Why can't we just have a 'standard' border in Northern Ireland re: Brexit

[krtek a houby]

I'm sorry but I think your unicorn has scarpered

I also believe that one day we'll see Korean unification as well as Cyprus. Under what terms and on what path will be followed, I don't know. But I'd happily trade my tired ass in for a shiny unicorn. Some good has to come out of all the turmoil and madness that's in the world.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I also believe that one day we'll see Korean unification as well as Cyprus. Under what terms and on what path will be followed, I don't know. But I'd happily trade my tired ass in for a shiny unicorn. Some good has to come out of all the turmoil and madness that's in the world.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but do you honestly believe that those sash wearing, flute wielding wankers want to be a part of anything? (Apart from hatred)

 

[krtek a houby]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but do you honestly believe that those sash wearing, flute wielding wankers want to be a part of anything? (Apart from hatred)

I have to believe that there's hope. I can't believe that the loyalists and hardcore crowd represent all protestant people in NI/6 counties.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I have to believe that there's hope. I can't believe that the loyalists and hardcore crowd represent all protestant people in NI/6 counties.

I wish that could happen, too.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

42% of people in the North want a united Ireland - poll

42% of people in NI want a united Ireland. As of May* this year.
Interesting.

Brexit would boost support for united Ireland, poll finds

Brexit would boost support for a united Ireland. .to 52%..according to another survey.

And the most interesting stat..
"In the most recent elections, unionists have been scoring less than 50 per cent of the vote for the first time in Northern Ireland’s history, a result in line with recent polls"
Polls suggest gradual shift to united Ireland

I'm feeling a lot more positive about NI moving towards s united Ireland. Younger people in NI are not as motivated towards sectarianism. They've lived with peace and like it. They're not as tied to hardline Unionism or indeed hardline Republicanism. But they do see that Eire has as good a standard of living as the UK and that in actuality there is very little to differentiate between them. They've grown up with a wider world view and connection to Europe.

I think it will happen in my lifetime. As for unionists..there were plenty living in all parts of Ireland who adapted through the early 20th century. The hardline unionists in NI will just fade out. They dont have power and control in society anymore. And they're banging an old drum that many young people aren't interested in anymore.
IMO



* the merry month, not May the PM

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Check what the passports say.

Many people in NI have Irish passports ...you think they all have to have British passports?

More than 62,000 Irish passports issued to NI residents in 2018

Also...
Irish nationality law is contained in the provisions of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts 1956 to 2004 and in the relevant provisions of the Irish Constitution. A person may be an Irish citizen[1] through birth, descent, marriage to an Irish citizen or through naturalisation. The law grants citizenship to individuals born in Northern Ireland under the same conditions as those born in the Republic of Ireland.
Irish nationality law - Wikipedia

So anyone born in NI automatically has Irish citizenship.
Eta. Law changed to jus soli in 2005. So anyone born after 2005 must have Irish parents or heritage...or be born to a parent who has been resident for over 3 years....I think.

 

[Kesher]

Many people in NI have Irish passports ...you think they all have to have British passports?

More than 62,000 Irish passports issued to NI residents in 2018

Also...
Irish nationality law is contained in the provisions of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts 1956 to 2004 and in the relevant provisions of the Irish Constitution. A person may be an Irish citizen[1] through birth, descent, marriage to an Irish citizen or through naturalisation. The law grants citizenship to individuals born in Northern Ireland under the same conditions as those born in the Republic of Ireland.
Irish nationality law - Wikipedia

So anyone born in NI automatically has Irish citizenship

Not many countries give citizenship by birth these days; most people inherit it

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Not many countries give citizenship by birth these days; most people inherit it

I apologise for initially thinking you were joking. Apparently the law in Ireland changed in 2005....
So anyone born after that date is under a different system..jus soli.

"On 1st January 2005, the law was amended to require that at least one of the parents be an Irish citizen; a British citizen; a child of a resident with a permanent right to reside in Ireland; or be a child of a legal resident residing three of the last four years in the country (excluding students and asylum seekers

 

[Cheesepig3]

42% of people in the North want a united Ireland - poll

42% of people in NI want a united Ireland. As of May* this year.
Interesting.

Brexit would boost support for united Ireland, poll finds

Brexit would boost support for a united Ireland. .to 52%..according to another survey.

And the most interesting stat..
"In the most recent elections, unionists have been scoring less than 50 per cent of the vote for the first time in Northern Ireland’s history, a result in line with recent polls"
Polls suggest gradual shift to united Ireland

I'm feeling a lot more positive about NI moving towards s united Ireland. Younger people in NI are not as motivated towards sectarianism. They've lived with peace and like it. They're not as tied to hardline Unionism or indeed hardline Republicanism. But they do see that Eire has as good a standard of living as the UK and that in actuality there is very little to differentiate between them. They've grown up with a wider world view and connection to Europe.

I think it will happen in my lifetime. As for unionists..there were plenty living in all parts of Ireland who adapted through the early 20th century. The hardline unionists in NI will just fade out. They dont have power and control in society anymore. And they're banging an old drum that many young people aren't interested in anymore.
IMO



* the merry month, not May the PM

I think you're right.


The harmonisation of what had been very different countries allied with the reduction of discrimination meant that support for murderous terrorists on the Nationalist side faded rapidly.

Who wants to kill or die for a flag that represents no real difference in the way you live?


Good thing really.


Sad to have your country of birth changed but hey ho.

 

[Cheesepig3]

The irony of non sequiturs is lost on you. I gave you historical context to the idea of divisions in Ireland and you gave me an emotive response about Warrington.

Fucks sake, soldier, it's taken you 2 whole days to come up with that?

Ireland will be united, deal with it.

Do you seriously imagine I'm ignorant of the historical context you plank?

I don't give a fuck about the historical context when its being used, however deviously, to diminish the responsibility of murderers for their murders.

I'm astonished that someone with the basic motor skills to post here can sneer at an "emotive response" to outrages such as the Warrington bomb.

Why would you do that?

 

[cupid_stunt]

But when I went to Belfast almost everyone sounded Irish

Yup... that's cos they are.

Check what the passports say.

Well, they can hold an Irish passport and/or a UK one, which says, 'United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland'.

So, Irish.

 

[Poi E]

If you're dead keen on identifying as Protestant you may as well look forward and throw your lot in with the Protestant population of the RoI which is actually growing, unlike in NI. There'd be a formidable Protestant bloc in the RoI, more than doubling the population there. That's my ill-informed bit of gobshite.

 

[grit]

If you're dead keen on identifying as Protestant you may as well look forward and throw your lot in with the Protestant population of the RoI which is actually growing, unlike in NI. There'd be a formidable Protestant bloc in the RoI, more than doubling the population there. That's my ill-informed bit of gobshite.

Republic prods wouldn't be expected to massively row in with northern loyalists. Also important to note that taigs are massively out breeding prods in the north so much that demographics will continue to change a lot

 

[krtek a houby]

Do you seriously imagine I'm ignorant of the historical context you plank?

I don't give a fuck about the historical context when its being used, however deviously, to diminish the responsibility of murderers for their murders.

I'm astonished that someone with the basic motor skills to post here can sneer at an "emotive response" to outrages such as the Warrington bomb.

Why would you do that?

People who don't give a fuck about historical context despite asking about historical context. Hmmm.

What has Warrington got to do with a united Ireland?

 

[Cheesepig3]

People who don't give a fuck about historical context despite asking about historical context. Hmmm.

What has Warrington got to do with a united Ireland?

I dgafahc when it's used, deceitfully, to justify murder.


Otherwise I'm really quite keen on historical context.

 

[Cheesepig3]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but do you honestly believe that those sash wearing, flute wielding wankers want to be a part of anything? (Apart from hatred)

I suspect that they want to be part of a red-faced crowd of shouty pricks with no understanding of the verb "to embarrass".

 

[Baronage-Phase]

I dgafahc when it's used, deceitfully, to justify murder.

That'd be the entire history of the British Empire then.

 

[krtek a houby]

I dgafahc when it's used, deceitfully, to justify murder.


Otherwise I'm really quite keen on historical context.

I haven't justified murder. You brought up Warrington out of context, ffs.

 

[Cheesepig3]

I haven't justified murder. You brought up Warrington out of context, ffs.

Nah.


In fact, naaahhh.


You (and [or possibly "or"] others) blathered on about blah blah partition blah blah oppression blah.


Fuck that shit; in context, people murdered children in Warrington under claims of justice based on the historical matters you (or possibly others) always throw up to soften the image of, and romanticise, the monstrous scum of the Provos.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nah.


In fact, naaahhh.


You (and [or possibly "or"] others) blathered on about blah blah partition blah blah oppression blah.


Fuck that shit; in context, people murdered children in Warrington under claims of justice based on the historical matters you (or possibly others) always throw up to soften the image of, and romanticise, the monstrous scum of the Provos.

I don't romanticise violence or murder, be it from the crown forces or the paramilitaries.

You asked for historical context, you got it and then brought up Warrington. Now, I or anyone else here could bring up dozens, hundreds of whataboutery examples but there's little point.

You treat a people like shit for generations, centuries - some of them will be moved to resist. Stick that in your Irish cooking and stew on it.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Nah.


In fact, naaahhh.


You (and [or possibly "or"] others) blathered on about blah blah partition blah blah oppression blah.


Fuck that shit; in context, people murdered children in Warrington under claims of justice based on the historical matters you (or possibly others) always throw up to soften the image of, and romanticise, the monstrous scum of the Provos.

You're tarring every one in Ireland who aspires to a united country with one brush.
You're aligning every one with the Provos by stating that any one living in this country who dares to eventhink or hope for a united Ireland is s Provo and to blame for the Warrington bomb?
I watched the aftermath of the Warrington bomb. Cried ... with many others. Signed condolences with many many other Irish people living in Ireland. Raised money to help the families... but you blame those who aspire to a united Ireland for what happened?
That's like blaming all Muslims for 911.

Understand this .... it is the stated aspiration of every political party here since 1922 that there will be a united Ireland by peaceful means. The people living here in ALL areas want peace...the vast majority also also want a united country by peaceful means. How dare you decide we are all responsible for bombs planted by a very small dissident group...
You're obviously someone who knows nothing about Ireland but hates Irish people. You're setting yourself up as a racist...the kind who calls Irish people Paddies.. you probably licked the glue on the back of the notices that read "no blacks no Irish,"...

And you turn to a full country of people to tell them they've no right to hope or aspire to be united? Because..."Warrington".?

You deny an entire country's horrific treatment by the British Empire? You think people here were not killed by the black and tans? By their own government(British)? You think bombs weren't planted here? You think Ireland under the British government was fairly treated? 1.5 million died because of that government and the laissez faire attitude towards and hatred of Irish people. We were scum... And it was a declared and agreed tactic to release land by letting people die here despite the country being awash with food. Food produced only to be shipped over to England.
Do you really think people here forget all that was done to them? And yet the vast majority want peace...want to live in harmony and develop relationships with unionists ... the vast majority want dialogue and know that everyone here has a shared brutal history but that we need to look forward and keep the peace that is so tentative. And yes...scratch the skin and the pain and horror of the past can still bleed out. But for most people they know and accept that there is no desire to return to sectarianism.....which is why most do not want a border and the hardline attitudes of the current unionist leader.

You talk as if history is just in a book... it's not. It is alive. It is in families...of those murdered and tortured on all sides. And nobody should tell anyone to forget their history because that way leads to ignorance and repetition. Facts and truth are important. And what happened to a country should not be deliberately ignored. Do you think the holocaust should be forgotten? People who ignore history and try to trash it have a habit of recreating it. People who learn from the mistakes of history tend not to repeat it.

 

[danny la rouge]

blah blah oppression blah

Always a good look.

 

[flypanam]

Nah.


In fact, naaahhh.


You (and [or possibly "or"] others) blathered on about blah blah partition blah blah oppression blah.


Fuck that shit; in context, people murdered children in Warrington under claims of justice based on the historical matters you (or possibly others) always throw up to soften the image of, and romanticise, the monstrous scum of the Provos.

Is that you Trevor Hinton?

 

[Cheesepig3]

I don't romanticise violence or murder, be it from the crown forces or the paramilitaries.

You asked for historical context, you got it and then brought up Warrington. Now, I or anyone else here could bring up dozens, hundreds of whataboutery examples but there's little point.

You treat a people like shit for generations, centuries - some of them will be moved to resist. Stick that in your Irish cooking and stew on it.

There you are.


"Resist" is a positive. You're cheerleading murder.



I don't understand the self delusion that allows your despicable position.

 

[Cheesepig3]

Always a good look.

Yeah I do it in spangly heels and a velvet waistcoat for added effect.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah I do it in spangly heels and a velvet waistcoat for added effect.

You spoiled it. You should have said sash. I’d have laughed if you’d said sash.

 

[Cheesepig3]

You're tarring every one in Ireland who aspires to a united country with one brush.
You're aligning every one with the Provos by stating that any one living in this country who dares to eventhink or hope for a united Ireland is s Provo and to blame for the Warrington bomb?
I watched the aftermath of the Warrington bomb. Cried ... with many others. Signed condolences with many many other Irish people living in Ireland. Raised money to help the families... but you blame those who aspire to a united Ireland for what happened?
That's like blaming all Muslims for 911.

Understand this .... it is the stated aspiration of every political party here since 1922 that there will be a united Ireland by peaceful means. The people living here in ALL areas want peace...the vast majority also also want a united country by peaceful means. How dare you decide we are all responsible for bombs planted by a very small dissident group...
You're obviously someone who knows nothing about Ireland but hates Irish people. You're setting yourself up as a racist...the kind who calls Irish people Paddies.. you probably licked the glue on the back of the notices that read "no blacks no Irish,"...

And you turn to a full country of people to tell them they've no right to hope or aspire to be united? Because..."Warrington".?

You deny an entire country's horrific treatment by the British Empire? You think people here were not killed by the black and tans? By their own government(British)? You think bombs weren't planted here? You think Ireland under the British government was fairly treated? 1.5 million died because of that government and the laissez faire attitude towards and hatred of Irish people. We were scum... And it was a declared and agreed tactic to release land by letting people die here despite the country being awash with food. Food produced only to be shipped over to England.
Do you really think people here forget all that was done to them? And yet the vast majority want peace...want to live in harmony and develop relationships with unionists ... the vast majority want dialogue and know that everyone here has a shared brutal history but that we need to look forward and keep the peace that is so tentative. And yes...scratch the skin and the pain and horror of the past can still bleed out. But for most people they know and accept that there is no desire to return to sectarianism.....which is why most do not want a border and the hardline attitudes of the current unionist leader.

You talk as if history is just in a book... it's not. It is alive. It is in families...of those murdered and tortured on all sides. And nobody should tell anyone to forget their history because that way leads to ignorance and repetition. Facts and truth are important. And what happened to a country should not be deliberately ignored. Do you think the holocaust should be forgotten? People who ignore history and try to trash it have a habit of recreating it. People who learn from the mistakes of history tend not to repeat it.

I say again: blah blah blah.


The fact that a group treated another like shite doesn't in any way justify violence against anyone other than against the violent oppressors at the time of the oppression.

Please don't pretend that you think I'm ignorant of the history of Ireland as seen through English eyes or t'other way around. Please don't, however gossamer-like the connection, lay "resistance " as an explanation for murder.

 

[Cheesepig3]

You spoiled it. You should have said sash. I’d have laughed if you’d said sash.

The sash is in the cleaners.

It's hard to get jizz out of spangles on velvet. Orange velvet. Green spangles.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

The sash is in the cleaners.

It's hard to get jizz out of spangles on velvet. Orange velvet. Green spangles.

You could always cut off your cock.
Problem solved.

 

[krtek a houby]

There you are.


"Resist" is a positive. You're cheerleading murder.



I don't understand the self delusion that allows your despicable position.

I have never cheerleaded for murder. A nation was raped and brutalised - and some resisted the British reign of terror. I understand completely why there was violence.

Violence which you also added to, btw. How's that for delusion and complicity?