Deareg
Well-Known Member
Some of the older members were involved with Red Action and AFA in the late 80's early 90's.
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
- Thread starter cogg
- Start date
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Amusing to read that AFA were apparently persuaded by Quakers against 're-educating' some fascists at Uxbridge.
Lucky bastards.
Can't imagine the peaceniks having the same influence subsequent to the hardliner 'coup' in 1989 though.
bignose1
Searchlight Spoiler
Stuart Millson ex Federation of Conservative Students latterly of the BNP. During NUS national conference in Blackpool circa 1984/5 he proclaimed from the conference floor ''Hang Nelson Mandela''. Unfortunately he had to walk past the Manchester Poly contingent which he did unsuccessfully. A call to ban certain delegates of said Poly for taking such action was defeated after a impassioned speech by myself in its defence. The MCR Poly delegates recieved tumultous applause and couldnt pay for a drink for the rest of the week. I actually think, on reading what they were saying the FCS at that time were more viscious and unpleasant than the BNP/NF et al.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
I thought one or two people on this thread might be interested in this article by Ian Walker that appeared in New Society in 1980:
Simon says
It's just a short piece covering Excalibur House, which was the NF's HQ in Hackney in the late seventies and early eighties, and about the infiltration of the NF by an anarchist who worked on the NF's security team defending EH.
I'm a longstanding fan of Walker's work and I've been putting his articles on the net for a few years now. (If and when I find them.) If you like his style, you can also check out some of his other New Society articles at the following link: Ian Walker's Other Britain articles.
Simon says
It's just a short piece covering Excalibur House, which was the NF's HQ in Hackney in the late seventies and early eighties, and about the infiltration of the NF by an anarchist who worked on the NF's security team defending EH.
I'm a longstanding fan of Walker's work and I've been putting his articles on the net for a few years now. (If and when I find them.) If you like his style, you can also check out some of his other New Society articles at the following link: Ian Walker's Other Britain articles.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
That's a nice piece imposs - does anyone know when the NF left "Excalibur House"? Seems to have been the main prize in their post 79 factional fighting.
The building would be worth millions today... (it's now a language school, ha ha!)
The building would be worth millions today... (it's now a language school, ha ha!)
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Simon is the anarchist infiltrater and Day is the fash. Interesting challenge to the classic fash are all petty bourgeoise clap trap that we get on here from some posters
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
shirtfront uk combat 18 thread is bubbling along nicely. 2 posters supplying plenty of info from the sargant camp and the browning camp. must read!!!!
miktheword
Well-Known Member
Fighting Talk , Micky Fenn interview is at the start of Part 2 on Youtube. On other sites too, including TAL, I think.
Red Storm
M14
Ah it's the open spaces one. I didn't realise it was on the BBC.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
i cant believe this but an almost coherent argument on shirtfront about EDL/islamist!!! no really!!
http://wwwDOTst0rmfrontdotorg/forum/t859502-6/
mods! dont know how to break link etc
http://wwwDOTst0rmfrontdotorg/forum/t859502-6/
mods! dont know how to break link etc
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
shirtfront combat 18 thread is also full of info on sargant!
Red Storm
M14
Link?
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
wwwDOTst0rmfrontDOTorg/forum/t860216-5/
full of info on his grassing as well as framing ian stuart after 'stabbing a queer.' incredible. anyone know where sargent is and when hes out? i think he got 18 years so he shd be out soon.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
also, C18 AFA confrontations seem few. enkell arms and old street do mentioned in white riot and a couple of incidents in BTF. must have been more surely?
Deareg
Well-Known Member
Loads of "minor" skirmishes which left quite a few of them badly injured.
intersol32
Well-Known Member
A couple of posters are really spilling the beans on there. Had to stop after a while as my head was aching. Some amusing stuff about the Sargent brothers and the branch, particularly how the SB kept using them to try to lift people in possession of racist CDs and that 'Black Copy' of the C18 mag. Seems like they'd attempted a bust several times only to find Steve Sargent being the only one holding the goods, so had to let him go.
Is Steve Sargent locked up aswell? Or is he no longer politically active?
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
no he wasnt implicated. he was always more propaganda than physical with lots of very tedious fash zines like the thors plonker etc. he comes across as a sad loser.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
i also think he talked quite a bit to lowles cos he is quoted a lot in WhiteRiot.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
come on you tease! details, juicy details!
If he told you all... he'd have to kill you.
intersol32
Well-Known Member
The Bolton Loyalist March (with C18 doing their security I think) was another one. This is outlined briefly in BTF and No Retreat as I recall. As East Midlands had no input regarding the organising of the attempt to stop it, I can only describe events from my own point of view.
There was about a dozen or so of us, who'd travelled up to Manchester then got a lift with Bolton people who took us the rest of the way. We'd waited in a pub for what seemed like bloody ages. Finally someone came in and gave the word to move, and I remember being directed across a large car park. Not far away was a street leading up a hill to where we could see lines of cops, and the Fash plus Loyalist bandsmen (the latter playing music and forming up).
We all moved forwards and I remember some guys on the left-hand side walking towards us. One was wearing a totenkopf/C18 t-shirt. I remember his face, he had short brown hair with a fringe and he was smiling at us. He quickly stopped as everyone went at them and they were sort of pushed up against a wall taking a kicking. The funniest thing at this moment was seeing 'N' one of the Birmingham lads run across the street to aim a high kick at one of them, and splitting his jeans straight along the crotch.
The madness was added to as I looked up the road and the cops (along with several mounted police) came rushing at us. By this point some of the AFA people had got closer to the march and were being hemmed in (I think?) next to a church which had a wall and fence overlooking a drop into another car park on the side (correct me if I'm wrong here). As the cops were pushing into them I saw a number of people climb and lower themselves over the fence and drop down. Impressive because it was a fair way down.
Forward of me in the street, by about three steps, was PB from Leeds AFA. I watched as a police dog handler's Alsatian (with its fur almost standing up on end) grab PB by the arm, and he just dropped to the floor. It was pretty fucking horrible. I later was told he'd been arrested, charged and was finally given a prison sentence. By the time of the mauling by the mutt, people were streaming back down towards me with the cops giving chase.
We left the area after meeting up again. Laughing about the Brummie's split jeans, and being told that the march had been cancelled. Although PB's arrest, and hearing that he'd been injured, sobered the mood somewhat.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
great stuff. thanks for that!
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Is this all going in your book?
In response to malatesta’s appeal for first-hand accounts I would like to offer the following. It is not about a violent street confrontation but about a meeting which precipitated and shaped later events. If you are gonna read it, you might wanna get yourself a cuppa first. Malatesta you can feel free to use it for your book or print it out and wipe your arse on it.
It is my recollection of one small little incident which, for me, captures the mood and atmosphere of the times and also had a fundamental ripple-out effect…
One Saturday afternoon in 1989(?) a meeting was called at the Red Rose in Finsbury Park to re-launch AFA. There was much residual (and mutual) suspicion between Red Action (and their fellow-travellers) and the semi-state sector (Newham Monitoring Group and various ‘right-on’ lefties) from previous history - but it was a political and operational imperative that a way to work together was found.
In fairness to those centred around the NMP, there were some very capable, principled, hard-working activists among them, but there were fundamental political, tactical, strategic and social differences between them and us – and there were also some of (what we saw as) the worst examples of hysterical, white middle-class, lifestyle lefties .
Thus we were all on our best behaviour even though it was clear that some of our essentially white, middle-class ‘comrades’ were bristling with self-righteous indignation and just looking for an excuse to walk out shaking their heads at what they perceived to be the somewhat rough and ready manners and manner of our lot.
The NMP and their allies turned up with somebody new in tow. He was a young black community activist from Broadwater Farm. I think his name was Rupert. It was clear that he was their new working class champion… and he was black too don’t you know. Tbh it was a bit embarrassing watching them fawn over him and he had obviously been fore-warned about us. I was immediately struck at how their reactions to, and behaviour around, him were at odds with their hostility to many of our own, more hairy-arsed, comrades and the only difference I could see was skin colour.
Our reaction to him – as it was to anybody else - was to see what he had to say and offer rather than making any such judgements based on where he was from or his colour. If he was sound then he was a sound no matter – and equally, if he was a prick then he was a prick and we could not really give a fuck what estate or background he was from. He looked and dressed like a Norf London geezer rather than a Lefty, but he did arrive wearing a beret .
Anyways the meeting got underway and was very polite to begin with as we all danced around the sensibilities of others and various differences in strategies and tactics, but the underlying tension was never far from the surface. The MNP were at pains to get Rupert’s input and opinion on everything , on account of him knowing the word ‘on the street’ and everything (I assume they thought we lived in a reservation for lumpy proles or something. But then we were mostly white so what would we know about the problems ‘the black community’ faced).
Still progress was made over the next (interminable) hour and a half as each side outlined where they felt things had collapsed in the past and how mutual ground must be found. It seemed to me that every time one of our mob spoke the reaction was to their language and speaking style rather than what they said. I fell foul of this when I referred to something as ‘clearly a load of old bollocks’. Some of us may have included a ‘fuck’ or two as well but only as conversational punctuation, certainly not directed at any person. At this point a particularly shrill middle-class woman jumped up and interrupted me (which was something we had been at pains not to do to them).
She started banging on about swearing, how offensive she found it and how she could not imagine sending the likes of me in to speak to a Asian women’s group. I replied neither could I and why would anybody send me to do a job that would obviously be more suited to a woman and probably an Asian one. Surely this was a matter of horses for courses and that was the idea of this meeting? We felt that in the past the Left had concentrated far too much on aiming it’s activity and propaganda at the victims of racism. We were proposing that as well as this AFA should work in and among the potential recruits of racist organisations - the disaffected white working class – and that required a different skillset and language.
Neither was it a matter of either ‘jaw, jaw’ or ‘war, war’ but of both. Not of propaganda Vs street activity but of both together. I finished by saying I was sorry she did not like the way we spoke but that we all had roles to play, I did not see mine and her roles overlapping too much and if she was so offended by a couple of swear words then frankly I did not give a flying fuck.
There was uproar and I caught a sideways-look from some of our senior people as I had set off the very thing we had all been told to avoid – and it was now in full swing.
A shouting match broke out and the Chair (one of them of course, as they would have sulked if it was one of us) struggled to hold it together and to ‘Chair’ rather than join in on one side. Suddenly Rupert arose from his front row seat. Immediately the Chair demanded silence for his new Comrade from the Farm. Given that about a dozen people were all waiting to speak this was not exactly how things should be. But this was Rupert. He was from Broadwater Farm. He was working class AND black which made him ‘special’. The NMP lot fell silent as their champion held the floor.
In fairness we were all interested in what he had to say too.
“ I tried to come to this meeting with an open mind. We are all in this thing together, y’know what I mean? So despite what I was told about people beforehand , I come to meet people, make friends and find ways we could work together. I have to say I am absolutely gutted by what’s gone on here today.” Well said Rupert they enthused and nodded knowingly to each other.
“From the very start there was a bad atmosphere and a bad attitude from some people in this room. Look at it now - you could cut the atmosphere with a knife. This ain’t no way to carry on, people.” And on he went. By now the murmurings of enthusiastic endorsement were becoming more pronounced and they were clapping his every remark as he warmed to his task.
“It’s obvious that one group in here are genuine. One group are ready and willing to work together. But the other group don’t wanna listen to no-one else, they just think the other mob are wrong all the time. They’ve basically got a BAD attitude. They are just insulting. It’s pathetic and it’s just plain wrong”. By now they were besides themselves with glee and cheered his every word as he tore into the ‘bad guys’.
Until, that is… when Rupert turned round… looked at them with a look of pure “WTF” and said “What’s the matter with you people? What are you lot clapping for? I ain’t talking about THEM… I’m talking about YOU!”
This stopped them in their tracks and they sat open-mouthed as he continued (they could not interrupt him of course, or shout him down. How could they? After all he was THEIR champion. He was working class, he was black and (I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this but) he was from Broadwater Farm.
“All you lot seem to care about is if people use big words and talk like you or not. If they don’t, you don’t listen. Why can’t you just listen to what they’re saying, instead of how they say it? My first experience with the NF was when I got hit on the head with a bottle and called ‘nigger’ on Tottenham High road – by some geezer who two days before had been in our flat fitting the gas. Now if those days are coming back with the BNP, I know who I want watching my back and it ain’t fackin you lot… ”
The loud silence was by now only broken by the laughter we were all doing our best (unsuccessfully) to hold in. All I could see was the shock on their faces, the anguished looks of betrayal - and the shoulders of several burly men shaking as they tried to restrict themselves to a polite chuckle instead of the belly-laugh such a turnaround deserved.
He finished by apologising if he had hurt anybody’s feelings but said this shit was too important to let people’s feelings get in the way and sat down to a big round applause – from us.
Strangely, this frank reality check had a very positive effect on the proceedings. Of course some of them would never get over their own prejudices and offended sensibilities but it sort of shook the best of them from their self-constructed cocoon and they began to engage positively. I doubt this would have happened without Rupert’s intervention.
The relationship between RA, DAM etc and those in the ‘nicer’ anti-racist sector was always a little strained, but good people from both sides found ways to work together in common cause for a considerable length of time.
Funnily enough, I don’t recall ever seeing Rupert in their company again.
But if you are reading this Rupert, I salute you and I still laugh like fuck when I recall the moment you - spurred by honesty and an ability to see and state the blindingly obvious - turned on your ‘sponsors’.
It is my recollection of one small little incident which, for me, captures the mood and atmosphere of the times and also had a fundamental ripple-out effect…
One Saturday afternoon in 1989(?) a meeting was called at the Red Rose in Finsbury Park to re-launch AFA. There was much residual (and mutual) suspicion between Red Action (and their fellow-travellers) and the semi-state sector (Newham Monitoring Group and various ‘right-on’ lefties) from previous history - but it was a political and operational imperative that a way to work together was found.
In fairness to those centred around the NMP, there were some very capable, principled, hard-working activists among them, but there were fundamental political, tactical, strategic and social differences between them and us – and there were also some of (what we saw as) the worst examples of hysterical, white middle-class, lifestyle lefties .
Thus we were all on our best behaviour even though it was clear that some of our essentially white, middle-class ‘comrades’ were bristling with self-righteous indignation and just looking for an excuse to walk out shaking their heads at what they perceived to be the somewhat rough and ready manners and manner of our lot.
The NMP and their allies turned up with somebody new in tow. He was a young black community activist from Broadwater Farm. I think his name was Rupert. It was clear that he was their new working class champion… and he was black too don’t you know. Tbh it was a bit embarrassing watching them fawn over him and he had obviously been fore-warned about us. I was immediately struck at how their reactions to, and behaviour around, him were at odds with their hostility to many of our own, more hairy-arsed, comrades and the only difference I could see was skin colour.
Our reaction to him – as it was to anybody else - was to see what he had to say and offer rather than making any such judgements based on where he was from or his colour. If he was sound then he was a sound no matter – and equally, if he was a prick then he was a prick and we could not really give a fuck what estate or background he was from. He looked and dressed like a Norf London geezer rather than a Lefty, but he did arrive wearing a beret .
Anyways the meeting got underway and was very polite to begin with as we all danced around the sensibilities of others and various differences in strategies and tactics, but the underlying tension was never far from the surface. The MNP were at pains to get Rupert’s input and opinion on everything , on account of him knowing the word ‘on the street’ and everything (I assume they thought we lived in a reservation for lumpy proles or something. But then we were mostly white so what would we know about the problems ‘the black community’ faced).
Still progress was made over the next (interminable) hour and a half as each side outlined where they felt things had collapsed in the past and how mutual ground must be found. It seemed to me that every time one of our mob spoke the reaction was to their language and speaking style rather than what they said. I fell foul of this when I referred to something as ‘clearly a load of old bollocks’. Some of us may have included a ‘fuck’ or two as well but only as conversational punctuation, certainly not directed at any person. At this point a particularly shrill middle-class woman jumped up and interrupted me (which was something we had been at pains not to do to them).
She started banging on about swearing, how offensive she found it and how she could not imagine sending the likes of me in to speak to a Asian women’s group. I replied neither could I and why would anybody send me to do a job that would obviously be more suited to a woman and probably an Asian one. Surely this was a matter of horses for courses and that was the idea of this meeting? We felt that in the past the Left had concentrated far too much on aiming it’s activity and propaganda at the victims of racism. We were proposing that as well as this AFA should work in and among the potential recruits of racist organisations - the disaffected white working class – and that required a different skillset and language.
Neither was it a matter of either ‘jaw, jaw’ or ‘war, war’ but of both. Not of propaganda Vs street activity but of both together. I finished by saying I was sorry she did not like the way we spoke but that we all had roles to play, I did not see mine and her roles overlapping too much and if she was so offended by a couple of swear words then frankly I did not give a flying fuck.
There was uproar and I caught a sideways-look from some of our senior people as I had set off the very thing we had all been told to avoid – and it was now in full swing.
A shouting match broke out and the Chair (one of them of course, as they would have sulked if it was one of us) struggled to hold it together and to ‘Chair’ rather than join in on one side. Suddenly Rupert arose from his front row seat. Immediately the Chair demanded silence for his new Comrade from the Farm. Given that about a dozen people were all waiting to speak this was not exactly how things should be. But this was Rupert. He was from Broadwater Farm. He was working class AND black which made him ‘special’. The NMP lot fell silent as their champion held the floor.
In fairness we were all interested in what he had to say too.
“ I tried to come to this meeting with an open mind. We are all in this thing together, y’know what I mean? So despite what I was told about people beforehand , I come to meet people, make friends and find ways we could work together. I have to say I am absolutely gutted by what’s gone on here today.” Well said Rupert they enthused and nodded knowingly to each other.
“From the very start there was a bad atmosphere and a bad attitude from some people in this room. Look at it now - you could cut the atmosphere with a knife. This ain’t no way to carry on, people.” And on he went. By now the murmurings of enthusiastic endorsement were becoming more pronounced and they were clapping his every remark as he warmed to his task.
“It’s obvious that one group in here are genuine. One group are ready and willing to work together. But the other group don’t wanna listen to no-one else, they just think the other mob are wrong all the time. They’ve basically got a BAD attitude. They are just insulting. It’s pathetic and it’s just plain wrong”. By now they were besides themselves with glee and cheered his every word as he tore into the ‘bad guys’.
Until, that is… when Rupert turned round… looked at them with a look of pure “WTF” and said “What’s the matter with you people? What are you lot clapping for? I ain’t talking about THEM… I’m talking about YOU!”
This stopped them in their tracks and they sat open-mouthed as he continued (they could not interrupt him of course, or shout him down. How could they? After all he was THEIR champion. He was working class, he was black and (I don’t know if I’ve mentioned this but) he was from Broadwater Farm.
“All you lot seem to care about is if people use big words and talk like you or not. If they don’t, you don’t listen. Why can’t you just listen to what they’re saying, instead of how they say it? My first experience with the NF was when I got hit on the head with a bottle and called ‘nigger’ on Tottenham High road – by some geezer who two days before had been in our flat fitting the gas. Now if those days are coming back with the BNP, I know who I want watching my back and it ain’t fackin you lot… ”
The loud silence was by now only broken by the laughter we were all doing our best (unsuccessfully) to hold in. All I could see was the shock on their faces, the anguished looks of betrayal - and the shoulders of several burly men shaking as they tried to restrict themselves to a polite chuckle instead of the belly-laugh such a turnaround deserved.
He finished by apologising if he had hurt anybody’s feelings but said this shit was too important to let people’s feelings get in the way and sat down to a big round applause – from us.
Strangely, this frank reality check had a very positive effect on the proceedings. Of course some of them would never get over their own prejudices and offended sensibilities but it sort of shook the best of them from their self-constructed cocoon and they began to engage positively. I doubt this would have happened without Rupert’s intervention.
The relationship between RA, DAM etc and those in the ‘nicer’ anti-racist sector was always a little strained, but good people from both sides found ways to work together in common cause for a considerable length of time.
Funnily enough, I don’t recall ever seeing Rupert in their company again.
But if you are reading this Rupert, I salute you and I still laugh like fuck when I recall the moment you - spurred by honesty and an ability to see and state the blindingly obvious - turned on your ‘sponsors’.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
yeah i want to use stuff that wasnt covered in BTF - which is more northern based as well as post AFA with EDL of late. i have had some great stuff from folks so far - and also liamO i wanted to nick that post you did ages ago which was rather entertaining. i think i PMd you. also that tale of intersols of the feller ripping his breeks! gold that feller!
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
cracking that liam!
cantsin
Well-Known Member
intersol32
Well-Known Member
No problem if you want to use that, or any of the other stuff I've posted.
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