Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Demu]

Donal Macintyre is a cock.

I'll tell him you said that.

 

[miktheword]

The delightful posturing of middle aged "hard men". LiamO, if you didn't exist someone would have to invent you. As for you, Past Caring, I'm unaware of ever reading a significant political contribution from you on any subject, so it's difficult for me to assess how "heavyweight" you are.

Now if you lads are quite done with the personal jibes, perhaps we can get on to the political content sandwiched between the "tasty crew" nonsense in the book?

Nigel, I have to agree with LiamO's subsequent comment to yours. In my experience many of the middle aged men you refer to (and that's being kind to their age) talk with respect to people on the net, even under the most trying circumstances; They certainly don't engage in 'keyboard warrior bollox' as you state. Some are gangsters in the student bar, some are students in the gangster bar, the internet though, allows some to just give abuse from the safety of the keyboard.
Surely its the contrary to your argument. I reminded of a quote once, 'the Left in Britain, if they didn't exist, the State would have to invent them.'
Someone wouldn't have invented the LiamO's who would? They were the abortion that survived the Left (no offence Liam).
How many at the height of Militant and SWP? a combined 15,000? If there were that many LiamO's and his band of middle aged men, the political situation in this country would have changed, I believe.

I don't see the book as you did. On the issue it tackles, in the title (which wasn't gangsters or drugs) it is remarkably non one dimensional. 'Beating the fascists' could have been just another football hoolie book with politics as an add on. But it is very short on the violence. 'Beating' I took before I read the book, to mean it would be more about how the fash could be beaten, on the tactic that they chose and forcing them onto the one they now pursue.
More to the point, every instance of action is filled with at least double the spread as to where that left us, the fash; setbacks and victories.

Hopefully this thread has moved on from the bitchiness of earlier, although still entertaining. (Don't ask Demu, the mickeys always have the best stuff).

For what its worth Nigel, I do remember you on a thread a year or two ago, asking some genuine, non-sectarian stuff about the IWCA and you seemed genuine in what lessons could be learnt from it.

 

[Citizen66]

Hence my request to disregard most if not all of what appeared on the MacIntyre documentary in respect of Dessie.

Fair dos.

 

[Blagsta]

Hence my request to disregard most if not all of what appeared on the MacIntyre documentary in respect of Dessie.

Fair enough

 

[Blagsta]

I'll tell him you said that.

Please do

 

[Demu]

Sources are from googling his name, some stuff on wikipedia, some on BBC site etc. I really don't have an agenda here, I am curious though. I have no problems with "violent dangerous" anti-fascists, but I do see a problem with allying with drug dealers - if it's true that he was involved.

Involved in what. Make your case.

Have you read the book? Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Demu]

Please do

Dont worry, rest assured he is a bigger cock than you

 

[Blagsta]

Involved in what. Make your case.

Have you read the book? Draw your own conclusions.

I'm not making a case. I'm asking some questions because I'm curious. I have read the book btw, as already stated.

 

[Demu]

Nigel, I have to agree with LiamO's subsequent comment to yours. In my experience many of the middle aged men you refer to (and that's being kind to their age) talk with respect to people on the net, even under the most trying circumstances; They certainly don't engage in 'keyboard warrior bollox' as you state. Some are gangsters in the student bar, some are students in the gangster bar, the internet though, allows some to just give abuse from the safety of the keyboard.
Surely its the contrary to your argument. I reminded of a quote once, 'the Left in Britain, if they didn't exist, the State would have to invent them.'
Someone wouldn't have invented the LiamO's who would? They were the abortion that survived the Left (no offence Liam).
How many at the height of Militant and SWP? a combined 15,000? If there were that many LiamO's and his band of middle aged men, the political situation in this country would have changed, I believe.

I don't see the book as you did. On the issue it tackles, in the title (which wasn't gangsters or drugs) it is remarkably non one dimensional. 'Beating the fascists' could have been just another football hoolie book with politics as an add on. But it is very short on the violence. 'Beating' I took before I read the book, to mean it would be more about how the fash could be beaten, on the tactic that they chose and forcing them onto the one they now pursue.
More to the point, every instance of action is filled with at least double the spread as to where that left us, the fash; setbacks and victories.

Hopefully this thread has moved on from the bitchiness of earlier, although still entertaining. (Don't ask Demu, the mickeys always have the best stuff).

For what its worth Nigel, I do remember you on a thread a year or two ago, asking some genuine, non-sectarian stuff about the IWCA and you seemed genuine in what lessons could be learnt from it.

You been drinking diesel?

 

[Citizen66]

LiamO, if you didn't exist someone would have to invent you.

This is classic Richard "you couldn't make it up" Littlejohn speak.

Nigel, don't let that mask slip too quickly.

The Left, in particular, raise the BNP bogeyman at every available opportunity, allowing themselves to flaunt their own 'goodness'. If the BNP didn't exist, Labour would have to invent them.

Source

 

[Citizen66]

I reminded of a quote once, 'the Left in Britain, if they didn't exist, the State would have to invent them.'

Perhaps not a Littlejohnism then.

Good to see Littlejohn's plagiarising his lines though all the same.

 

[miktheword]

You been drinking diesel?

no, wearing them. Just thought I'd better clarify though. Wasn't meaning the middle aged men were the students / gangster bar etc! re-reading my post gave me flashbacks to how my ramblings often got me into situations I had to talk my way out of.

 

[Demu]

no, wearing them. Just thought I'd better clarify though. Wasn't meaning the middle aged men were the students / gangster bar etc! re-reading my post gave me flashbacks to how my ramblings often got me into situations I had to talk my way out of.

That quote is rather familiar. Believe it was used to explain Hanns behaviour in Manchester many years ago. He behaved like a gangster in the student pub(salutation) and like a student in the gangster pub (gamecock).

So I am told

 

[audiotech]

Good grief, looks very much like a hairstyle commonly referred to as a 'Tony Curtis', or am I being unkind?

 

[audiotech]

he means people who buy books because they expect them to be interesting, not full of pretentious long winded intellectual twaddle and theory

Not many a self taught working class intellectuals about these days sadly and it seems even less known about this tradition?

 

[LiamO]

(no offence Liam).

None taken Mik. Your post was interesting and made some valid points.

As for clarity... we could all do with a little more of that in our writing... but reading your post, in the respectful way I believe it was written, it was not that difficult at all to get the points you were making.

 

[trevhagl]

well i managed to get the book before Xmas and despite struggling with a map reading magnifying glass, i'm hooked. The stuck up smug twats on here that criticise it are so far off the mark it's unreal. Apart from the first chapter which is like a Searchlight page filler analysis (which i guess is put there for people who haven't seen a book of this kind before), it's gripping stuff so far, great tale about breaking into the NFs industrial unit and well....so far so great. So if any twats come on here and whine about it being like a hooligan book just tell em to fuck off back to their dull theoretical academic textbooks and get a job as a headmaster or something

 

[miktheword]

That quote is rather familiar. Believe it was used to explain Hanns behaviour in Manchester many years ago. He behaved like a gangster in the student pub(salutation) and like a student in the gangster pub (gamecock).

So I am told

correct , and on second thoughts, I might as well have been drinking diesel.

 

[miktheword]

None taken Mik. Your post was interesting and made some valid points.

As for clarity... we could all do with a little more of that in our writing... but reading your post, in the respectful way I believe it was written, it was not that difficult at all to get the points you were making.

thanks Liam. ( the 'abortion that survived ' quote I think was in the pamphlet 'We Are Red Action' or The Blitz article more likely.)
So, definitely meant respectfully. I was meant to be praising your eloquently put comment about how some who are quick to give the verbals from their keyboard, would be far less likely to do so in real life. and that they had called your comment 'internet warrior bollox' was ironic.

I was going to blame my tangential digressing ramblings on The Scouse Git who logged on in my absence! Looking forward to the launch.

 

[kenny g]

It is a very good book, well worth reading and politically inspirational.

 

[LiamO]

"The abortion that survived" is an evocative little gem that M O'F was fond of using.

I think it was in that Blitz article. Mind you he was well pissed when he met them as a gang of us had been drinking all day with the late and sorely missed Liam Ó Loingsigh - much to the disgust of our sober colleagues attending and contributing to an all-day political meeting.

This 'scouse git'... is it TC? Is he coming?

 

[miktheword]

"The abortion that survived" is an evocative little gem that M O'F was fond of using.

I think it was in that Blitz article. Mind you he was well pissed when he met them as a gang of us had been drinking all day with the late and sorely missed Liam Ó Loingsigh - much to the disgust of our sober colleagues attending and contributing to an all-day political meeting.

This 'scouse git'... is it TC? Is he coming?

not him, another one. Alan T of Freedom Of Movement fame and many infamous events as well. I keep filling him in on amusing posts from this site, and quite often with the comment halfway through 'Demu, Liam O , they sound quite eloquent actually!'. He replies, yeah, Liam, always was, even Demu, despite their parochial northern rivalry. I guess this format gives me a chance to read the words of those I only had previously heard in reference to the day's events or the next strategy, often in a loud boozer.

 

[cantsin]

I was was never a member of Red Action and actually stayed with the SWP when they were expelled ( I joined in 1977 and stayed untill the mid 90s ) . Despite political differences I never experienced Red Action in the way Nigel describes them as being phyiscally threatening to those who disagreed with them politically .In fact quite the opposite . Nigel would have us believe that Red Action were somehow politically light . Not the case at all . In fact free from the prison of Totskyist formula they were actually politically challenging. I moved from NW London to Manchester in the late 80s and had exactly the same relationship with members of Red Action and AFA in Manchester. They argued their politics, I argued mine. where we could cooperate we did, where we disagreed we disagreed. I must say that wasn't my experience of with Militant but perhaps the ones I met went to the same political day schools as Nigel.

similar to my experience/perception of RA as an SWP member back then ( admittedly, I was drifting apart from the party from pretty early on ) _ havent read the whole thread, but sounds a lot like Irritating Nigel has never met anyone from RA / has reads books / not much else -

 

[LiamO]

But I bet he has read some really big books... ones with no pictures or anyfink... no doubt he learned how to address Oiks in one of them.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Old blokes reminiscing.

 

[LiamO]

During the War.....

 

[trevhagl]

I was not responding to 'criticism' (and most definitely not to any political 'criticism').

I was responding to your flouncy, Student Grant-style pissiness - and pointing out that if you adopted a similar 'debating style' to the people involved face to face you would get short shrift. In fact if you acted like that in any boozer I've ever drank in, you would not last pissing time.

But then you are possibly a much more pleasant individual in person and they would be content to just rip your 'argument' to pieces.

probably why he sits behind a computer all day. Safer

 

[trevhagl]

been reading more and its continually great, love the tale about the gang member who gets chinned and in the end 60 of the fuckers gather outside the Squadists house throwing petrol bombs, and all the fun and games and humour despite the adversity !!!

 

[love detective]

how you getting on with the type size?

 

[articul8]

I don't see the book as you did. On the issue it tackles, in the title (which wasn't gangsters or drugs) it is remarkably non one dimensional. 'Beating the fascists' could have been just another football hoolie book with politics as an add on. But it is very short on the violence. 'Beating' I took before I read the book, to mean it would be more about how the fash could be beaten, on the tactic that they chose and forcing them onto the one they now pursue.

I don't know about this - something like the anti-poll tax struggle gets only a passing mention. Don't know whether this just falls outside the remit of the book and what Red Action may or may not have done in terms of involvement in that - but seeing direct confrontation with the still relatively marginal forces of fascism as being the primary political objective does seem to be more than a little one-sided.