by a load of hedge fund investors not wanting to pay tax.
The UK population has been taken for absolute fools by the tax exile main stream media whose owners 'surprisingly' benefit from this crap.
It is only cos of Covid that there is something to distract people from being ripped off.

Sorry rant over.

I think we need more ranting about this. It is fucking insane, all of it.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

He's one of the good guys in the industry

Isn't he just! There was a documentary on him shown recently, knowing not much about him I watched expecting him to be a tossbag prima-donna, how wrong was I!?!? Came over so lovely, honest, passionate. When asked about his syrup he was spoke plainly, "I am a bald man who doesn't like being bald." Add in all he's done for Aids, for gay rights in general, yeah top, top bloke. West London lad, naturally, all the best folk are

 

[editor]

Fuck all. It's a discussion.

Actually I don't even understand what you mean. Getting out of what?

There's a lot you don't understand about touring abroad - and the entire music industry, in fact - as witnessed by your reality-shunning claim that Brexit will somehow break open lucrative opportunities for small bands to play the US, and the inference that any musician who doesn't take up busking can only be lazy or workshy.

 

[mojo pixy]

Inference, now. You probably mean implication, but actually it is your inference and not my implication you're bothered by. I was responding to your eel-like 'argument' strands but I've stopped now. If you want me to stick to facts then I'd ask you do likewise.

'Workshy' ffs. You said it, not me. Pull your flies up.

 

[ska invita]

We were offered reciprocal 90 day visa free access. All the paperwork is done and ready to use instantly. Boris Johnson refused this excellent deal.

this is the key point
why did they refuse this?
any possible reasons other than some kind of cunt brexit beligerence?

Have you considered joining the Musicians Union? If you all stand together you can make your case better.

MU have been campaigning on this for years now
but see what happened above
this is not an oversight, the government are fully conscious of this