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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

Joe Reilly said:
Well, it is a while since i saw it, so if YRE were interviewed, then they were. However i don't accept it was wrong to say that RA and AFA were the principle targets. In the immediate aftermath, RA was identified as the instigator of the violence by an 'anti-terrorist expert' on Radio Five live. In the London Evening Standard, in the following week,one article cited Panther and RA as the likely ones to have 'their doors kicked in' any time soon. In another article, on I think, another day, RA is accused 'of hi-jacking AFA', by another of AFA's founding members Unmesh Desai. NMP also described AFA as ' paramilitary'.

Moreover, the WIA programme was merely the culmination of conspiracy to entrap. On the day of the march AFA recieved news that a large body of C18 had assembled at Abbey Wood. The decision was taken that rather than go on the march AFA would confront them there. However the police had other ideas. The refused access to Plumstead station and we were ordered under pain of arrest to attach ourselves to the back of the march. It later emerged that the AFA contingent had already been 'body-mapped'. In other words the SB had already identified their suspects in advance, and having gone to that trouble didn't want them wandering off out of harm's way. As it happens, AFA 'wandered off' anyway. And rather perversely, out of crowd of 60,000 or so were still spotted by police helicopter and followed even though their colleagues on the ground were otherwise engaged in a full scale riot. An odd use of resources in normal circumstances wouldn't you say?

But given that, as is now widely accepted, it was effectively a riot planned and instigated by police, their actions were entirely logical. As for the WIA programme we had information that it was intended to be a hatchet job, but on balance (better to represent yourself than have others misrepresent you) decided to take part anyway. It took the WIA two hours of interview to try and get the RA and AFA reps to say what they wanted them to say. And they still failed. Incidentally from the off, they did little to hide their hostility or later their frustration at the outcome.

Incidentally, out of curiousity, do you know who contacted the 'Away Team' to take part, why did they agree to do so, and what, apart from what was broadcast, (which was?) was the YRE rep invited to comment on.
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I would agree with that Joe, if I remember right AFA/RA were the first people they looked at, also if I remember right, they interviewed an AFA/RA fella-in shadows so as to make his face unrecognisable-which surprised me. It was a programme full of surprises for me.

I remember the aftermath and the stuff re RA/AFA which I found funny given where they were that day. Deffo a fit up job those them. Panther got serious grief after the May 8th demo outside the bookshop too. No coincidence given that demo was far more 'aggressive' than previous demos past there. It was also the only one to the bookshop that the fash didn't attack or feel confident enough to attack. (There were claims they had hundreds in the shop itself but nothing materialised). Plod also got a bit of a slapping that day aswell. I think that was part of the reason for the near military behaviour of the polis on the big demo in October. They had a few agenda's that day from plod.

I deffo agree an odd use of resources yeah, there was obviously pre-concieved headlines and scaremongering going on there. To a lesser extent it happened to YRE/Militant members, as I sad as a result of the May demo.

I honestly don't know who contacted them, I knew the bloke who was interviewed in the 'shadows', I was on-as I said-a college course as was another member of the Militant. We were both a bit surprised at what we saw/heard. I can't really remember what was said by the 'Away Team' fella, if I remember right the YRE 'spokesman'-who's a mate-was given the standard you're as bad as them routine re the violence.
 
ayatollah said:
Yet another , timely, good example from Joe of the lengths the state will go to entrap Lefties they have a dislike for - as are the recent court cases involving "outed" deep entry cops in various progressive campaigns. I particularly liked the case some time ago of the undercover cop who became a part of a "radical streetclown" (!!) group , for OVER A YEAR ! Mind you there was a state informer in the top circles of CND for over 30 years apparently. And of course the informer Roger Rosewall was on the IS/SWP Central Committee for 20 years or so, part of the time being national industrial organiser.

So the lesson for all activist Lefties as always is "if he/she looks decidedly dodgy, he/she might well be - so take care". Restrained paranoia can be a survival trait.
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Having a undercover cops as part of 'radical streetclown' and also the targetting of totally passive enviromental groups, strikes me as more than a little bizarre and more than a little bit Eastern Bloc.

Is it that there are too many undercover cops to go around?

Or is that the conventional Left is already over-subscribed -or- alternatively being as 'peaceful' by and large 'as a pond full of ducks' is simply not worth bothering about?
 
The environmental protests of the 80s and 90s really embarrassed the cops as they didn't know wtf was going on. The decision to infiltrate environmental groups may have had more to do with protecting their own image than anything else.
 
Can't have done much for the "locker room cred" of the undercover cops in the environmental groups can it... swapping "dangerous moments" lads talk ... " yeh well , there's more danger to knocking up a bender tent than you'd think .... and as for that veggie bean curd salad......

I remember turning up in Manchester in the early 70's for a very minor fracas with a pathetically small march by John Tyndall and his NF chums - in the early days when we tended to hurl insults rather than bricks, and who should scream up in their undercover motor to intercept us, but Manchester Police's very own Starsky and Hutch !.... the outfits they wore, were pure Starsky and Hutch casual wear (for anyone old enough to remember)... but the car... it was... a Morris Minor. I remember both fascists and anti fascists had to stop proceedings for a moment to have a swift snigger at the unfortunate cop's low budget wheels . Mind you it might have looked a bit cooler with that big white arrow stripe on it ... no, maybe not.
 
I'm thinking more cred as an organisation than as individuals - imagine Maggie Thatcher here "Well Chief Constable, what can you tell us about these road protesters?" "Um, er, could I have a glass of water?"
 
Red Storm said:
I'm going to be studying anti-fascist political violence and it's justification for my final year thesis. Hopefully concentrating on AFA.

Does anyone know of any good literature or academic works an AFA?
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mark hayes has done a bit on this, he is presenting a paper on AFa at Reading University in November, matthew worley is doing some research into fascism and punk in the 1970s and 80s, if I wasn't up to my arse in the 12th century then It would be on my list too.
 
Been informed that the World in Action documentary has been archived by the British Film Institute. Seeing if I can get a DVD or video of it now.
 
Joe Reilly said:
Having a undercover cops as part of 'radical streetclown' and also the targetting of totally passive enviromental groups, strikes me as more than a little bizarre and more than a little bit Eastern Bloc.

Is it that there are too many undercover cops to go around?

Or is that the conventional Left is already over-subscribed -or- alternatively being as 'peaceful' by and large 'as a pond full of ducks' is simply not worth bothering about?
Click to expand...

Having seen the thing about the prominence of van drivers among the ranks of undercover plod, I idly googled a certain van driver from the Hackney area who disappeared in mysterious circumstances a decade ago (at the time that street activities were clearly changing into above board legit political campaigning) and wasn't surprised to see an interesting indymedia post about him from Feb this year.

Now their MO might be too obvious (and the Low Emission Zone is set to play havoc with their vans) what's their next tactic? Skateboards?
 
Joe Reilly said:
Having a undercover cops as part of 'radical streetclown' and also the targetting of totally passive enviromental groups, strikes me as more than a little bizarre and more than a little bit Eastern Bloc.

Is it that there are too many undercover cops to go around?

Or is that the conventional Left is already over-subscribed -or- alternatively being as 'peaceful' by and large 'as a pond full of ducks' is simply not worth bothering about?
Click to expand...
Did you think RA came out of all this unscathed? Not digging you but seriously?
 
Fedayn said:
I would agree with that Joe, if I remember right AFA/RA were the first people they looked at, also if I remember right, they interviewed an AFA/RA fella-in shadows so as to make his face unrecognisable-which surprised me. It was a programme full of surprises for me.

I remember the aftermath and the stuff re RA/AFA which I found funny given where they were that day. Deffo a fit up job those them. Panther got serious grief after the May 8th demo outside the bookshop too. No coincidence given that demo was far more 'aggressive' than previous demos past there. It was also the only one to the bookshop that the fash didn't attack or feel confident enough to attack. (There were claims they had hundreds in the shop itself but nothing materialised). Plod also got a bit of a slapping that day aswell. I think that was part of the reason for the near military behaviour of the polis on the big demo in October. They had a few agenda's that day from plod.

I deffo agree an odd use of resources yeah, there was obviously pre-concieved headlines and scaremongering going on there. To a lesser extent it happened to YRE/Militant members, as I sad as a result of the May demo.

I honestly don't know who contacted them, I knew the bloke who was interviewed in the 'shadows', I was on-as I said-a college course as was another member of the Militant. We were both a bit surprised at what we saw/heard. I can't really remember what was said by the 'Away Team' fella, if I remember right the YRE 'spokesman'-who's a mate-was given the standard you're as bad as them routine re the violence.
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"Joe" you never shared this level of knowledge but always cunted us off for being mugs?
 
Ok, let me articulate myself better. "joe" gives this stuff a LOT of thought, consideration and shares fuck at the time but then cunts everyone off for not doing the right thing?
 
TopCat said:
Did you think RA came out of all this unscathed? Not digging you but seriously?
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If you what mean by 'unscathed' was directly infiltrated - hard to say. But if you mean negatively influenced as a result of said infiltration, there is certainly no evidence of it - either in terms of policy forming or operationally. Part of the reason may be, that contrary to rumour RA was stridently democratic. Built from the bottom up. It follows therefore that that is where you have to enlist. And work your way up. AFA post re-launch in 1989, adopted a similar set up. Individuals, branches, regions, national. Both bottom up and a genuine meritocracy. In other words to impact policy nationally it would be necessary to convince everybody - or at least a majority. IOf course no system's perfect, but it mitigated against someone being recruited and appointed top down to a middle management position and beavering away unnoticed from there.
 
I'm waiting for a quote from ITN to be able to have a personal copy of the WiA documentary 'Violence with Violence'. Don't know how expensive it will be yet.
 
laptop said:
Um, that'd not be for a copy, that'd be for a licence to re-broadcast the clip as part of a new telly program, no?
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ITN said:
Thank you for your enquiry

To supply the following clip on a DVD or as a download will cost £170 + VAT. Please note the DVD will have a burnt in time code on screen and the download will be low res
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Well if it's near £200 for a 1 min 7 sec clip how much is it for the WiA documentary! I've had to email a different department for that and it takes 14 days to get a reply.
 
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