BNP Threatened with Winding-Up Order

[love detective]

I'm just trying to get an opinion from you ABOUT THE TOPIC of this thread. Why won't you give us your opinion on a question of interest to many people?

BTW, editing my comments just makes you look stupid. You do know the meaning of '?'?

I didn't quote you (or even attribute a quote to you) so what you whittering on about editing your comments?

As to my opinion ABOUT THE TOPIC of the thread. As amusing as it is to see what's happening to the BNP, I'd say that focusing on the legal debilitation of an organisation that is but an expression of a real substantive underlying tendency/sentiment does not really equate to the active/constructive opposition to fascism

 

[5t3IIa]

No.

Any money from the sale of the car will only reduce the amount owed, they will still be looking to recover the balance of the £45k, plus, of course, all the other debts too.

Oh 'dear'.

Can a party in administration have an MEP?

 

[stuff_it]

Oh 'dear'.

Can a party in administration have an MEP?

Dunno, presumably they could go 'Independant' though, or join another party?

 

[TremulousTetra]

I didn't quote you (or even attribute a quote to you) so what you whittering on about editing your comments?

you did fuck with my words, but no one is interested.

As to my opinion ABOUT THE TOPIC of the thread. As amusing as it is to see what's happening to the BNP, I'd say that focusing on the legal debilitation of an organisation that is but an expression of a real substantive underlying tendency/sentiment does not really equate to the active/constructive opposition to fascism

So is it likely this debilitation of fascist organisation, the BNP, will have any effect upon the Fascists efforts to achieve their political objectives, in your opinion? ie

yeah it is the brand 'BNP' that griffin succesfully built up. i hope that the various clowns will drift into the alphabetic confusion of ED, BF, NF, UKIP, UPP, and that. griffin shd be credited for making them almost an establishment name which was thankfully undermined by his wilful destruction of the party. the thing is he made so many blunders, operated nepotistically and so obviously corruptly that it is hard NOT to think there was a hidden agenda. its not like he's daft you know!

[/quote]

 

[5t3IIa]

Dunno, presumably they could go 'Independant' though, or join another party?

I was really asking people who know the answer. Thanks though!

 

[claphamboy]

Oh 'dear'.

Can a party in administration have an MEP?

Griffin can be held personally responsible for most of the BNP's debts, hence his car being lifted, so I guess they can move to personally bankrupt him if the debts are not paid, that in turn, from my understanding, would disbar him from holding public office.

 

[TremulousTetra]

I didn't quote you (or even attribute a quote to you) so what you whittering on about editing your comments?

As to my opinion ABOUT THE TOPIC of the thread. As amusing as it is to see what's happening to the BNP, I'd say that focusing on the legal debilitation of an organisation that is but an expression of a real substantive underlying tendency/sentiment does not really equate to the active/constructive opposition to fascism

What does equate to an active/constructive opposition to fascism, In your opinion?

 

[5t3IIa]

Griffin can be held personally responsible for most of the BNP's debts, hence his car being lifted, so I guess they can move to personally bankrupt him if the debts are not paid, that in turn, from my understanding, would disbar him from holding public office.

I shall forward you the PM I sent that rude cunt Pickmans that he ignored!

 

[love detective]

@ RMP3

show me where i edited your comments and attributed them to you? I'm interested.

as to your question - as i say, the legal debilitation of a political party (that is but an expression of a particular essence) does nothing to address the source of the problem - ergo the problem is likely to arise again in the future in a different shape or form - while this may result in a short term gain for 'anti-fascism' , it does nothing to confront the substantive issues or conditions that provide the fertile ground for the growth of the new far right in the first place

This uncritical cheering on of 'legal anti-fascism' is in itself essentially a conservative position, it accepts short term gains at the expense of bolstering the political status quo/establishment, it doesn't confront (or even acknowledge) the substantive issues that need confronting. If such a thing was being used as part of a twin track process to combat both the expression and the essence then i'd be more sympathetic to it, but it doesn't appear to be.

 

[malatesta32]

This uncritical cheering on of 'legal anti-fascism' is in itself essentially a conservative position, it accepts short term gains at the expense of bolstering the political status quo/establishment, it doesn't confront (or even acknowledge) the substantive issues that need confronting. If such a thing was being used as part of a twin track process to combat both the expression and the essence then i'd be more sympathetic to it, but it doesn't appear to be.

LD, yr right but i think antifascists can enjoy a wee dose of schadenfreude whilst the BNP and all the suckers who backed it collapse into the alphabetic nightmare of other far right grupuscules. however, the reasons for fascist support, as you rightly point out, remain.

 

[TremulousTetra]

@ RMP3

show me where i edited your comments and attributed them to you? I'm interested.

as to your question - as i say, the legal debilitation of a political party (that is but an expression of a particular essence) does nothing to address the source of the problem - ergo the problem is likely to arise again in the future in a different shape or form - while this may result in a short term gain for 'anti-fascism' , it does nothing to confront the substantive issues or conditions that provide the fertile ground for the growth of the new far right in the first place

In the 1930s, debilitation of the British union of Fascists party (that was but an expression of a particular essence) did nothing to address the source of the problem - ergo the problem was likely to arise again in the future in a different shape or form - while this did result in a short term gain for 'anti-fascism' , it did nothing to confront the substantive issues or conditions that provide the fertile ground for the growth of the new far right in the first place. BUT, and it is a big forking BUT, it did prevent the anarchists/Communist etc being thrown into concentration camps, and so made circumstances possible for such people to exist/organise.

Let's be blunt, the source of the problem is capitalism. And so until we get rid of capitalism, anti-fascism will always be a labour of Sisyphus. I short term gain, to avoid annihilation. I don't know anybody who has ever argued that anti-fascism without social revolution, will get rid of fascism for ever.in short, I don't know anybody who would disagree with your comments about not tackling the root cause, capitalism.

This uncritical cheering on of 'legal anti-fascism' is in itself essentially a conservative position, it accepts short term gains at the expense of bolstering the political status quo/establishment, it doesn't confront (or even acknowledge) the substantive issues that need confronting. If such a thing was being used as part of a twin track process to combat both the expression and the essence then i'd be more sympathetic to it, but it doesn't appear to be.

you are confusing here. Are you saying the antifascist movement should be the twin track approach, antifascist's have to oppose fascism and capitalism? perhaps you should just clarify what you mean by a twin track approach.

What does equate to an active/constructive opposition to fascism, In your opinion?

 

[love detective]

RMP3 i'd recommend that you simply just read my posts - everything you ask is contained within them - can't really be arsed dancing this merry go round with you

 

[SpineyNorman]

because you are a wanker?

Now that's not very nice. There's a difference between changing what people have said and only quoting the part you're asking a question about. Would you care to answer that question by the way?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Hold the front page: U75 thread sinks into nasty acrimony based on minutae that only the directly involved and geeks could possibly be interested in.

If I was a newbie I really wouldn't have a high opinion of this place, which is a shame because in and amongst the endless bickering there are points made of an astute and well informed nature that one would struggle to find elsewhere.

 

[trevhagl]

Hold the front page: U75 thread sinks into nasty acrimony based on minutae that only the directly involved and geeks could possibly be interested in.

If I was a newbie I really wouldn't have a high opinion of this place, which is a shame because in and amongst the endless bickering there are points made of an astute and well informed nature that one would struggle to find elsewhere.

my thoughts entirely, but they will never change. I was just reading the TUC thread and after years of slagging the unions for being pussies, they are now slagging em for rabblerousing.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Hold the front page: U75 thread sinks into nasty acrimony based on minutae that only the directly involved and geeks could possibly be interested in.

If I was a newbie I really wouldn't have a high opinion of this place, which is a shame because in and amongst the endless bickering there are points made of an astute and well informed nature that one would struggle to find elsewhere.

yes, fair play, but hardly a revelation. It has been that way as long as I have been a member. Pretty much given up, and so must admit my first post was a grenade.

however, even when you do try to engage [above] people are so enmeshed in their own worldview it is hard to get beyond the strawmen, to a critical analysis of the antifascist movement that IS needed. Criticising it is fine, and to be welcomed, encouraged, but you cannot just make shit it up, and offer no alternative.

 

[Pickman's model]

because you are a wanker?

i see you've reached, for you, previously unprecedented levels of political analysis

 

[dennisr]

a critical analysis of the antifascist movement that IS needed.

so offer one

 

[malatesta32]

okay ladies and gentlemen, calm down and be nice. let's get back on track and enjoy the demise of the BNP!

 

[claphamboy]

The court order in the OP was dated 7th Sept., so the 14 days are up today, I wonder if they found the cash or not.

*keeps fingers crossed*

 

[claphamboy]

I guess they must have come up with the cash, or had the deadline extended, as there doesn't seem to have been any further news on this particular case.

Moving on, the latest claims on Brons' BNP Ideas site is that Griffin is currently the subject of a police investigation, over an alleged criminal conspiracy to bankrupt Richard Branbrook over the unpaid invoices from the printers in Northern Ireland.

British National Party leader Nick Griffin attempted to incite a criminal conspiracy to bankrupt Greater London Assembly member Richard Barnbrook with forged documents blaming him for the party’s printing debts, it has emerged.

<snip>

This plot is currently the subject of a criminal investigation by the police, and is being looked at in conjunction with the false declarations submitted by the party (Mr Griffin and Mr Jefferson in particular) to the Electoral Commission concerning election expenses for the Barking and Dagenham election.

The email offer to exchange payment for forged letters of demand proves that Mr Griffin was aware that the printing bills had not been paid—months after he and his treasury staff submitted returns to the Electoral Commission saying all the accounts had been paid.

Both the conspiracy and false declaration charges carry severe criminal and possible jail terms as sentences if the accused are found guilty. A sentence of longer than six months will result in Mr Griffin losing his MEP seat.

On the page they have reproduced what is claimed to be evidence of the conspiracy, including the letters & covering e-mail from Griffin's daughter - the BNP membership secretary.

bnpideas.com/?p=2257

If there's no truth in this, it's a very risky game to be publishing such claims.

 

[claphamboy]

Oh yeah, and the Panorama programme looking into the BNP's finances & troubles is due to be aired on Mon 3rd Oct. now.

 

[butchersapron]

I guess they must have come up with the cash, or had the deadline extended, as there doesn't seem to have been any further news on this particular case.

Moving on, the latest claims on Brons' BNP Ideas site is that Griffin is currently the subject of a police investigation, over an alleged criminal conspiracy to bankrupt Richard Branbrook over the unpaid invoices from the printers in Northern Ireland.

On the page they have reproduced what is claimed to be evidence of the conspiracy, including the letters & covering e-mail from Griffin's daughter - the BNP membership secretary.

bnpideas.com/?p=2257

If there's no truth in this, it's a very risky game to be publishing such claims.

Well, there was no Barking and Dagenham election as there is no such Parliamentary constituency. Brons is overplaying his hand by a mile here. The stink of shit off this is becoming stronger by the day.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Well, there was no Barking and Dagenham election as there is no such Parliamentary constituency. Brons is overplaying his hand by a mile here. The stink of shit off this is becoming stronger by the day.

Presumably he is refferring to the council elections, it is a borough?

 

[butchersapron]

Brons previously claimed the debts related specifically and soley to Griffin's Parliamentary campaign. It has to be about Griffin's barking campaign as RB was his election agent - so liable.

What are the chances that Brons would be talking so openly and saying what actually happened if there was a real ongoing police investigation? Of printing what would be actual evidence if it is ture? There basically is nothing there but unsubstantiated claims.

I have a sneaky feeling he's being played here.

 

[claphamboy]

I had my doubts, hence the careful wording of post #81, and I thought I had seen something about this before, but it's different to keep up with all the different claims & court cases, so cheers BA for finding that link above.

However, what I find interesting is that Brons is making such claims, in view of the possibly of Griffin taking legal action against him if the claims are totally false - it's certainly an interesting sideshow.

I hope the Panorama team has has found some serious evidence of wrong doings, the fact that the programme has been delayed again could mean they are waiting on the authorities to make a move, or, on the other hand, they have failed to unearth anything serious enough to warrant the airing of the programme.

 

[butchersapron]

Is it possible to tell when a webpage was put up? Because Arthur Kemp (or someone using his name) has a page making the same claim, if this is his page then Brons ripped his post off almost entirely word-for-word from. Interesting to see when it went up - for a number of reasons. The lack of other content and the last lines make me very suspicious though (as does the image links having the same tags as brons but hosted elsewhere)...if in last few days then it's likely pissing about by people opposed to the BNP, if well before...

edit: who would set up arthurkemp.com over 7 years ago, keep it registered each and yet make only a single post, making the same claim as Brons?

 

[claphamboy]

The link you provided in post #85 is an article dated 2/9/11, and that in turn links to the arthurkemp.com, so I am guessing it's been up on arthurkemp.com since the 2/9/11 at least.

 

[butchersapron]

Which then leaves the question of why Brons has decided to steal the post he's linked to 99% word for word, and who set up the arthur kemp site with one post over 7 years? What evidence does Brons have the the old claims make in the kemp site are true? He can't have any can he - unless he set up that kemp site 7 years ago? He's just bullshitting. If he had more than some anon claims on an anon site (that may not even be kemp) he'd have now posted it.

I call total try-hard shenanigans.

 

[Voley]

Oh yeah, and the Panorama programme looking into the BNP's finances & troubles is due to be aired on Mon 3rd Oct. now.

Didn't know about that, ta.