equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Which is why it's a bit wank. Just use 100% beyond meat in the burger patty and be done with it.
BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff
- Thread starter treelover
- Start date
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
They're discriminatory towards their employees, but I guess opening one vegan pub makes them great...
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Fair play. Surely we can all agree it's a bit nathan barley thoughWell, graciously admit the national newspaper I took that from may have misinformed.
Looks like I was wrong (you don't hear that often here do you??)Always happy to admit that...
There's at least three of the nationals that describe is as two burgers - meat and vegan.
I might write to them and suggest that the two patty idea is a better one.
While not still carrying as much weight, still think it is a positive move for the vegan curious myself. But then we don't all agree here do we?
discobastard
Well-Known Member
Out of eight burgers they serve, three are vegan. What is wrong with one that is a hybrid (whether it was misreported and caused confusion or not? It can still be a way for the vegan curious to eat less meat and possibly go full vegan. I'm not clear on what the objection is?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I suspect it's a mixed patty because they can keep the costs down by still using meat. The beyond Meat stuff isn't cheap.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
What a ridiculous thing to say. I never said it made them great, I said 'not all bad'.
They had a high profile issue with an employee, the details of which are up there. You seem to be suggesting they are discriminatory to all their employees. Evidence? Proportionality?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Because if they're going to the trouble to make every other item in the burger vegan, why not the burger as well?
Christ, it's not like vegan food requires a gateway item before going 'full vegan' as you put it. A burger with meat in it is not a vegan burger, even if everything else is vegan in it.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
THREE OF EIGHT BURGERS THEY SERVE ARE VEGAN (EXCLUDING THIS ONE). That doesn't suggest that they are doing it to save money. You're not prepared to accept the argument that it might help some of the vegan curious over the line, are you? Why is that?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
In my experience, it's symptomatic if a wider culture issue and unlikely to be limited to a single instance.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
People are still allowed a choice aren't they? If I understand you right, you're saying that all their burgers should be vegan, is that it? I'm not quite clear on your going in point here.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
You're not prepared to accept Brewdog are doing this for anything other than altruistic reasons. Why is that?
discobastard
Well-Known Member
In your experience of other businesses maybe.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that a hybrid burger is a waste of time.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
You haven't answered quite an important question.
Though, respectfully I will answer yours. I'm not stupid enough to believe that Brewdog are doing this for purely altruistic reasons, very few businesses do. But some businesses aim to do things that will benefit themselves, their customers, and wider society. Even if it is in a small way.
A business that caters better to vegans gives vegans better choice (whether they want to drink in Brewdog pubs or not - I am sure many do). Which means they will attract more vegan customers.
95% of their beers are vegan I just read btw.
You're putting forward entirely binary arguments and the world doesn't work like that.
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discobastard
Well-Known Member
For whom? And in what way?
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Oh, gosh, doesn't it? Thank you so much for pointing that out to me.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
If someone wants to try vegan food, they will try vegan food. It's like someone who has meat based meals with vegetables included saying they eat vegan about half the time, because of the vegetables.
Vegans aren't about to start eating hybrid burgers and claim they're mostly vegan.
So eating it is a waste of time.
Someone will eat one and persuade themselves that because they ate half a patty less of meat, they saved the planet. They didn't.
Vegans aren't about to start eating hybrid burgers and claim they're mostly vegan.
So eating it is a waste of time.
Someone will eat one and persuade themselves that because they ate half a patty less of meat, they saved the planet. They didn't.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
I eat meat. I have tried vegan food. It's OK. I really like the Leon vegan burger and now choose that instead of the chicken one. If I were to eat in a Brewdog pub, I would be tempted to try this. It is all reconditioning me about the default to meat and being open to vegan food. I now eat a lot less meat than I did a year ago. It all helps, and I may reduce my meat intake even more. So in my opinion, it is a positive thing.
To say that it is about people eating half vegetables saying they are half vegan is nonsense. Nobody thinks like that and to suggest that this burger is doing that seems like an odd conclusion to come to, but you are welcome to come to that conclusion.
This has nothing to do with vegans eating hybrid burgers and I suspect you know that. Do you think they are trying to convert vegans back to meat? THat does vegans a disservices I think. It is about the point above. Which IMO is not a waste of time.
I very much doubt somebody will eat this and convince themselves they 'saved the planet' (see point about hotels and towels). It is about small and incremental changes.
Anyway, we aren't going to agree, and it is after all just a bunch of people arguing on the internet. Have a lovely rest of the evening.
I'm vegetarian (and for ever 
-- I was brought up as) and I hardly ever eat veggie or vegan burgers -- I simply can't be doing with imitation meat ....
Just saying like
-- I was brought up as) and I hardly ever eat veggie or vegan burgers -- I simply can't be doing with imitation meat ....Just saying like
Though at the moment it’s more like the Kübler Ross model, and at the moment we are still in “denial”
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
People have psychological relationships with food that can be hard to change. This is why we see both problematic overeating and problematic undereating associating with all sorts of mental health issues. Your '12 steps' comment is closer to the mark than you think, because food activates the same reward circuits in the brain that lead people into chemical and behavioural addictions.
I believe there's a balance to be struck between respecting the attachments and associations people may have have with certain foods and tackling the consequences of producing those foods. Whether or not you care about the fact that roast chicken reminds someone of their dear departed mum, the fact is they're not likely to stop eating it if all anyone does is make them feel like a cunt about it.
I don't think anyone's suggesting putting vegan bits on a non-vegan meal (except these ludicrous arseholes at brewdog) but rather eating completely vegan meals sometimes, then more often, then nearly always, then always. Each step in that process represents a quantifiable improvement in terms of animal welfare and environmental impact, and is easier than going straight from level zero to level four.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I'm vegetarian (and for ever
Just saying like
Well if you've never had to break an existing attachment to meaty foods, you are probably not in a great position to tell others how they should do it.
HTH
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
They are absolutely all bad. Refraining from doing one bad thing in one particular location doesn't change the fact that their basic mode of existence is cancerous.
discobastard
Well-Known Member
Can you outline this to me in rational terms? And why so in comparison to other similar businesses?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Their business model is all about marketing and branding over quality. The whole notion of 'craft beer' is based on an unsubstantiated implication that a bunch of trust fund babies somehow put more expertise and attention into making beer than breweries, big and small, who have been doing what they do for centuries.
Brewdog are expansionist, above and beyond normal capitalist enterprises, and they use spurious crowdfunding ventures to fuel this expansion. They are shameless in their appropriation of cultural tropes, not least 'punk', that they have less than nothing to do with.
And ultimately their beer is filth and their pubs are fucking horrid barns full of faux-authenticity and braying arseholes. For every one that opens a real pub closes its doors somewhere.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You're right of course, and I think most watchers are simply enjoying the thrombo throwing and hypocrisy displays.Everything that has been used to attack Brewdog on this topic has also been used to defend vegan products at some point. A close parallel is "vegan meat products". The thrombo brigade have defended vegan sausages and the like, on the basis that they allow new-ish vegans to still participate in the 'culture' around meat eating and overcome psychological dependencies without actually eating meat. Yet those same people reject Disco's argument that a gradual reduction in meat could also be helpful to some and that the opposite might work too.
Check out the hypocrisy going on here with regards to "vegan bacon" - Bullshit product of marketing by huge corporates? Fuck yeah! But that gets forgotten and a frequent refrain we'll hear from the thrombos in its defence is "why does anyone give a fuck about what anyone else eats?" However they're very short of space in affording others the same courtesy, aren't they!
Do a seach on "vegan meat products" on these boards and you'll find pages of spirited defences of these things by the very same people who are chucking their toys around over Brewdog's "hybrid burger". In fact, the very first result of that search is this thread. A defence of a 'bleeding no-meat burger' marketed by that famous bastion of environmental concern and bulwark of workers rights, Air New Zealand!
You couldn't make it up!
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What does 'faux-authenticity' mean? Brewdog bars are all pretty modern and bland IME. About as faux-authentic as Macdonalds.
(fwiw I think the craft beer trend that Brewdog have been a big part of spearheading has actually been a shot in the arm for decent boozers - the ongoing rash of closures of pubs in recent years is to do with much wider social changes and inflexible giant pubcos)
(fwiw I think the craft beer trend that Brewdog have been a big part of spearheading has actually been a shot in the arm for decent boozers - the ongoing rash of closures of pubs in recent years is to do with much wider social changes and inflexible giant pubcos)
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
We've been here. No matter how much you try to inflate one very complex case into being their corporate philosphy, people are going to realise you're bullshitting.
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