Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[TopCat]

I don't know enough about that topic right now to have an informed opinion, which is why I'm not contributing to any current discussions on the topic.
Is that clear enough for you?

However, if I find myself interested enough in the topic to fully read up on it and find an opinion I think is worth expressing, you'll be the first to hear about it in the appropriate thread.

But - again - this is a thread about "Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry" which is something I have informed opinions about and a deep interest in too, seeing as it directly effects my livelihood.

Your attempts to bully me into answering off-topic questions while refusing to engage with the actual theme of the thread really is tiresome.

Bully you. What a joker.

 

[mojo pixy]

Your attempts to bully me

It's pretty shameful for the site owner and chief moderator to accuse a poster who is in the clear minority on a thread of 'bullying' them. Smacks of bullying, actually. Brexit is not bringing out the best in us, that's for sure.

Maybe we need a Two Minutes' Hate thread.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Leaving in itself is a benefit from a leave voter perspective.

You are self entitled because you seem astounded anyone could possibly not agree with you over eu membership. It shows in your posts.

Ok, so as a leave voter, did you just vote to leave because you wanted to leave the EU? You did not weigh up any pros and cons, you just voted brexit because you wanted brexit? You can't suggest one short or long term benefit for yourself or anyone of splitting from the EU. It's a very simple question that you are basically answering with "brexit means brexit".
You can hardly accuse me of being self entitled because I'm "astounded anyone could possibly not agree with you over eu membership" when that's all you've got. . . But beyond that I'm not asking anyone to agree with me over eu membership, I'm asking one person (you) to list one benefit you, me, or anyone can enjoy now that we have left the EU. Bonus point if it's relevant to this thread, and no, you can't just say Britain is better out of the EU because it is out of the EU.
If it's something you are so passionate about there must be a multitude of reasons surely.

 

[bimble]

Have you not noticed yet ATOMIC SUPLEX you will never get an answer to that, you just get people telling you it’s the wrong question.

 

[kabbes]

Have you not noticed yet ATOMIC SUPLEX you will never get an answer to that, you just get people telling you it’s the wrong question.

Oh, come on.

 

[bimble]

Oh, come on.

Yours was the only answer last time and it was, when people voted for brexit and then Brexit happened those people felt happy. Fair enough. I’m not sure it quite answers atomic’s version of the question though.
Anyway I’m lost on a hill and need to preserve battery to find way down . Literally I mean.

 

[The39thStep]

It's pretty shameful for the site owner and chief moderator to accuse a poster who is in the clear minority on a thread of 'bullying' them. Smacks of bullying, actually. Brexit is not bringing out the best in us, that's for sure.

Maybe we need a Two Minutes' Hate thread.

Three times remain posters have accused TopCat of bullying

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[Pickman's model]

Three times remain posters have accused TopCat of bullying

It's always a handy get-out from explaining why their arguments are based on claims which change from one post to the next

 

[editor]

It's always a handy get-out from explaining why their arguments are based on claims which change from one post to the next

Or it's simply true.

And if you're trying to take a cheap shot at me, my arguments have been consistent throughout this thread.

 

[editor]

It's pretty shameful for the site owner and chief moderator to accuse a poster who is in the clear minority on a thread of 'bullying' them. Smacks of bullying, actually. Brexit is not bringing out the best in us, that's for sure.

Maybe we need a Two Minutes' Hate thread.

I'm not 'chief moderator.' There is no such role. I have been posting in a personal capacity throughout this thread, clearly evidenced by the fact that no one has been warned or banned because of their interactions with me. and at no point in this thread have I made any reference to using mod powers.

 

[Pickman's model]

Or it's simply true.

And if you're trying to take a cheap shot at me, my arguments have been consistent throughout this thread.

well they have varied between the certain (eg your post 317, things will get more expensive) and the uncertain (eg it's the uncertainties and likely huge increase in costs which are stopping people booking tours). either you're bringing real issues which really exist to support your claims or you're dealing in hypotheticals. only you claim in one post things are utterly fucked and in another no one knows if things are utterly fucked.

 

[ska invita]

Have you not noticed yet ATOMIC SUPLEX you will never get an answer to that, you just get people telling you it’s the wrong question.

Forgot to say, potential to revolutionise UK farming post CAP-subsidies as well as state aid rules are probably the two biggest potential material gains

 

[editor]

well they have varied between the certain (eg your post 317, things will get more expensive) and the uncertain (eg it's the uncertainties and likely huge increase in costs which are stopping people booking tours). either you're bringing real issues which really exist to support your claims or you're dealing in hypotheticals. only you claim in one post things are utterly fucked and in another no one knows if things are utterly fucked.

Perhaps you missed the link to the DJ who carefully documented the additional costs and red tape he now faces for a single date in Spain? And if things say the same then many in the music industry will be fucked. And that's not just my personal opinion: it's an opinion repeated by industry professionals and bodies.

That is what I've been basing my arguments on, along with the ongoing experience of my own band's booker who is seriously distraught because the uncertainty around Brexit is making her job harder and stressful - something that is being reflected in some venue's reluctance of bands to book tours and for venues to book bands.

So no, I do not think I am coming up with "arguments are based on claims which change from one post to the next." I'm trying to make sense of what the fuck is going on and basing it on whatever new information comes in and my own industry experience.

 

[steeplejack]

In the longer term relationships between artist and venue will become very important.

There is a way of circumventing all this by flying to (say) Vilnius for your weekend gig with your computer and simply being paid in cash.

It limits what you are able to offer in terms of your set but with understanding it is do-able if you have networks in place.

Not helpful at all of course to bands or solo performers or those DJs who have more vinyl than mp3. They remain totally sunk by all this. To say nothing of visual artists, those in an orchestra, theatre companies.

There's no doubt an element of vindictiveness. The creative arts are overwhelmingly anti-Brexit and anti-Tory. That their livelihoods have been thrown into a tailpin by this back-of-a-fag-packet stuff, with the consuming obsession of a far right government with immigration over creative mobility, will be taken, from their perspective, an added bonus.

The creative industries are one of the biggest net contributors to GDP yet it's an industry the Tory party seem determined to destroy.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Whats the 'benefit in itself'? I'm not asking for riches, I'm asking what benefits political freedom from the EU can bring to the people of Britain. You obviously think it is of benefit in some way. What way? How about you? What does it do that pleases or benefits you in some way? How is it making British peoples lives better. Anything?

For instance you can't just say a benefit of Brexit is that we are out of the EU. What benefits does this bring?

I mean it kind of sounds to me like you've got nothing.

You ain't going to get an answer from TC, because there is no upside. None whatsoever.

To say that the upside is 'political freedom' is utter fucking bollocks.

Thanks to the paranoid xenophobia of the 'Little Englanders', many of whom were too fucking thick to understand the ramifications, the rest of us will suffer.

 

[editor]

In the longer term relationships between artist and venue will become very important.

There is a way of circumventing all this by flying to (say) Vilnius for your weekend gig with your computer and simply being paid in cash.

The carnet will still remain a crippling burden, especially when it comes to merchandise, and a lot of venues simply can't pay in cash.

If you mean going in to a country to do a gig 'undercover' so to speak, that can be a huge gamble that could backfire very expensively.

 

[klang]

In the longer term relationships between artist and venue will become very important.

There is a way of circumventing all this by flying to (say) Vilnius for your weekend gig with your computer and simply being paid in cash.

It limits what you are able to offer in terms of your set but with understanding it is do-able if you have networks in place.

to expect / advice people to bend the laws isn't viable. not for (semi) pros anyway.

 

[TopCat]

Three times remain posters have accused TopCat of bullying

We also had Philosophical wanting to meet to beat me up. Little baby

You ain't going to get an answer from TC, because there is no upside. None whatsoever.

To say that the upside is 'political freedom' is utter fucking bollocks.

Thanks to the paranoid xenophobia of the 'Little Englanders', many of whom were too fucking thick to understand the ramifications, the rest of us will suffer.

That’s bit rich from you. You

You ain't going to get an answer from TC, because there is no upside. None whatsoever.

To say that the upside is 'political freedom' is utter fucking bollocks.

Thanks to the paranoid xenophobia of the 'Little Englanders', many of whom were too fucking thick to understand the ramifications, the rest of us will suffer.

You calling me a little englander. I'm laughing at you as it's just pure projection. You are the most typical little englander on the boards. Ravenous supporter of the army and its actions. You love the Queen. Polish up your medals.

 

[The39thStep]

Perhaps you missed the link to the DJ who carefully documented the additional costs and red tape he now faces for a single date in Spain? And if things say the same then many in the music industry will be fucked. And that's not just my personal opinion: it's an opinion repeated by industry professionals and bodies.

That is what I've been basing my arguments on, along with the ongoing experience of my own band's booker who is seriously distraught because the uncertainty around Brexit is making her job harder and stressful - something that is being reflected in some venue's reluctance of bands to book tours and for venues to book bands.

So no, I do not think I am coming up with "arguments are based on claims which change from one post to the next." I'm trying to make sense of what the fuck is going on and basing it on whatever new information comes in and my own industry experience.

The fellow you quoted was in fairness more than just a DJ

 

[The39thStep]

Have you not noticed yet ATOMIC SUPLEX you will never get an answer to that, you just get people telling you it’s the wrong question.

Are you a fan of Terry Christian?

 

[bimble]

Are you a fan of Terry Christian?

Never heard of him, it is the same thing as james O’Brien ?

 

[The39thStep]

to expect / advice people to bend the laws isn't viable. not for (semi) pros anyway.

I think you are right especially with paying the correct amount of tax

 

[editor]

The fellow you quoted was in fairness more than just a DJ

DJ/synth player/tube parper/metalhead/whatever - it all adds up to the same shovelload o'shit if playing in Europe is important to your career.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

The carnet will still remain a crippling burden, especially when it comes to merchandise, and a lot of venues simply can't pay in cash.

If you mean going in to a country to do a gig 'undercover' so to speak, that can be a huge gamble that could backfire very expensively.

Exactly. There are several countries that are going to be right on top of this. In general I've found pre brexit, the EU countries have been all over this moreso than ones like Japan where you do actually need a visa.

 

[editor]

Exactly. There are several countries that are going to be right on top of this. In general I've found pre brexit, the EU countries have been all over this moreso than ones like Japan where you do actually need a visa.

Years ago, I had a thoroughly obscure American singer/songwriter contact me just before he was flying over to London. I said sure, but it was too late to change my listings as my gig was a day away.

He was coming on holiday to the UK but his fried had arranged a small gig in a pub for him while he we was over there. He got stopped at customs and when they found his bag of self-printed CDs they looked him up on line. They found the listing, decided that he was coming here to work illegally and sent him back on the next plane. I think he said he wasn't even getting paid for the gig too.

Post Brexit, musicians would be mad to gamble on gigging or touring in Europe without the right paperwork.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Years ago, I had a thoroughly obscure American singer/songwriter contact me just before he was flying over to London. I said sure, but it was too late to change my listings as my gig was a day away.

He was coming on holiday to the UK but his fried had arranged a small gig in a pub for him while he we was over there. He got stopped at customs and when they found his bag of self-printed CDs they looked him up on line. They found the listing, decided that he was coming here to work illegally and sent him back on the next plane. I think he said he wasn't even getting paid for the gig too.

Post Brexit, musicians would be mad to gamble on gigging or touring in Europe without the right paperwork.

I used to gift wrap merch and pedals as presents. Probably would not have worked if I had been stopped at customs though. Luckily I have guitars and stuff in Japan if I ever get to go back.

Once you are caught though and on the list you are a bit double fucked. Not worth it for an EU tour. Even with better pay, free flights and accommodation, it's generally just a free holiday/band promotion with some merch for extra cash. It's not going to be worth any EU promoters while buying you some tickets and chancing it.

 

[editor]

I used to gift wrap merch and pedals as presents. Probably would not have worked if I had been stopped at customs though. Luckily I have guitars and stuff in Japan if I ever get to go back.

The only reason our US tour miraculously went into profit was because of the really really healthy merch sales. We would have looked like Santa if we'd gift wrapped it all though - and even then there's still a real risk you'll get caught at customs.

One thing that is possible is to try and get the merch made in the country you're playing and pick it up there, but there's plenty that could go wrong with that, and fucking up your merch could be really costly.

 

[TopCat]

Worldwide free movement for musicians to ply their trade? Is that’s what’s wanted?

 

[TopCat]

Worldwide free movement for musicians to ply their trade? Is that’s what’s wanted?

Plus no taxes on merchandise sales and retain the ability to sign on?