are you trying to say that Annalise Dodds' Better Together policy review isn't teeming with fresh ideas from the title onwards?
Batley and Spen by-election
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Politics is about weighing, balancing, and choosing different risks.
I can see why some might take the view that a heavy defeat for Starmer that causes his quick departure might at least allow for the possibility of something better/more effective. Personally I'm not convinced, but I do accept that my track record means that my position as Urbans' most accomplished political observer, theoretician, pundit and forecaster might be open to challenge...
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
He can't bounce back from this, so it would make more sense to dump him now when we are three years away from the next General Election.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
after three by election losses in a row people on the PLP with majorities of a few thousand will start feeling twitchy, regardless of what wider opinion on starmers suitability as leader is. On my own opinion I think that even if starmer had lived up to the qualities people wanted to project onto him it would be too late to stop the wider rot
I read some analysis a bit ago that seemed to show that any Labour opposition leader with longer than a couple of years in the saddle is basically doomed to lose the next election as that's how long it takes for the press to destroy them with the public. best leaving it another year in that case.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I'm surprised I haven't seen more 'leadbeater' puns yet.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I think this is wrong, I think he can bounce back, or at least Johnson can nose dive.
Johnson has three years of difficult government ahead of him, and he's got different wings of both the party, and the Tory electorate, pulling him in different directions.
I am absolutely not saying that I think Starmer will win in 2024 with 400 seats, I think he'll probably cruise to a lesser defeat than in 2019, with the LD's making gains in the Tory south, and the Tories losing some of their northern gains simply because of indifference amongst the brexity/historically-Labour electorate.
I accept that a change in leadership 3 years before a GE raises the possibility of a better result, but I don't accept that it's a probability, and I think it carries a far greater risk of danger than it carries a chance of success.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Thing is when Johnson nose dives, they'll just replace him with a shiny "fresh start" Tory who'll benefit from new leader bounce and win the GE.
At least that'll be the plan.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Like how Starmer's pals sabotaged Labour to get rid of a leader they hated, only backwards.
I was joking anyway. I don't think a rout in Batley and Spen will end Starmer and I would never vote tory. Or, for that matter, live in Yorkshire.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Maybe the discussion should have been.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
I'm sure that's the plan, I'm just not convinced it's Johnsons plan, or is going to stand up to the constituency parties, which were subject to significant 'kipper infiltration, and aren't reticent about twisting the arms of their MP's to be Johnson fan-boys.
The Men in Grey Suits have been replaced by Men in Kipper Socks....
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
This is often overlooked in the noise around Starmer.
I previously had relatively high hopes for Rayner (on a limited social democratic basis plus her lived experience) but her intervention today on the experience of white working class boys in the education system is revealing of a general confusion and political degeneration. Burnham's professional northerner routine seems to have rehabilitated him but conveniently overlooks his career in Parliament and as a new Labour minister. And who can forget his flaccid leadership campaign when Corbyn won? Lewis wants an alliance with Sir Ed Davey. I am assuming we can all agree that if Nandy is the answer the question is wrong. McDonnell is semi-retired. Am I missing anyone?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Rachel Reeves
(Probably still a little too early for her to run but I suspect that if Starmer we to stand down in the years time she'd be in contention)
(Probably still a little too early for her to run but I suspect that if Starmer we to stand down in the years time she'd be in contention)
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Change we can believe in
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Zarah Sultana? Ian Lavery?
It's definitely slim pickings. I don't see anyone looking like they have the capability to lead the Labour Party nevermind win a GE regardless of platform.
But, in fairness, I'd equally struggle to think of anyone outside the PLP capable of fronting any sort of Left-ish challenge to the Govt.
Marcus Rashford has done better than any politician.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Bolded bit : there are literally no circumstances in existence anywhere ever, that would make me even begin to consider voting Tory!!
Not even if they gave you a vote on what type of aggregate to use for a local bypass?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Agreed, and even if there was the more profound question: what is Labour for and what is the necessary narrative required to re-connect isn't being seriously engaged with and is strikingly absent in most of the debate/writing that I am reading....
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
If it was a choice between a well-graded type 2 recycled aggregate or suitably shredded members of the Conservative party, the latter would get my vote every time, even if the final formation was a bit undulating due to decomposition.A subject of zero interest to me, so please have a(
)
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...and indeed who and/or what needs reconnection and who/what needs connecting with that haven't been before and how to face any tensions between the two.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Who are "They"?
The Tories are as fucking useless as Labour when it comes to picking a leader and then uniting behind them. There is no plan. There is no eminence grise pulling the strings.When Johnson goes there will be a shit-fight and there'll be no uniting behind the leader once it's over. Just think for a minute about all those who will be jostling for power.
I've never understood this bizarre conspiracy theory about the Tories.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
It's not because of their Machiavellian maneuverings. Remember, less than 2 years ago they booted out May and then went for each other with gusto, repeating the process they'd gone through three years previously with Cameron.
If their position is strong, which the result in Amersham seems to out into question, it is because they are the incumbents in the middle of a national health crisis and because as this thread shows Labour is also led by duplicitous cunts.
What evidence do you have that the Tories are not a bunch of shit-gibbons unable to mask just how much they loathe each other?
andysays
Love and solidarity
No would be my answer too.
And unless my reference to the generally rightish PLP wasn't clear, what I meant was that even if a leftish leader who was prepared to argue for decent policies did miraculously emerge, they would struggle to get that position heard without being undermined by many of their MPs.
