Meanwhile 3000 migrants gather at US border - what next?

[Friedrich986]

yeh. you know when wages are lowered it is bosses lowering wages, it isn't something that happens without human intervention, there's a deliberate decision by bosses to pay people less?

of course, but that's all down to supply and demand

oversupply of workers = lower wages

econ 101

 

[Pickman's model]

of course, but that's all down to supply and demand

oversupply of workers = lower wages

econ 101

that's utter bollocks.

 

[Sprocket.]

Hmmm. Supply and demand, that sounds novel.

 

[Sprocket.]

I bet a rising tide lifts all boats too!

 

[Argonia]

Is this Friedrich Nieztsche posting here beyond the grave?

 

[NoXion]

if there's a whole load of migrants coming in, artificially lowering wages and prices, then for sure, some people may be able to get cheaper fruit, but it's a false economy, as poor people shouldn't be able to afford luxuries in great quantities anyhow - ie. it just means SOMEONE ELSE is paying for it, think about it

rather like the 'free' NHS for the world's migrants - it STILL HAS TO BE PAID FOR!

Your first paragraph makes no sense. Firstly, why is it "artificial" when the cause of prices lowering is due to immigration, but not "artificial" when the price of food is driven up by commodity speculation? Also, since when is fresh fruit a luxury? It should be an essential, given how its importance to public health.

The NHS doesn't service the world's migrants, it only operates within the UK. Even if you don't pay income tax or make National Insurance Contributions, you're still paying for the NHS any time you buy something with VAT, which is pretty much anything except for a select few items such as childrens' clothes. So it is, in fact, being paid for.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Greedy bastard capitalist employers = lower wages

econ 101

Fixed it for you.

 

[Friedrich986]

I bet a rising tide lifts all boats too!

it lifts some boats , not all, ie. it lifts those of middle class and above, to an extent

so how does that help the mass of workers?

 

[Pickman's model]

it lifts some boats , not all, ie. it lifts those of middle class and above, to an extent

so how does that help the mass of workers?

could you share with me the qualifications you hold which should persuade me that you know anything of what you're saying?

 

[Sprocket.]

Is this Friedrich Nieztsche posting here beyond the grave?

Friedrich Hayekplosive more likely!

 

[marty21]

it will gradually creep in if NI is treated separately to rest of UK

It is already treated separately to the rest of the uk

 

[Friedrich986]

Your first paragraph makes no sense. Firstly, why is it "artificial" when the cause of prices lowering is due to immigration, .

it's artificial becausue the fruit is overproduced due to the whole scale import of labourers simply to overproduce an un-needed product, in order to make money for those controlling the finances

 

[Pickman's model]

it's artificial becausue the fruit is overproduced due to the whole scale import of labourers simply to overproduce an un-needed product, in order to make money for those controlling the finances

could you answer the question asked instead of the question you think is being asked?

 

[NoXion]

it's artificial becausue the fruit is overproduced due to the whole scale import of labourers simply to overproduce an un-needed product, in order to make money for those controlling the finances

Why is manipulation of the labour market any more artificial than the manipulation of the commodity market?

The whole thing is artificial anyways as it's created by humans.

 

[Friedrich986]

YAlso, since when is fresh fruit a luxury? It should be an essential, given how its importance to public health.

The NHS doesn't service the world's migrants, it only operates within the UK. Even if you don't pay income tax or make National Insurance Contributions, you're still paying for the NHS any time you buy something with VAT, which is pretty much anything except for a select few items such as childrens' clothes. So it is, in fact, being paid for.

Fresh fruit is a luxury unless you can pick it wild off the trees

Paying VAT does not necessarily go into the NHS, there are a host of other expenses that this tax pays for - and you see, it's only after many yrs that one could pay enough in tax to cover all these things, hence private insurance for migrants should be compulosry for at least the first 10 yrs

 

[Pickman's model]

if there's a whole load of migrants coming in, artificially lowering wages and prices, then for sure, some people may be able to get cheaper fruit, but it's a false economy, as poor people shouldn't be able to afford luxuries in great quantities anyhow - ie. it just means SOMEONE ELSE is paying for it, think about it

rather like the 'free' NHS for the world's migrants - it STILL HAS TO BE PAID FOR!

lay out for me in one simple sentence what qualifications you have in economics.

 

[Pickman's model]

Fresh fruit is a luxury unless you can pick it wild off the trees

Paying VAT does not necessarily go into the NHS, there are a host of other expenses that this tax pays for - and you see, it's only after many yrs that one could pay enough in tax to cover all these things, hence private insurance for migrants should be compulosry for at least the first 10 yrs

ok, my qualifications are

ba (hons) history
ba (hons) humanities and english
ma modern history
ma victorian studies
ma library & information studies

oh, and 4 a levels and 9 gcses.

now let's see yours

 

[Sprocket.]

could you answer the question asked instead of the question you think is being asked?

His specialist subject is, Answering the question before last.

 

[NoXion]

Fresh fruit is a luxury unless you can pick it wild off the trees

Paying VAT does not necessarily go into the NHS, there are a host of other expenses that this tax pays for - and you see, it's only after many yrs that one could pay enough in tax to cover all these things, hence private insurance for migrants should be compulosry for at least the first 10 yrs

Fresh fruit is not a luxury. Have you ever been into a shop that sells groceries? Fresh fruit (and veg) can be had for much cheaper than the equivalent weight in junk food. You're increasingly sounding like someone who has no experience of the adult world.

Income tax and NICs don't necessarily go to the NHS either, so you've not made any point. One of the advantages of taxation is the pooling of collective resources, so that they can be better assigned on the basis of need. the rich man's taxes support the poor person's cancer treatments and heart surgery that they couldn't afford by themselves. The poor man gets to live a longer and healthier life, and the rich man isn't dragged out into the streets and butchered by an angry mob. Everyone wins!

 

[Friedrich986]

Why is manipulation of the labour market any more artificial than the manipulation of the commodity market?

The whole thing is artificial anyways as it's created by humans.

because the commodity market does not involve real objects, ie. humans - humans do not enter the country en masse with commodity market manipulations in the same way as mass migration.

You see, mass migration is given a basic reasoning, ie 'we must harvest the crops, we must staff the NHS' , but from then on the people remain in the nation, thus pushing up rents and LOWERING the spending power of the mass of workers.

 

[Pickman's model]

because the commodity market does not involve real objects, ie. humans - humans do not enter the country en masse with commodity market manipulations in the same way as mass migration.

You see, mass migration is given a basic reasoning, ie 'we must harvest the crops, we must staff the NHS' , but from then on the people remain in the nation, thus pushing up rents and LOWERING the spending power of the mass of workers.

let's see those qualifications now prof

 

[Friedrich986]

Fresh fruit is not a luxury. Have you ever been into a shop that sells groceries? Fresh fruit (and veg) can be had for much cheaper than the equivalent weight in junk food. You're increasingly sounding like someone who has no experience of the adult world.

Income tax and NICs don't necessarily go to the NHS either, so you've not made any point. One of the advantages of taxation is the pooling of collective resources, so that they can be better assigned on the basis of need. the rich man's taxes support the poor person's cancer treatments and heart surgery that they couldn't afford by themselves. The poor man gets to live a longer and healthier life, and the rich man isn't dragged out into the streets and butchered by an angry mob. Everyone wins!

well if that's the case, then since mass immigration to the UK began, why has the NHS gone to the shitter, zero hrs contracts have proliferated, welfare has been slashed, bedroom tax etc etc.....or is it just the nasty old bogeymen of the Tories and 'greedy bosses' yet again... SUPPLY AND DEMAND ...look it up, you obviously don't know what it means!

 

[Pickman's model]

well if that's the case, then since mass immigration to the UK began, why has the NHS gone to the shitter, zero hrs contracts have proliferated, welfare has been slashed, bedroom tax etc etc.....or is it just the nasty old bogeymen of the Tories and 'greedy bosses' yet again... SUPPLY AND DEMAND ...look it up, you obviously don't know what it means!

you obviously don't. perhaps you could post up your educational credentials now, i hope they include reading beyond page one in the ladybird book of economics

 

[NoXion]

because the commodity market does not involve real objects, ie. humans - humans do not enter the country en masse with commodity market manipulations in the same way as mass migration.

You see, mass migration is given a basic reasoning, ie 'we must harvest the crops, we must staff the NHS' , but from then on the people remain in the nation, thus pushing up rents and LOWERING the spending power of the mass of workers.

Since when are commodities such as wheat and gold not real?

Rents are increasing because landlords have tenants over a barrel. This is the case regardless of immigration.

 

[Pickman's model]

well if that's the case, then since mass immigration to the UK began, why has the NHS gone to the shitter, zero hrs contracts have proliferated, welfare has been slashed, bedroom tax etc etc.....or is it just the nasty old bogeymen of the Tories and 'greedy bosses' yet again... SUPPLY AND DEMAND ...look it up, you obviously don't know what it means!

ah right, you want things put back to how they were the day before the windrush landed

 

[NoXion]

well if that's the case, then since mass immigration to the UK began, why has the NHS gone to the shitter, zero hrs contracts have proliferated, welfare has been slashed, bedroom tax etc etc.....or is it just the nasty old bogeymen of the Tories and 'greedy bosses' yet again... SUPPLY AND DEMAND ...look it up, you obviously don't know what it means!

Politicians and bosses make the decisions leading to the situation you describe. Human actions, not this invisible hand bullshit you're pushing.

 

[Pickman's model]

well if that's the case, then since mass immigration to the UK began, why has the NHS gone to the shitter, zero hrs contracts have proliferated, welfare has been slashed, bedroom tax etc etc.....or is it just the nasty old bogeymen of the Tories and 'greedy bosses' yet again... SUPPLY AND DEMAND ...look it up, you obviously don't know what it means!

and there's no need to worry about posting your educational credentials now, you've established clearly you're no mastermind.

 

[Friedrich986]

fairly obvious Pickman has run out of steam some time ago, nothing but repetition from this boy.

 

[Friedrich986]

Politicians and bosses make the decisions leading to the situation you describe. Human actions, not this invisible hand bullshit you're pushing.

sure, they make the decisions BASED ON supply and demand. That's how capitalism works.

 

[NoXion]

sure, they make the decisions BASED ON supply and demand. That's how capitalism works.

No it's not. Both supply and demand are subject to manipulation by human action.