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Bonfire of the government arts funding

From the government that brought you 'Wokeness is a threat to Are Kultcha', massive defuding of theatres, performing arts etc, including orchestras, Donmar Warehouse theatre and English National Opera. Under the guise of 'Oooh it's levelling up', which would be fine if it were sincere, but it's mostly sounding like an empty excuse not to fund the arts.

I know many of you will not be getting out your little violins (no pun intended) but groups like ENO really were doing a lot to widen access and there is a current option on the table to move to Manchester, but that does already have Opera North, a top-class national institution in itself there.

The tories are absolutely vile. I have no doubt they have spun levelling up with defunding. Art is so important. Then when something in the Arts does well there will likely be a tory there trying to take credit for it. :snarl:
 
Arts funding is needed more than ever at a time like this, when people have less money but need both entertainment and inspiration, spiritual nourishment if you will. Indeed, arts funding should be increased to introduce new art to the public realm, with my favorite notion being inspired by your thread title where a massive wooden sculpture might be built in Hyde Park or maybe in a Manchester park, in the form of a giant fat man. Inside it would have little rooms, into which members of the parliamentary Conservative party might be lodged. Then once they were all 356 secured the great sculpture might be set alight. If a clever engineer were employed, the emanation from the tories might be transformed through pipework into some glorious chords. Anyway, I think such a work would hearten large sections of the population in this harsh time, and very many people would be glad to see the arts involving themselves in political matters
You are entirely correct.
 
Arts funding is needed more than ever at a time like this, when people have less money but need both entertainment and inspiration, spiritual nourishment if you will. Indeed, arts funding should be increased to introduce new art to the public realm, with my favorite notion being inspired by your thread title where a massive wooden sculpture might be built in Hyde Park or maybe in a Manchester park, in the form of a giant fat man. Inside it would have little rooms, into which members of the parliamentary Conservative party might be lodged. Then once they were all 356 secured the great sculpture might be set alight. If a clever engineer were employed, the emanation from the tories might be transformed through pipework into some glorious chords. Anyway, I think such a work would hearten large sections of the population in this harsh time, and very many people would be glad to see the arts involving themselves in political matters
Expand the idea to cover ~600 and you've got my backing. Actually i want the 800 peers in there too, so about 1400.
 
Arts funding isn't just about public engagement with art. A lot of orgs have that bang on. The problem is, who gets to participate in the creation of art? Who's paid for their work? Who's credited? Who gets to write the narrative about it? When it comes down to it, a lot of public frustration with art stems from those issues. Football presents us with more examples of working class kids making it big than opera - whether that's because it's true or because the football industry have their PR figured out better is a different question
 
Arts funding isn't just about public engagement with art. A lot of orgs have that bang on. The problem is, who gets to participate in the creation of art? Who's paid for their work? Who's credited? Who gets to write the narrative about it? When it comes down to it, a lot of public frustration with art stems from those issues. Football presents us with more examples of working class kids making it big than opera - whether that's because it's true or because the football industry have their PR figured out better is a different question

How much opera (or even classical music) is taught in state schools? How does that compare to football?

How can an 18-year old who has received a typical state-school music education progress into a career in opera?
 
This is absolutely a key point, and a further argument for moving the focus away from London.
Speaking as a Londoner, I think London is in desperate need of MORE arts funding. It's become a very boring city in the last few years, there's been a real impoverishment of culture. I would like to see a lot more investment in grassroots arts and culture though, I'm less bothered about opera.

However this line of argument runs the risk of becoming like this meme.

Some cookies with the text A billionaire, a worker and an immigrant are sitting at a table with 1000 cookies. The billionaire takes 999 cookies and says to the worker, watch out, that immigrant is going to take your cookie.
 
Speaking as a Londoner, I think London is in desperate need of MORE arts funding. It's become a very boring city in the last few years, there's been a real impoverishment of culture. I would like to see a lot more investment in grassroots arts and culture though, I'm less bothered about opera.

However this line of argument runs the risk of becoming like this meme.

Some cookies with the text A billionaire, a worker and an immigrant are sitting at a table with 1000 cookies. The billionaire takes 999 cookies and says to the worker, watch out, that immigrant is going to take your cookie.
While I get what you’re saying with the cookie meme, if you think London has an impoverishment of culture, try and imagine how bad it is elsewhere :(
 
Don’t know anything about opera funding but I’d like to see grass roots organisations funded ahead of ENO and the ROH.

Get people into opera and they’ll fork out for expensive tickets (as a treat) just as people pay to go to musicals.
 
Speaking as a Londoner, I think London is in desperate need of MORE arts funding. It's become a very boring city in the last few years, there's been a real impoverishment of culture. I would like to see a lot more investment in grassroots arts and culture though, I'm less bothered about opera.
I think we can all see that the government's levelling up agenda is a dodgy way of transferring our energy and work to them and their mates.

That said, if we waved a magic wand and suddenly had a socialist government, I still think there would be very strong arguments for trying to direct employment, departments, resources, culture etc out of the south east and to other areas of the country.
The dominance of the SE is not healthy for either workers in the SE or elsewhere

From a recent LRB article
In the aftermath of the First World War, the economies of the South-East and the North were ‘roughly on level pegging’, contributing 35 and 30 per cent of GDP respectively; by the end of the 20th century, the figures were 40 and 21 per cent, with London gaining another 5 percentage points between 1997 and 2017. Regional disparities within states widened globally over this same period, but the severity of Britain’s North-South divide is unique, worse than in famously imbalanced countries like Spain, Germany and Italy, as well as France, with its massive metropolitan core.

Examining English history from a northern perspective helps to explain this. The determination of Westminster politicians – Liberal, Labour and Tory – to maintain the economic predominance of London and the South-East (in finance, the wider service sector and cutting-edge manufactures) has an appalling consistency: in Blackburn in 1931, 42 per cent of women were unemployed compared to 3 per cent in Luton; in Lancashire in the late 1950s, Harold Macmillan’s efforts to maintain the price of sterling finally turned cotton into a net import; in the North as a whole from 1979 onwards, inflation and union power were conquered at the cost of industry’s often terminal decline. The preoccupation of the British ruling class with its world-leading financial sector is a vital part of the explanation for the long decay of the 19th-century ascendancy of the North.
 
How much opera (or even classical music) is taught in state schools? How does that compare to football?

How can an 18-year old who has received a typical state-school music education progress into a career in opera?
Very few would want to though would they? Even if you trebled the level of funding. Opera (and ballet) has been a niche interest - in the UK certainly - for many many decades (was it ever popular here?). It gets funded because it is seen as culturally important and is tied in with notions of civic and national prestige. Whatever its historical importance, Its relevance to contemporary culture is highly questionable. A much stronger case can be made for theatre - where there is a clear feed in TV and film drama in terms of content and training for actors - but again its incredibly elitist and problematic in terms of access and democratisation - with most of the funding going into the big prestige theaters - especially the RSC and very little going into grassroots or supporting access for working class people.
Also worth noting that most of the most important, popular and influential cultural output since the age of mass communication - popular music, film, creative writing, TV, large areas of visual arts, photography, fashion, popular dance, video games, musicals - has received little or no state arts funding.
That is not to argue against arts funding - its more to suggest that this is where the focus on access and support should be - rather than on structures designed to preserve "high cultural" forms.
e.g - when you study music at school you are taught theory and learning scores within the orchestral tradition. Which is fine for training people to play in orchestras - but of little or no relevance to how the vast majority of music is actually created. The ability to use music programming software is way way more useful to most people interested in creating music than a deep theoretical knowledge of scales (gong off at a tangent - cos personal bugbear - there is also little or no formal teaching that encourages children to play by ear and play collaboratively - which is how most music has always been created and played) .
 
hat said, if we waved a magic wand and suddenly had a socialist government, I still think there would be very strong arguments for trying to direct employment, departments, resources, culture etc out of the south east and to other areas of the country.

Would it even require a socialist government? A half decent social democratic industrial strategy would want to increase spending on social and cultural institutions outside of the SE (and move existing resources out of London) and not just in northern cities but in towns and coastal areas too.
 
Would it even require a socialist government? A half decent social democratic industrial strategy would want to increase spending on social and cultural institutions outside of the SE (and move existing resources out of London) and not just in northern cities but in towns and coastal areas too.
one thing which should be corrected - through addition, not imo transition - is that of the five copyright libraries in the country, namely the bl, cambridge university library, the bodleian, national library of scotland and national library of wales, there are none north of the wash and south of the tweed. sure, there are some grand academic libraries in eg leeds, york, lancaster, newcastle - but there should be a public copyright library somewhere in the north
 
The problem London has is that the high cost of property is both forcing artists and musicians to leave in droves, and shutting venues.

Paradise Yard and experimental music venue Iklectik is a perfect example.
to be fair that's not simply a london problem but a countrywide problem because the dispersal of musicians, who unlike artists will almost all work collaboratively, means that connections won't be made, groups will not be formed, combinations will be missed.
 
If we are funding Opera by pump priming production companies to operate sustainably in a multipurpose theatres... Then I'm all for it.

If we were subsidising a bloated expensive product indefinitely, where artists and company chiefs are living lavish life styles unjustified by the income they bring in from paying punters... Then fuck em.

The Royal Opera House got lottery millions to replace perfectly good seats that other theatres would kill for with brand new ones. Fuck em.

Taylor Swift is worth millions because she sells millions. Opera singers being paid millions by the government for selling thousands. Fuck em.
 
If we are funding Opera by pump priming production companies to operate sustainably in a multipurpose theatres... Then I'm all for it.

If we were subsidising a bloated expensive product indefinitely, where artists and company chiefs are living lavish life styles unjustified by the income they bring in from paying punters... Then fuck em.

The Royal Opera House got lottery millions to replace perfectly good seats that other theatres would kill for with brand new ones. Fuck em.

Taylor Swift is worth millions because she sells millions. Opera singers being paid millions by the government for selling thousands. Fuck em.
i think you're conflating all manner of things here, eg the royal opera house is in covent garden and nothing to do with the english national opera. but then i don't think you're our go to person for anything requiring thought and nuance.
 
I have to confess that I'm in the tiny violin category when it comes to public funding of things like the opera and the ballet. No matter how you try and dress it up as culture it's entertainment fundamentally no different from the local panto. Why should public funds pay for entertainment? The West End is thriving on a business model that involves them charging £100+ per ticket so why shouldn't the opera and the ballet not be expected to do the same.
Museums and art galleries (definitely the first possibly the second) I can see some point to public funding.
They are closing our local museum, all funding they applied for was rejected. They can't even get the hole in the roof fixed. Considering whats inside that could be rather devasting for the contents...
 
Opera attendance in England 2005-2017 | Statista

Opera is a niche performance art in this country, its funding is disproportianate to its enhancement of a vey few mainly comfortably off people's quality of life
yeh. that's really good as far as it goes, which is to say nowhere. do you think this should be the case? if you look at the plots of a lot of operas, they're remarkably gory things - lots of deaths in eg rigoletto. there's elements of horror in them, for example, in don giovanni. if it's ended up as a niche performance art in this country then i'd say that's a failure going back decades. for me, things like opera, like operetta, ought to be open to more people both in terms of geographical availability and price. back in the day light operas like gilbert and sullivan were immensely popular in this country, and it really is an indictment of things that it's turned into an elitist pursuit.
 
I don't really care for any musicals including opera. Yes I have seen 2. However, the creative industries, arts, all of it, are a big part of the economy and culltural capital of this country. Much of it of course is done with no state funding, art exhibitions, music, creative media etc. But I want there to be funding for helping the talented but disadvantaged, working class actors, techies, to get into film, TV, national radio. Cuts to such schemes as exist can be brought in behind the distraction of the old cliche of funding posh people's entertainment.
 
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