Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[editor]

Plus all the venues you DJ at are all shut for the foreseeable. Not because of brexit.

Good job I wasn't blaming my lack of London DJ gigs on Brexit

Are you going to finally explain what you were on about with this weird stuff about my 'mates problems with guitar picks.'

 

[editor]

Sigh.

This is a waste of time.

 

[TopCat]

Good job I wasn't blaming my lack of London DJ gigs on Brexit

Are you going to finally explain what you were on about with this weird stuff about my 'mates problems with guitar picks.'

You quoted , at length another musician who was bemoaning costs. Clear? I will leave you on this thread. I think brexit is about far more than the music industry and thankfully we have two threads with a bit more breadth.

 

[andysays]

You're so busy with your 'remoaner' kneejerk responses, you're not even reading what's in my posts now.

I'll try one last time: it's not unusual for bands to book European tours, many months - and sometimes over a year - in advance.

Most industries are planning ahead to a time when Covid will be under control, at least. HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR BREXIT, we would be doing just that, and the band would be booking advance European shows and tours for the end of this year and the next.

But that's not happening, and that's NOT because of Covid. It's because of the uncertainty surrounding post-Brexit red tape and hugely increased costs.

All this is documented right here. Have a read instead of trying to shout over people who are in an industry you clearly know little about.

The reality of Brexit to Musicians - Scanner

The reality and challenges of trying to play one show in Spain with Brexit forcing your hand

scannerdot.com

With or without Brexit, anyone booking a tour of anywhere at the moment, even if it's for a year in the future, is gambling on the Covid situation being completely transformed by then, and frankly, they're likely to lose.

I understand you and many others are upset about losing your livelihood and I hope you find a way of getting some of it back as soon as realistically possible, but Covid is the immediate cause of that, not Brexit

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Article 16. Last Friday. The EU shafted Ireland.
Did you not read about it in the news?

You know it is possible to think Brexit is a staggeringly shit act of economic and social harm, whilst simultaneously disliking various aspects of the EU?

Just a thought like.

 

[editor]

With or without Brexit, anyone booking a tour of anywhere at the moment, even if it's for a year in the future, is gambling on the Covid situation being completely transformed by then, and frankly, they're likely to lose.

Yes they are. But that's what bands and venues have to do because of the nature of the industry. And that's why if you look through the music mags, you'll see plenty of big bands have already booked major tours from late autumn onwards.

And if you'd like to talk to promoters, agencies, bands and industry professionals and ask them if Brexit is going to make things considerably worse for smaller bands looking to tour Europe - whenever that is - they will almost certainly say it is.

And at no point have I ever, ever stated that Brexit is causing the current issues in my work because it's blatantly obvious that Covid is the cause of that. But - as I've explained - I'm already feeling the pain because it looks like the additional costs and red tape of Brexit will make some future tours uneconomic.

 

[TopCat]

You know it is possible to think Brexit is a staggeringly shit act of economic and social harm, whilst simultaneously disliking various aspects of the EU?

Just a thought like.

Of course. But given all its faults that you recognise, you would prefer to still be in.
But ignoring the faults of the EU just allows EU governments and the EU hierarchy to make huge fuckups without criticism.
It’s a UK thing. Lots of remainers on mainland Europe campaign for reform. Not here though. Like last Friday you just shut up for a few days then resurrect the same record again.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I just did. You might not see it as a benefit but thankfully you are a minority view.

It doesn't look like it's a minority view at all. . . but besides the fact that it's not a minority view and besides the fact that it's not strictly true statement, what benefits does political freedom from the EU bring to this situation (or any) exactly? Name one.

 

[TopCat]

It doesn't look like it's a minority view at all. . . but besides the fact that it's not a minority view and besides the fact that it's not strictly true statement, what benefits does political freedom from the EU bring to this situation (or any) exactly? Name one.

It’s a benefit in-itself. You just come across like someone arguing against the end of colonialism because it never made anyone richer. You will fully miss the point.

 

[killer b]

There's gigs and tours booked all over the country - and presumably all across europe - from May onwards. May might be reaching a bit, but I'm fairly confident there'll be live music from the summer in some form. The venues certainly aren't shut for the forseeable - they're forseeing being open from the summer.

 

[killer b]

Also worth noting that lots of venues here - and again we can presume on the continent - are booking shows well into next year, even smaller places which would normally fill their slots with less notice - there won't be as many places available for UK band to play even if this does get sorted by the time they're able to tour again.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

It’s a benefit in-itself. You just come across like someone arguing against the end of colonialism because it never made anyone richer. You will fully miss the point.

Whats the 'benefit in itself'? I'm not asking for riches, I'm asking what benefits political freedom from the EU can bring to the people of Britain. You obviously think it is of benefit in some way. What way? How about you? What does it do that pleases or benefits you in some way? How is it making British peoples lives better. Anything?

For instance you can't just say a benefit of Brexit is that we are out of the EU. What benefits does this bring?

I mean it kind of sounds to me like you've got nothing.

 

[TopCat]

I predict some arrangements will be made before the end of COVID that will facilitate musicians and journalists (they were arguing for special status this week) working in the EU.

 

[ska invita]

It’s a benefit in-itself. You just come across like someone arguing against the end of colonialism because it never made anyone richer. You will fully miss the point.

come on now, we're talking about people working in the wider music business, not slave owners ffs

just the slightest acknowledgement that workers are having their working life impacted negatively - a bit of workers sympathy if not solidarity - wouldn't go amiss here, whatever else there is to talk about.

 

[TopCat]

come on now, we're talking about people working in the wider music business, not slave owners ffs

just the slightest acknowledgement that workers are having their working life impacted negatively - a bit of workers sympathy if not solidarity - wouldn't go amiss here, whatever else there is to talk about.

Well did you make the “slightest acknowledgement “ regarding the EU shafting the Irish last week? You came out with some rubbish about nothing happened. You diminished yourself doing so.

 

[ska invita]

Well did you make the “slightest acknowledgement “ regarding the EU shafting the Irish last week? You came out with some rubbish about nothing happened. You diminished yourself doing so.

1 im under no illusions how the EU commission operate, and the arrogance with which they do it

2 i still dont really see whats happened there. people are dying in huge numbers across europe and theres a life or death panic about getting a vaccine out to the most vulnerable as soon as possible - that is the context. The EU backed down but if they didn't what would have actually happened? i did ask but didn't get an answer. I genuinely don't know.
How is Ireland shafted? What impact has it actually had on anyone in Ireland?

The Troikas (continued?) attempts to privatise water in Ireland - that's an example of Ireland really being properly shafted by the EU. I do understand the dynamic. But I don't get the excitement over this vaccine thing.

Brexit conversations have deteriorated once again into belligerent and entrenched take a side point scoring. I'm not interested in that. I'm particularly interested about negative impacts its having on my friends and family (music related and scottish fishing), but workers in general.
At the same time I'm interested if there really will be long term political benefits: state aid is a key one. I really hope it is worth it, i genuinely do.
I'm worried about deregulation.
I'm worried about the fate of this still approximated tens of thousands EU citizens whose status will become illegal in July and how the government will deal with them.


Brexit has happened, there's no need to bully people into saying how bad the EU is - that fight is done.
Can we get back to dealing with the reality we're faced with?
First port of call is supporting people in those areas where their livelihoods are affected. Calling them apologists for colonialism is not that.

 

[editor]

come on now, we're talking about people working in the wider music business, not slave owners ffs

just the slightest acknowledgement that workers are having their working life impacted negatively - a bit of workers sympathy if not solidarity - wouldn't go amiss here, whatever else there is to talk about.

Absolutely. As it stands - and I have zero faith in this government renegotiating better terms any time soon - a lot of musicians, DDJs, bands, venues, promoters, sound crew etc are going to find themselves unable to make a living and unable to feed their families.

Covid has been bad enough, but Brexit just ramps up an extra level misery for people who rely on European tours, and it's something Top Cat sadly seems unable to scrape up a single ounce of empathy for.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Well did you make the “slightest acknowledgement “ regarding the EU shafting the Irish last week? You came out with some rubbish about nothing happened. You diminished yourself doing so.

Not me. Get your quotes right. Quite the right person and answer my question.

 

[TopCat]

Not me. Get your quotes right. Quite the right person and answer my question.

Sorry I misread. What was your view on last Fridays EU action?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Sorry I misread. What was your view on last Fridays EU action?

No. You didn't misread, you quoted me with someone else's words. You didn't answer my question. Sounds like you don't have an answer.

What benefits do political freedom from the EU can bring to the people of Britain? You obviously think it is of benefit in some way, in what way?
How about you? What does it do that pleases or benefits you? How is it making British peoples lives better. Anything?

You can't just say a benefit of Brexit is that we are out of the EU. What benefits does this bring?

It sounds to me like you've got nothing. You haven't listed one single thing, let alone a thing that is relevant to this thread.

 

[TopCat]

No. You didn't misread, you quoted me with someone else's words. You didn't answer my question. Sounds like you don't have an answer.

What benefits do political freedom from the EU can bring to the people of Britain? You obviously think it is of benefit in some way, in what way?
How about you? What does it do that pleases or benefits you? How is it making British peoples lives better. Anything?

You can't just say a benefit of Brexit is that we are out of the EU. What benefits does this bring?

It sounds to me like you've got nothing. You haven't listed one single thing, let alone a thing that is relevant to this thread.

You talk out of your self entitled arse. Simply asserting you are right repeatedly.
I and all the leave voters I know are perfectly aware of the political benefit of leaving the EU. We wanted out for political reasons. We are out. It’s a success.
We won’t be going back.[/QUOTE]

 

[editor]

You talk out of your self entitled arse.

Instead of resorting to ad hominems, why not answer his question? It's an entirely reasonable one.
And why is he 'self entitled'?

 

[TopCat]

Instead of resorting to ad hominems, why not answer his question? It's an entirely reasonable one.
And why is he 'self entitled'?

Why not answer the questions I put to you?

How did you feel last Friday over the EU’s actions? You keep ducking it and all the other questions put to you. It’s a bit rich when you won’t respond to make demands of me.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

You talk out of your self entitled arse. Simply asserting you are right repeatedly.
I and all the leave voters I know are perfectly aware of the political benefit of leaving the EU. We wanted out for political reasons. We are out. It’s a success.
We won’t be going back.

Why am I self entitled exactly?

If you and all the leave voters are so 'perfectly aware' of the benefits of leaving the EU can you just list one or two of those benefits please? I've not asked for a something that is necessarily a benefit to me personally.
I mean you are aware so 'perfectly' it can't be that hard to put into words can it.
If possible make it relevant to this actual thread, but honestly anything will do.

 

[TopCat]

Why am I self entitled exactly?

If you and all the leave voters are so 'perfectly aware' of the benefits of leaving the EU can you just list one or two of those benefits please? I've not asked for a something that is necessarily a benefit to me personally.
I mean you are aware so 'perfectly' it can't be that hard to put into words can it.
If possible make it relevant to this actual thread, but honestly anything will do.

Leaving in itself is a benefit from a leave voter perspective.

You are self entitled because you seem astounded anyone could possibly not agree with you over eu membership. It shows in your posts.

 

[editor]

Why not answer the questions I put to you?

How did you feel last Friday over the EU’s actions? You keep ducking it and all the other questions put to you. It’s a bit rich when you won’t respond to make demands of me.

Stop trying to change the subject and avoid responding to questions you're clearly unable or too embarrassed to answer.

The title of this thread is "Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry." I'm a musician. This affects me so that's what I want to talk about. If I want to talk about the EU's actions on Friday, I'll go to the relevant thread.

Oh, and any chance of you finally explaining what your weird comment about my 'mate's guitar picks' was all about? Thanks.

 

[editor]

You talk out of your self entitled arse. Simply asserting you are right repeatedly.
I and all the leave voters I know are perfectly aware of the political benefit of leaving the EU. We wanted out for political reasons. We are out. It’s a success.
We won’t be going back.

So you wanted the careers of touring musicians, DJs, promoters, venues etc to get shafted by Brexit, and you feel that what we've got now is a successful outcome?

 

[TopCat]

So you wanted the careers of touring musicians, DJs, promoters, venues etc to get shafted by Brexit, and you feel that what we've got now is a successful outcome?

Before you ask yet more loaded questions why don’t you answer the one about the EU and the Irish? You keep ducking it. Quack.

 

[ddraig]

Culture secretary Oliver Dowden calls EU touring barriers 'absurd'

Oliver Dowden says the obstacles facing UK musicians in Europe are "absurd and self-defeating".

www.bbc.co.uk

'Treated like children'
Opera singer Anna Patalong said that, prior to the Covid-19 pandemic, working in other European countries accounted for "50% of my income" - earnings which are now at risk.
She said the lack of a visa waiver meant "all the artists in the UK are now in a worse position than musicians in the Congo and Columbia".
Dance musician Yousef said it was "pretty standard" for DJs like himself to play in two or three European countries in one weekend. Having to arrange permits for each gig would make his career "near impossible and unbelievably expensive", he said.

He felt musicians were "just not taken seriously" by the government, adding: "We're treated as if we're children playing in the toy room, but that's not the case at all.
"It's a very serious business run by hard-working music enthusiasts who don't ask for any support under normal circumstances."

Colombia not Columbia

 

[editor]

Before you ask yet more loaded questions why don’t you answer the one about the EU and the Irish? You keep ducking it. Quack.

I don't know enough about that topic right now to have an informed opinion, which is why I'm not contributing to any current discussions on the topic.
Is that clear enough for you?

However, if I find myself interested enough in the topic to fully read up on it and find an opinion I think is worth expressing, you'll be the first to hear about it in the appropriate thread.

But - again - this is a thread about "Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry" which is something I have informed opinions about and a deep interest in too, seeing as it directly effects my livelihood.

Your attempts to bully me into answering off-topic questions while refusing to engage with the actual theme of the thread really is tiresome.