Belgium swings further to the right

[greenman]

With the media concentrating on the first round of the National Assembly elections in France where Sarkozy is set to amass a heavy parliamentary majority to impose his French version of Thatcherism, little attention has been paid to Belgium, which is also swinging right.

In the Belgian election held at the weekend the coalition of the Liberal PM Verhofstadt and his "socialist" and regionalist allies were swept from power by the Christian Democrats and their right-liberal allies. Neo-liberalism is in the ascendant in Belgium and the far right and populist vote is stronger than in France, where Sarkozy has stolen Le Pen's thunder.

Wiki on Belgian election.

Belgium has an unfamiliar system with multiple parties due to the divide of the country into Flemish and Francophone regions.
In voting for the house of representatives Christian Democrat-aligned parties gained 24.57% of the vote and 40 seats and Liberals 24.35%, but the liberals are themselves split between centrists (18 seats) and neo-liberal "reformers" (23 seats). Socialist and centrist-regionalist parties gained 21.12% (34 seats). The far right Vlaams Belang vote stayed steady at around 12% which gave them 17 seats. The French speaking Front National won another seat, taking the far right to 18. In addition the new, populist right, "Fortuynist" party, the List Dedecker got 4.03% and 5 seats. Grim stuff.

The one positive note is that unlike in France where the centrist Green Party plunged to defeat along with the Communist Party, seen as compromised and unfit for purpose, in Belgium the two Green Parties staged a comeback to take 9.08% of the vote and 12 seats between them. This can in part be accounted for by the Greens distancing themselves from the centrist government and its shoddy right-shifting compromises, leading to the green parties recovering a constituency of voters on the left.

 

[nino_savatte]

We really are witnessing the Age of the Self. Very depressing.

 

[Megaton]

We really are witnessing the Age of the Self. Very depressing.

The 1980's all over again? Though they probably never ended.

 

[Lock&Light]

We really are witnessing the Age of the Self. Very depressing.

The Age of Self has existed since the dawn of time, nino, and indeed shows little sign of ending.

 

[Fruitloop]

Bzzzt - wrong! Crap history.

 

[nino_savatte]

The Age of Self has existed since the dawn of time, nino, and indeed shows little sign of ending.

Stop following me around, will you? You're talking out of your arse too.

 

[STFC]

All very encouraging. Shame there's no chance of a swing to the Right in the UK for the forseeable future.

 

[Fruitloop]

How much further to the right would you like to go? Pogroms? Gay burnings?

 

[STFC]

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Fruitloop]

No, I'm interested. I mean, we don't have habeous corpus and all those other lefty affectations, the super rich are immesurably super-richer and pay essentially no tax, and the country participates in kidnapping brown folk and whisking them away to be tortured and killed - what is it you still want?

There's just no pleasing some people IMO.

 

[Aldebaran]

little attention has been paid to Belgium, which is also swinging right.

mmm... No. Where on earth do they get that?

In the Belgian election held at the weekend the coalition of the Liberal PM Verhofstadt and his "socialist" and regionalist allies were swept from power by the Christian Democrats and their right-liberal allies.

Nonsense non-information. I followed this "live" so to speak (all my Belgian relatives are Liberal voters and one of my friends on the list standing for election)

The cartel CD&V/NVA (Christen Democratisch & Vlaams/Nieuw-Vlaamse Alliantie. Which translates as : Christian-Democratic&Flemish/New Flemish Alliance) won the elections in Flanders.
You can hardly call that cartel in which Christian-democrats hold the vast majority and NV-A is only a minor player "right-liberal", let alone "Neo-Liberal". They have nothing to see with Liberalism at all.
The only liberals in Flanders are OpenVLD and the newcomer "Lijst Dedecker" who is a former member of OpenVLD thrown out of the party only 3 months ago. His succes is a bit of a surprise but he is a known sportsman and former trainer of the Belgian Olympic Team (Judo, if I recall well). He got the populist vote and it is expected to see his voters soon return to their former base.
Analysts think he stole a great deal of his votes from OpenVLD, but also some of Vlaams Belang.

Neo-liberalism is in the ascendant in Belgium and the far right and populist vote is stronger than in France, where Sarkozy has stolen Le Pen's thunder.

I really don't see how anyone can paint an extreme right party like Vlaams Belang "Neo-Liberals"
????
Vlaams Belang is on the retrograde too, slowly but steadily. They are excluded from taking active part in governing anyway and hence always doomed to the opposition, everywhere (which I don't find democratic but it is the Belgian reaction on their extreme-right programme).

Belgium has an unfamiliar system with multiple parties due to the divide of the country into Flemish and Francophone regions.

1. It is not "unfamiliar". It is the normal system in a democracy.
2. This was a Federal Election, hence the division of seats follows the law applying to Federal governing in a bi-cameral system. (chamber and senate)

An overview of the seats:
Chamber
http://www.vrtnieuws.net/cm/vrtnieuws.net/verkiezingen07/zetels_kamer
Senate:
http://www.vrtnieuws.net/cm/vrtnieuws.net/verkiezingen07/zetels_senaat

The Liberals =OpenVLD and MR (Mouvement Réformateur, the French Liberals) already made a pre-election front in support of Verhofstadt and as you can see, this front still has the most seats in both chambers. The more since CDH (Centre Démocrate Humaniste) the French Christian Democrats is only a small party and already stated not to seek a cooperation with the Flemish "brothers".

The great loss of this election goes to the Socialists. Everyone who somewhat follows Belgian politics isn't surprized, they had some truly stumbling fools on federal and on communal level. Charleroi, especially, knows socialist corruption scandals I can remember of since I was a child. It looks as if the last ones finally broke the socialist strenght in the French part of Belgium. Elio Di Rupo now sacked the whole lot and as far as I hear yesterday, he brought Charleroi direct under Party Control. (A strange precedent and as far as I can assess bordering illegality but I didn't hear all the details yet.)

The green (Groen and Ecolo) did well but they are far from forming a party that could assert decisive influence in Belgian politics.

This can in part be accounted for by the Greens distancing themselves from the centrist government and its shoddy right-shifting compromises, leading to the green parties recovering a constituency of voters on the left.

No. It has to do with the growing awareness for environmental issues and with the compassion of the Belgian electorate
Groen was reduced to close to nothing the former federal elections and although that was a reaction to their messing up thing while they were for once allowed to take part in governing, this punishment was felt as a bit harsh. They made beginning of a come-back last municipal elections and this trend is confirmed.

Whomever the King appoints as informer to speak with all parties involved, shall find it very difficult to bring such diverse programs to unity.
It is always a problem in Belgium but this time, with the Flemish socialists already chosing for the opposition and CD&V/NVA and combined Liberals having so many ideological and political gaps to close... I think it shall take some weeks before Belgium has a new federal government. (I don't exclude the possibility of Verhofstadt returning as premier either.)

salaam.

 

[greenman]

Aldebaran - I was talking of neo-liberalism in economic terms rather than social liberalism, which I am sure is more variable across the political spectrum in Belgium. If you look at the economic policies of the majority of the parties, the fair description for most of them is "neo-liberal" - I was moderately surprised to see, on reading up, that even the far rightists in Belgium appear to follow neo-liberal economics ,albeit with a national slant, rather than the more "statist" economic policies typical of the British far right. The VB may have lost one seat but their percentage is virtually unchanged - I would like to believe you that they are declining, but it does not seem like that from the result. The Dedecker list seem to have been quite openly playing to social reactionary views (hence as you admit attracting some former far right sympathisers) and combining them with extreme economic liberalism. Yet this does not seem to have reduced the right vote, but given it a new, more populist, vehicle.

I will accept you have more knowledge on the likely horse-trading, as with the CDH not going along with the CDs. I understand the leader of the CDs is a "bit of a maverick" and not a "traditional" Christian Democrat?
Whatever, the election is a shift to the right, whether Verhofstadt makes a comeback or not. It is of little consequence whether this is due to incompetence or corruption involving the socialists - it is still a shift to the right, with the socialists likely to be marginalised.

I said unfamiliar as in it might be "unfamiliar" to a majority of UK-based posters not aware of the multiplicity of parties with similiar ideologies facilitated by the linguistic divide in Belgium.

I will take your word for it that a new government will take some time to form, but I stand by my opinion that it will be to the right of the previous one, socially, and probably economically.

 

[lewislewis]

The Belgian system is unfamiliar indeed to the UK, but not to most other parts of Europe.
The main reason for these results are not necessarily a rightward shift but the sheer corruption and laziness of the Social Democrats. My Flemish friend though a leftist tells me that the ruling party just had to go the way it was behaving and misruling, posters should start thinking that sometimes it is really down to national and local factors rather than an ideological trend across Europe which has so many national, linguistic and cultural boundaries!

 

[Jean-Luc]

Don't forget that voting in Belgium is compulsory, though you can cast a blank vote even with electronic voting -- that's kind of them since there's no provision for this in the various experiment in electronic voting in this country (if you don't want to vote for any of them here, the only choice is not to vote at all or perhaps to jam the voting machine).
Have any of the Belgian psephologists here got any figures on the numbers and percentage of blank votes?

 

[Lock&Light]

Stop following me around, will you? You're talking out of your arse too.

Stupid boy!

 

[nino_savatte]

Stupid boy!

On the contrary, you are stupid (and obsessive) for following me around.

 

[Lock&Light]

On the contrary, you are stupid (and obsessive) for following me around.

For a long time your idiocy has been amusing me, but I have to say I'm gradually getting bored with you. Why can't you put me, and keep me, on ignore? My responses to your postings are not intended for your reading as you have proved many times to be incapable of understanding plain English.

 

[nino_savatte]

For a long time your idiocy has been amusing me, but I have to say I'm gradually getting bored with you. Why can't you put me, and keep me, on ignore? My responses to your postings are not intended for your reading as you have proved many times to be incapable of understanding plain English.

You're projecting again, Lock. Why do you keep following me around when you were told to desist by Fridgemagnet? I'll answer that: you think that you are above reproach and above the FAQs. You have nothing whatsoever to contribute but snide remarks. Face it, most people here, including the mods, think you're a nuisance.

Your obsession with me (because that is what is is and you can deny it as much as you want) is getting to the point now, where I think that you really need psychiatric help...though it is unlikely that you will seek help and will continue to pollute these boards with your pathetic snipes.

You reply to my posts to make yourself feel better. Your life is shite and, in order to give yourself an ego lift, you follow me around and make pointlessly snide remarks.

You have tried to derail this thread, as you have with many others.

The only person you are fooling is you. Now kindly fuck off and die.

 

[Lock&Light]

You're projecting again, Lock. Why do you keep following me around when you were told to desist by Fridgemagnet? I'll answer that: you think that you are above reproach and above the FAQs. You have nothing whatsoever to contribute but snide remarks. Face it, most people here, including the mods, think you're a nuisance.

Your obsession with me (because that is what is is and you can deny it as much as you want) is getting to the point now, where I think that you really need psychiatric help...though it is unlikely that you will seek help and will continue to pollute these boards with your pathetic snipes.

You reply to my posts to make yourself feel better. Your life is shite and, in order to give yourself a lift, you follow me around and make pointlessly snide remarks.

You have tried to derail this thread, as you have with many others.

The only person you are fooling is you. Now kindly fuck off and die.

Stupid boy!

 

[nino_savatte]

Posts reported.

 

[Lock&Light]

Posts reported.

Stupid boy!

 

[Aldebaran]

Aldebaran - I was talking of neo-liberalism in economic terms rather than social liberalism, which I am sure is more variable across the political spectrum in Belgium.

mm... I'm not an economist but I don't see a much difference in the economical approach of the Belgian Socialists, Christan Democrats, Liberals and even Vlaams Belang.
The only difference between the OpenVLD and the others is that their focus is national as well as international, and that the others are alomst exclusively focussing on the economical welfare of Flanders. (In Flemish that is known as "kerktorenpolitiek", litteraly: "churchtowerpolitics". Which translates as having a provincial, closed-minded attitude and ideology). No surprize there, since the leader of CD&V is the PM of Flanders and wants to abandon that responsibility to become Belgian's premier. It is hence feared that if this becomes reality, his focus on Flanders (up to calling for independence, if not in so many words) shall hinder the federal government. In my view this can only add to the difficulties informing a new federal government.

The VB may have lost one seat but their percentage is virtually unchanged - I would like to believe you that they are declining, but it does not seem like that from the result.

No, you need to understand subtleties of Belgian politics to notice that. VB is loosing steadily in its base (Antwerpen) and seeking to convince voters far outside its usual recruiting ground. A limited public, not even that interested in their program but only giving them their vote as a protest (which is how it began in Antwerpen too).
They are by default at all levels of Belgian policies doomed to the opposition role. Their voters hence know all too well VB can never push its program to become part of the political reality. This supports my claim that they get the public's protest vote, much more then popular support for their actual program.
In my view, would they take part in governments it would be the beginning of their end (look at Haider in Austria) and Although they have ballisters and/or jurists aong their leading politicians, much of their program is in its principles unreconciable with Belgian Law, to begin with.

The Dedecker list seem to have been quite openly playing to social reactionary views (hence as you admit attracting some former far right sympathisers) and combining them with extreme economic liberalism. Yet this does not seem to have reduced the right vote, but given it a new, more populist, vehicle.

I odn't see Dedecker as right-wing. Heo nly made "an opening" towards VB to play into their voting base.

I understand the leader of the CDs is a "bit of a maverick" and not a "traditional" Christian Democrat?

I call him " a Jezuit" which in Belgian perception is not a favourable thing to say . He is -at the moment - far too much obsessed with the Flemish interests for me to see him capable to function as Belgian's premier. You must give everyone the benefit of the doubt, though.

Whatever, the election is a shift to the right, whether Verhofstadt makes a comeback or not.

No, it isn't. It is a shift toward further federalistion, if the dreams of Leterme come true. OpenVLD supports a further State Reform, but with as starting point dialogue and compromise, instead of ego-centric confrontation.

with the socialists likely to be marginalised.

No no, it is impossible to marginalise the socialists in Belgium. The PS lost but is nevertheless still almost as trong as the MR and in Flanders the SP shall soon enough recover. They pay the price of two terms of governing a bit more then OpenVld, at the advantage of the CD&V/NVA who were upto now in the opposition. It is normal that an opposition party having that much time to play into the popular vote succeeds in convincing a part of the public in their favour. Especially in a country where voting is compulsory this is a regularly returning phenomenon.

[qutoe]that it will be to the right of the previous one, socially, and probably economically.[/QUOTE]

I don't see this happening. (to understand this you must read the programs of the various parties and see where they contrast, especially on the social program).I fear that it risks to be far too much focussed on differences between the communities.

salaam.

 

[kyser_soze]

...Belgian psephologists..

Possibly the scariest thing I have ever read...

 

[Aldebaran]

...Belgian psephologists..

Possibly the scariest thing I have ever read...

Me too. I had to look the word up.

I'm tired now.

After recovering I looked to find the federal portal. Here some of the English page.

http://polling2007.belgium.be/en/cha/results/results_graph_etop.html

http://polling2007.belgium.be/en/sen/results/results_graph_etop.html

salaam.
marks once more how it spoon-feeds the English-Only citizens of this world. How on earth is that ever going to encourage them to leanr some languages?

 

[kyser_soze]

Come on Aldy, they've even got a little link for En speakers on the homepage

 

[Aldebaran]

Last thing I heard a few minutes ago is that Didier Reynders of the MR is appointed the informer = hthe one who must talk to all parties together to see how a government can be constructed.
Hm...
I also heard from my political friend a -very personal- wish that the OpenVLD would drop the whole thing and hence force the country into new elections
Is not going to happen of course, but we were joking about how Reynders, who said at election day to never support a further State Reform, is going to approach Leterme, who made of this issue his central theme and in fact is seen as wanting no less than quasi indepence for Flanders.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Come on Aldy, they've even got a little link for En speakers on the homepage

Of course. Would I be Belgian, I would formally object

salaam.

 

[Peet]

All very encouraging. Shame there's no chance of a swing to the Right in the UK for the forseeable future.

Yes indeed a shame. I'm wondering how much more of this tax and squander regime we can handle.

I don't see it happening until the benfit funds run dry. Nothing like electoral bribes to keep people politically complient.

 

[Peet]

We really are witnessing the Age of the Self. Very depressing.

Nah. People are just fed up with the moral inversion created by the left which leads to ever more totalitarian measures to curb individual liberty and don't want anymore of their money being handed to dubious causes by governments who know only how to spend money but not create any.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nah. People are just fed up with the moral inversion created by the left which leads to ever more totalitarian measures to curb individual liberty and don't want anymore of their money being handed to dubious causes by governments who know only how to spend money but not create any.

"Totalitarian measures"? What? You're off your heid. The last time I checked, Belgium wasn't a "totalitarian" country nor has it ever had a Stalinist administration.