Border Farce

[klang]

These mostly fit young men are paying about a thousand quid to criminals to get on a dinghy

I know a rich bloke who paid a couple of million for a small yacht that to this day he only sailed once but never even made it to France.

 

[krtek a houby]

No mask, these are my views, I'm learning that when someone presents a view not in line with the herd mentality here, they are unikely to get any measured debate
It's quite pathetic and a fine example of how sheeple are most at home in an Echo chamber, I'm quite dissapointed

Fuck off to the Daily Heil, then.

 

[Ax^]

Priti Patel is on the case:



Tbf, she’s got a point as crossing the channel in a dinghy is lethal.

you can fuck off as well ya cunt

stick these 2 wankers in a dingy and push them out to sea

 

[krtek a houby]

You made an obvious homophobic remark ffs.

Oh, look. Marty1's gotcha moment.

You can fuck off, too.

 

[existentialist]

Oh, look. Marty1's gotcha moment.

You can fuck off, too.

Marty has lots of gotcha moments. Except that what he gotchas is almost always not-the-point.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm quite dissapointed

No you aren’t.

But let’s have a reasoned debate, then. I’ll start you off with my position: human beings have always migrated since our species began. The Earth is our home. Passports are just paperwork that bureaucracy generates to keep itself busy. I really don’t understand some people’s preoccupation with who gets to live where.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I find it interesting that you know what £100m looks like when it's being used by the french govt to protect the border and you know for a fact that we aren't getting value for money. You must be an expert in these things, yes?

If memory serves the UK pays for the Police au Frontieres in Calais whose activities are mostly limited to the port itself. According to Calais lore they periodically give themselves the night off, letting maybe a couple of hundred people get through the port unchallenged. This is done to prevent the numbers of people in the surrounding area from rising indefinitely. The UK also pays for security infrastructure like fences etc. If this support was withdrawn and the port was no longer guarded then the numbers crossing might not actually increase, but the period of time those people had to spend in festering shanty towns at the mercy of both the CRS and the smuggling gangs might be reduced or eliminated altogether. Calais is a bottleneck, not a barrier. A lot of really fucking terrible people profit from that situation, from criminal gangs to carpetbagging French authorities to populist British politicians, and that is why it endures.

In short, no we're not getting 'value for money' by any possible standard but that's a feature, not a bug.

 

[BassJunkie]

The incompetent (to put it politely) government's behaviour has lead to Tens Of Thousands of extra deaths, but look over there - "economic migrants".

70,000 people have fucking died, and we haven't got room for a few hundred migrants?!?

 

[Flavour]

Hey Marty1 why don't you set up a South Coast Area Beach Defense team? With the big initials "SCABD" on your jackets you can then reuse them if there ever a strike at Amazon.

 

[existentialist]

Hey Marty1 why don't you set up a South Coast Area Beach Defense team? With the big initials "SCABD" on your jackets you can then reuse them if there ever a strike at Amazon.

I don't think he's actually interested in doing anything about the issue; I think he just likes to use it to further his rather dubious agenda.

To misquote Voltaire: "If illegal economic migrants didn't exist to come over here, steal our jobs and claim our benefits, we'd have to invent them"

 

[Marty1]

No you aren’t.

But let’s have a reasoned debate, then. I’ll start you off with my position: human beings have always migrated since our species began. The Earth is our home. Passports are just paperwork that bureaucracy generates to keep itself busy. I really don’t understand some people’s preoccupation with who gets to live where.

And you support illegal immigration that benefits people smugglers? Hey - people smugglers are human beings too - amirite bro?

 

[danny la rouge]

And you support illegal immigration that benefits people smugglers? Hey - people smugglers are human beings too - amirite bro?

“Illegal” is an arbitrary bureaucratic designation. I was in a friend’s garden last night and watched while he and another friend smoked an illegal drug that he paid a criminal for, and I did nothing to prevent it.

 

[two sheds]

And you support illegal immigration that benefits people smugglers? Hey - people smugglers are human beings too - amirite bro?

That's your reasoned debate is it?

 

[MickiQ]

The utter vacuity of this 'France should do more...' stuff is incredible: if there were 10,000 refugees/migrants camped out in Kent who had made it clear that they wanted to go to France, would we go to any great lengths to stop them just because France asked us to?

No, we'd not - we'd give them a picnic and a voucher for a dinghy...

No we would give a contract to one of BoZo's dodgy mates to provide them with dinghies, probably Seaborne Freight (UK) Ltd

 

[Marty1]

“Illegal” is an arbitrary bureaucratic designation. I was in a friend’s garden last night and watched while he and another friend smoked an illegal drug that he paid a criminal for, and I did nothing to prevent it.

‘Illegal’ provides cash incentives for people smugglers to make huge profits - they don’t give a fuck about the safety or welfare of these people bobbing about on the North Sea.

Would you be happy to put your family in one of these dinghy’s?

 

[brogdale]

Always fascinating to see those allied with the ideological zeal attached to the freedom of movement of capital in 'free markets' balk at similar consideration for labour. Belief in the free market would surely suggest that labour never requires any government intervention; if and when any economic deterioration resulted from over-population, that would offer the hidden hand of dissuasion.

 

[danny la rouge]

‘Illegal’ provides cash incentives for people smugglers to make huge profits - they don’t give a fuck about the safety or welfare of these people bobbing about on the North Sea.

Would you be happy to put your family in one of these dinghy’s?

I’d rather people came and went freely. Just as I’d rather cannabis users didn’t have to fund gangsters in order to enjoy their recreational pursuit.

 

[platinumsage]

Let's overdo the anti-climate change geoengineering and then people can walk here via Doggerland. There'd be more land for housing, an end to claims of being an "overcrowded island", less shadowing of Russian naval ships, easy maintenance of previously offshore windfarms, no need to bother with the Channel Tunnel, and fewer fishing rights to get excited about.

 

[Marty1]

To misquote Voltaire: "If illegal economic migrants didn't exist to come over here, steal our jobs and claim our benefits, we'd have to invent them

I work alongside colleagues from every corner of the globe working effectively as a team. Foreign colleagues have all entered the U.K. legally and pay their taxes like everyone else and you may be surprised to hear that it’s those workers that hold the strongest views on illegal immigrants.

 

[brogdale]

I work alongside colleagues from every corner of the globe working effectively as a team. Foreign colleagues have all entered the U.K. legally and pay their taxes like everyone else and you may be surprised to hear that it’s those workers that hold the strongest views on illegal immigrants.

And do you challenge such negative solidarity derived from false consciousness?

 

[maomao]

And do you challenge such negative solidarity derived from false consciousness?

It's not even true. I just checked with a legal immigrant and she couldn't give a shit.

 

[planetgeli]

Being a pervert I went to the daily mail and looked at the top rated comments under the picture of the invading rubber dingy yesterday and it was exactly as you’d expect, all clamouring for Boris to send the navy to sink the lot of them etc. All freethinkers like bollox.

Probably the same people who've been going around the last few weeks claiming #AllLivesMatterunless they're in a dinghy

 

[existentialist]

I work alongside colleagues from every corner of the globe working effectively as a team. Foreign colleagues have all entered the U.K. legally and pay their taxes like everyone else and you may be surprised to hear that it’s those workers that hold the strongest views on illegal immigrants.

No, it doesn't surprise me at all. Racism isn't a uniquely white phenomenon.

But if, instead of focusing on labels - "illegal" - and superficialities, you took just a tiny look at where these people have come from, and why, you'd note some interesting things. One of which is that they are overwhelmingly fleeing from collapsed societies - societies destroyed by wars and failures which, in very large part, we or our allies had a part in creating.

This constant attempt by the right to paint anyone who is willing to risk their lives, and everything they own, on an attempt to find a safe place to live is disingenuous, poisonous, and tarnishes everyone - yes, even you, Marty1 - who invokes it as a justification for putting them in even more peril.

If we stopped fucking around with other people's countries, we might find - given 30 years or so - that those countries again became places where the people born there, grew up there, have families and connections there, sometimes successful businesses there, might prefer to stay than flee across seas and hostile countries, to find somewhere safe to live.

But I suspect that probably falls outside your 15 second attention span.

 

[maomao]

No, it doesn't surprise me at all. Racism isn't a uniquely white phenomenon.

It would surprise me. I would say most people I've known in my life in the UK, certainly professionally, have been immigrants and I can't remember more than one or two conversations on the subject. 99% of people I've met who had 'strong views' about immigration have been white and openly racist. It's just a line that allows him to pursue a racist argument while dodging accusations of racism. It's made up bollocks.

 

[Flavour]

The Law is the Law!!!!

 

[Marty1]

to paint anyone who is willing to risk their lives, and everything they own, on an attempt to find a safe place to live is disingenuous, poisonous, and tarnishes everyone - yes, even you, Marty1 - who invokes it as a justification for putting them in even more peril.

Nope. My foreign work colleagues come from the likes of Poland, Hungary, Romania, Caribbean Islands etc and don’t criticise genuine asylum seekers.

Paying people smugglers to jump in a dinghy from French shores is not escaping from a war torn country.

 

[mod]

If any of those people are from Iraq (or any of the countries we've royally fucked over) they ought to be given a red carpet welcome, given free flats and and a healthy compensation payment with a grovelling apology from Tony Blair.

Maybe watch this series if you are unsure what I'm talking about....

Once Upon a Time in Iraq - Series 1: 1. War

Documentary series. As war began, many Iraqis were hopeful. Ahmed Al Bashir, now a famous comedian, remembers practising his English with US troops before the realities of occupation became clear.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[existentialist]

Nope. My foreign work colleagues come from the likes of Poland, Hungary, Romania, Caribbean Islands etc and don’t criticise genuine asylum seekers.

Paying people smugglers to jump in a dinghy from French shores is not escaping from a war torn country.

And you'd be the expert on this, would you? With your finely-graded distinctions between "deserving" and "undeserving" refugees?

ETA: and I wasn't talking about your work colleagues in any case - I was talking about the people who languish in Calais, or are trying to cross seas in unsuitable craft. But of course you knew that.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Nope. My foreign work colleagues come from the likes of Poland, Hungary, Romania, Caribbean Islands etc and don’t criticise genuine asylum seekers.

Paying people smugglers to jump in a dinghy from French shores is not escaping from a war torn country.

Exactly what difference does it make to you where anyone loves?

ETA same question to Bollox

 

[Marty1]

If any of those people are from Iraq (or any of the countries we've royally fucked over) they ought to be given a red carpet welcome, given free flats and and a healthy compensation payment with a grovelling apology from Tony Blair.

Maybe watch this series if you are unsure what I'm talking about....

Once Upon a Time in Iraq - Series 1: 1. War

Documentary series. As war began, many Iraqis were hopeful. Ahmed Al Bashir, now a famous comedian, remembers practising his English with US troops before the realities of occupation became clear.

www.bbc.co.uk

You can also add Libya that was destroyed by Obama, Hillary Clinton et al.