A bit confused Trev? You do know I was taking the piss out of Nigel, not you?
Btw his eventual answer to my question...
is every bit as illustrative of his pretentions and prejudices as I thought it would be when I asked him for clarification.
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
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A bit confused Trev? You do know I was taking the piss out of Nigel, not you?
Btw his eventual answer to my question...
is every bit as illustrative of his pretentions and prejudices as I thought it would be when I asked him for clarification.
I was not responding to 'criticism' (and most definitely not to any political 'criticism').
I was responding to your flouncy, Student Grant-style pissiness - and pointing out that if you adopted a similar 'debating style' to the people involved face to face you would get short shrift. In fact if you acted like that in any boozer I've ever drank in, you would not last pissing time.
But then you are possibly a much more pleasant individual in person and they would be content to just rip your 'argument' to pieces.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The delightful posturing of middle aged "hard men". LiamO, if you didn't exist someone would have to invent you. As for you, Past Caring, I'm unaware of ever reading a significant political contribution from you on any subject, so it's difficult for me to assess how "heavyweight" you are.
Now if you lads are quite done with the personal jibes, perhaps we can get on to the political content sandwiched between the "tasty crew" nonsense in the book?
Now if you lads are quite done with the personal jibes, perhaps we can get on to the political content sandwiched between the "tasty crew" nonsense in the book?
past caring
The Cathars were right
More stalling.
I have never claimed to be a "hard man". Not once. Not on the Internet. Not in real life. I do however talk to people on the Internet exactly how I talk to them in person - ie always with an appropriate amount of reciprocal respect.
I struggle to comprehend why a little everyday canteen or high stool talk has your prissy knickers in such a twist.
Why not answer the point which has now been alluded to by three or four people... just how many hoolie-lit books have you actually read?
I struggle to comprehend why a little everyday canteen or high stool talk has your prissy knickers in such a twist.
Why not answer the point which has now been alluded to by three or four people... just how many hoolie-lit books have you actually read?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Entertaining coming from a supporter of an organisation which took about 40 posts of arsey bluster to get around to answering some simple questions about its current prospects, why it has declined and what its future strategy is with "we don't know".
Nigel,
I think the book attempts to say what happened, who was involved and where they came from. It has been described as history from below, which I think is a fair comment. You can draw your own conclusions from the book, which you are entitled to do so after buying it.
For the record, Dessie Noonan was a friend of mine for many years and he was actively involved against the far right to my knowledge from around 81/82 until certainly 2002. He is a part of working class anti fascist history in Manchester which is why he is in the book.
I think you should finish reading the book before commenting further, then you can give us the full benefit of your take on it.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I have no objection to him being in the book at all. He was there, he was part of it, he belongs in the book.
I object to the lack of political comment about the social role of "old school" gangsters (not just Noonan) who are otherwise presented in an overwhelmingly positive light.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
He had a certain reputation though. Was there no basis to it? Did he change his ways through politics? Sounds like there's an interesting story there.
Of course he had a reputation, and clearly it was not without foundation. However knowing the man as I did, I have yet to read anything on the internet that captures the measure or the intensity of the man.
Why would he change his ways through politics. He had standards, always did have. Dessie's notoriety was based on his alleged involvement with a series of daring armed robberies throughout the 80's. His involvement in anti fascism well known and highly productive during the same period.
I would certainly disregard most if not all of what appeared on the MacIntyre documentary in respect of Dessie.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
The book is a previously unwritten anti-fascist history, warts and all. This is what actually happened. Accordingly there can be no cliches. Earlier you described it as "bizarre" that "old-school villians" are involved in the book at all. Actually there is only one (or mayBe two) that I remember being described in that way. In any event why is that so extraordinary to you?
Have you fallen for the BBC/establishment propaganda that all anti-fascists look like Harry Potter and have done so since the '30's, or is that you and all your comrades carry a vague resemblance to him. and therefore regard the involvement of social strata other than the nerdy circles you move in as shocking?
Your lot do 'revolutionary politics' while the rougher end of the market should confine themselves to football hooliganism, bank robbery, beer glass brawling or possibly drug dealing. Is that it? If this is the case, then at best, as well as being a bit of snob, you are remarkably naive. The rougher end of the market has always been involved in radical politics. The core of the 43 Group was made up of 300 ex- commandos. The CP in the 30's was as least as well organised and aggressive as the BUF: 'we knew where to put the razors in the potatoes'. It is only the liberal left who like to pretend that it only the fascists who are low born and violent.
Unlike many on the Left who are too sensitised to violence AFA comes from that tradition. And make no apology for it. You clearly find that objectionable. Vulgar even. Yet you still call yourself a revolutionary?
It all reminds of a story told by Robert Duvall about Vanessa Redgrave. He asked her if she really believed in the violent overthrow of the state. 'Yes' she replied. 'You mean you are prepared to kill people?' he asks. 'Oh no!' she replies clearly horrified. 'Other people would do that'! Duvall laughed and walked away.
Who said bank robbery?
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Do you think he was involved with drug dealing?
No , but I am.....what you after?
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I'm not "after" anything. I was asking a question. I've seen allegations on the net that he was involved. I wondered what you thought of them.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. "Armed robbery" makes me think of harassed cashiers or Securicor/Group 4 workers though.
I understand where you are going with this. There is nothing I can tell you. Try asking about the murders.
I think occupational hazard for Securicor/Group 4.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I'm interested in how someone with his reputation gets involved in left wing politics. I know very little about him, except what I've read online. What I read alleges he was into supplying drugs and guns. I'm wondering how true these allegations are.
Well, erm, yeah. But a pro w/c robbing type can't argue that point. They're left with zero principles if they do.
What reputation? He was an anti fascist. A violent dangerous one at that, but then again so were the rest of us, so we could hardly condemn him for that could we?
Be interested to know what your source for these allegations are. Weblink ?
Make your own mind up. As I said....allegedly. So don't be building your case on what I said his reputation was allegedly based on.
I never applied my statement to anyone in particular. Well actually I did: generically to everyone. I don't know anything of your mate though bar what's being accused here. I never did rate Mackintyre though - it was a poor man's Cook Report.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Sources are from googling his name, some stuff on wikipedia, some on BBC site etc. I really don't have an agenda here, I am curious though. I have no problems with "violent dangerous" anti-fascists, but I do see a problem with allying with drug dealers - if it's true that he was involved.
To be fair, can only comment on MacIntyre as I have never met the well rounded Cook.
Well unlucky if you got to meet the loaded agenda that is Donal MacIntyre.
I think I only watched the Brixton episode of his which I found particularly disgusting.
"Black people steal, yeah? Watch as I walk around endlessly in a black neighbourhood and eventually stalk a black man home until it happens"
Gripping.
Well unlucky if you got to meet the loaded agenda that is Donal MacIntyre.
I think I only watched the Brixton episode of his which I found particularly disgusting.
"Black people steal, yeah? Watch as I walk around endlessly and eventually stalk a black man home until it happens"
Gripping.
Hence my request to disregard most if not all of what appeared on the MacIntyre documentary in respect of Dessie.
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