nastybobby
Well-Known Member
Whenever I see FoTL 'arguments'/reasoning and the like I'm always reminded of this lady.
Billboards stating "It's illegal to use a legal name".
- Thread starter Libertad
- Start date
No. It was a business rates thing. I'd gone in to try to stop them rubber stamping a liability order and my name wasn't on any of the stuff. I didn't succeed.
But I thought I'd see what happens when you deny a magistrate jurisdiction.
I can tell you, when they ask you to stand up, and you remain sitting down, they go fucking mental. It was fairly calm up to that point. After that he bolted from the court and called security. After he came back in he spent several minutes asking me who I was in various ways ever more forcefully and not accepting, "I'm here today AS squirrelp....".
"WHO ARE YOU? WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN, I'M HERE TODAY AS squirrelp?"
I just held the same line.
The final question was, "Under the Magistrates Act nineteen something something something blah I have the power to hold you in contempt of court. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"
I had a bemused security guard right behind me.
I can tell you, my heart was beating pretty quickly.
I opened my mouth.
"I'm here today AS squirrelp, here to humbly request an adjournment...."
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
truly striking a blow fo FREEEEEEDOOOOM
captainmission
Well-Known Member
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain.
No. It was a business rates thing. I'd gone in to try to stop them rubber stamping a liability order and my name wasn't on any of the stuff. I didn't succeed.
But I thought I'd see what happens when you deny a magistrate jurisdiction.
I can tell you, when they ask you to stand up, and you remain sitting down, they go fucking mental. It was fairly calm up to that point. After that he bolted from the court and called security. After he came back in he spent several minutes asking me who I was in various ways ever more forcefully and not accepting, "I'm here today AS squirrelp....".
"WHO ARE YOU? WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN, I'M HERE TODAY AS squirrelp?"
I just held the same line.
The final question was, "Under the Magistrates Act nineteen something something something blah I have the power to hold you in contempt of court. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"
I had a bemused security guard right behind me.
I can tell you, my heart was beating pretty quickly.
I opened my mouth.
"I'm here today AS squirrelp, here to humbly request an adjournment...."
What exactly is this meant to demonstrate? You went to a liability hearing and acted like a tit. And your victory was not being thrown in the cells. Liability hearings are basically admin work that a magistrate has a stack to get through in a day. You didn't outwit them- they just can't be arsed dealing with the paper work that comes holding some preening cunt in contempt.
Maybe. And I'd admit, I thought that I wouldn't be tested too severely for exactly that reason.
but there were many interesting points about it.
The whole thing went EXACTLY as I'd prepared for, in terms of not granting the magistrate jurisdiction. I'd been warned about them going progressively more and more irate demanding my name. I was fully expecting to have security on my shoulder.
If its just a case of 'can't be arsed', why bolt from the courtroom and go bananas shouting questions and threats? These guys are generally ultra-calm.
At the end of it, the magistrate switched from being incredibly aggressive to very politely asking me to leave, which I did. I'd had enough fun by that point.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
So...again, as captainmission said, you wound up a magistrate and he couldn't be arsed to do anything about it. That's what I'm getting from your story. You can wind up a copper too and half the time he won't bother to do anything about it. The other half he might give you a kicking or throw you in the cell for a night. It's not to be recommended, or not unless you can run very fast. Another magistrate (perhaps less busy) might have held you in contempt. I'd strongly suggest you don't try to do stuff like this in court again, but since you seem set on it, could you film it for us and stick the footage up here when you do? Cheers 
captainmission
Well-Known Member
But I'm sure going in to any ones work place and declaring it's a boat that you're going to commandeer to sail to twat island will produce similar results. Magistrates can be pompous arseholes at the best of time, it's not suprising they lose their rag when you try and undermine their authority. That they change their tact from issuing threats to politely asking you to leave seem more basic human psychology than evidence of a secret parallel legal system.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
In fact, the FOTL shit is the opposite of the idea of winding up coppers and magistrates by mimicking the rules that they follow but putting in a slight difference to confuse them (which can certainly work to an extent, though likely never enough to actually get you off anything). FOTLers actually believe that there is an underlying legal secret that they're exploiting - they have "cheat codes" for the law which let them get away with not paying parking fines or whatever it is. It's not satire or civil disobedience, the whole thing is predicated on the idea that they know the _real_ law.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Bill Posters is innocent!
Idaho
blah blah blah
If the story is true, then fair do's. You could give any rationale to why it worked - from making yourself not worth the effort, to full FOTL craziness - but if it worked... Then it worked!So...again, as captainmission said, you wound up a magistrate and he couldn't be arsed to do anything about it. That's what I'm getting from your story. You can wind up a copper too and half the time he won't bother to do anything about it. The other half he might give you a kicking or throw you in the cell for a night. It's not to be recommended, or not unless you can run very fast. Another magistrate (perhaps less busy) might have held you in contempt. I'd strongly suggest you don't try to do stuff like this in court again, but since you seem set on it, could you film it for us and stick the footage up here when you do? Cheers
In the 17th century you could get away with anything once if you could recite a Bible verse; therefore proving yourself a clergyman and subject only to the ecclesiastical courts - which had helpfully been abolished 300 years earlier. Also you could refuse to plead - which slowed the whole thing down... But then you got crushed with weights until you entered a plea.
The point being that there are always little grifts and fads regarding law dodging.
Idaho
blah blah blah
Most grifts require some balls and luck.
I would just like to point out the theory I understood behind this question. Posters may be familiar with the phrase, "do you understand?" at the end of the arrest speech the police give you. It's considered a move to obtain jurisdiction. Why do the police say it? Are they going to not arrest you if you say no? I doubt it. Pertinently whatever you say or do to this question is recorded carefully.
The theory I was ascribing to holds that I could have been thrown in jail if I had said, "yes", "no", remained silent, or produced a smart-arsed response such as "I overstand" all of which would have granted jurisdiction to the magistrate.
That's the theory, anyway.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
newbie
undisambiguated
likesfish
You can't park here sir
The old military justice system you could always opt for courts Martial if you didnt want the CO's punishment and if it was a minor charge or obviously bullshit the courts martial would remain pending forever.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
I stand under now, you're an end bell
bimble
floofy
They're not racists silly, they're just people who perceive the deeper hidden connections that the MSM and the CIA and Mossad don't want you to know about. At least Squirrelp had the good grace to acknowledge the other day that maybe the CIA did not in fact invent the term 'conspiracy theorist'.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's not a move to obtain jurisdiction. It's to defend against later legal challenge within the system. The jurisdiction already obtains and doesn't need establishing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
As if there can be individually assented to jurisdiction ffs
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
Sorry to come to this thread late , but you sound like a complete tit
newbie
undisambiguated
nah, they're just people with a nasty, racist, outlook.They're not racists silly, they're just people who perceive the deeper hidden connections that the MSM and the CIA and Mossad don't want you to know about. At least Squirrelp had the good grace to acknowledge the other day that maybe the CIA did not in fact invent the term 'conspiracy theorist'.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Seems like pretty poor showing for magistrates to be administering the law differentially based on whether they can be arsed or not.
Idaho
blah blah blah
Welcome to planet earth.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
And if the justice system has a dirty secret it's precisely that: that judgments can and do depend on the beak's mood, whether or not they like you, their class and/or race prejudices. In theory the appeal system should ensure greater consistency, but some of the prejudices are likely to extend throughout the system and if you're not rich then you may not be able to appeal, so there's presumably more consistency in decisions for the rich.
This is all stuff that has to some extent been studied and the mechanisms of it can be explained. I'm very curious to know how squirrelp thinks his secret version of law works. The law of England and Wales is laid out in textbooks which anyone can buy/steal/borrow if they have the mind to. So is there a day in judges' training when the lecturer says: "Right folks, shut up your textbooks. This bit of the law isn't in there. Here's the secret law that only the select few can know." What are the chances this is happening and none of those trainee judges/magistrates get indignant and blow the whistle? Seriously, I'd like to know how you think this works squirrelp.
As for the perception the fotl stuff works, a lot of people think drinking orange juice can help get rid of a cold. The evidence says this isn't true, but sometimes people will drink orange juice and their cold will get better. Because it was about to get better anyway. But that doesn't mean drinking orange juice gets rid of the cold. People's perceptions are often mistaken.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
confirmation bias^
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