Batley and Spen by-election

[ska invita]

If Georrge Galloway is the one to york Starmer after he's been bruised and battered by a torrid spell of short pitched bowling from the most corrupt and deceitful British government most can remember, I'm fine with it, even if Galloway is a loathsome, unprincipled shit.

Pretty obvious it's time he was trudging back to the pavillion if the Labour Party is to survive in meaningful / recognisable form, let alone challenge to be a government again. Totally clueless and out of his depth.

there needs to be a party to the left of labour that hurts labour in elections, so might as well be this crazy ego-vehicle

 

[killer b]

George will go for any vote he can get the man has the principals of a Great White, but at the end of the day he is only going to get a ragtag of discontented voters who don't want to vote for Labour but can't bring themselves to vote for the Tories or the LibDem. It's a reflection of how sad a state that Labour is in that the votes of a few malcontents that could once be ignored are being fought over.

who are the few malcontents you're thinking of here? The 6000 who voted for the populist right independent candidate in 2019, or the sizeable muslim minority in B&S? I'm not sure it's sensible to ignore either tbh

 

[chilango]

there needs to be a party to the left of labour that hurts labour in elections, so might as well be this crazy ego-vehicle

Not convinced Galloway (and whatever bunch of fools he's roped in this time*) are left of anything tbh.

*his "Party" (WPB), not those voting for him.

 

[ska invita]

Not convinced Galloway (and whatever bunch of fools he's roped in this time*) are left of anything tbh.

*his "Party" (WPB), not those voting for him.

true

 

[MickiQ]

who are the few malcontents you're thinking of here? The 6000 who voted for the populist right independent candidate in 2019, or the sizeable muslim minority in B&S? I'm not sure it's sensible to ignore either tbh

The people who vote for George, the man is a protest candidate (despite what he thinks) I suspect that Starmer' biggest problem is not going to be people who switch their votes from Labour to the Tories but those who just decide to simply not bother at all.

 

[killer b]

Labour can lose this, badly, without a single person changing their vote from Labour to Tory if - as seems likely - those 6000 protest votes from last time shift en masse to the tories.

FWIW I've changed my view on how Galloway is likely to do - I think he's likely to do some decent numbers.

 

[brogdale]

Labour can lose this, badly, without a single person changing their vote from Labour to Tory if - as seems likely - those 6000 protest votes from last time shift en masse to the tories.

FWIW I've changed my view on how Galloway is likely to do - I think he's likely to do some decent numbers.

Not to mention the stay at home/can't be arsed (former) Labour voters.

 

[killer b]

Not to mention the stay at home/can't be arsed (former) Labour voters.

I don't think they, or Galloway's vote however big it is, really make any material difference - except to how badly Labour are going to lose

 

[brogdale]

I don't think they, or Galloway's vote however big it is, really make any material difference - except to how badly Labour are going to lose

Yep, that's what I was getting at.

 

[rekil]

Point of information. Great whites are shit hot apex predators. Galloway is a bottom feeder.

 

[tim]

‘the pro Palestine vote ‘

Galloway won Bradford with cross-community support. He then did nothing once elected. There is nothing wrong with most of what he will say. He certainly won't be repeating the Volkische Celt stuff he came out with in Scotland a month or so ago The problem is that he doesn't mean it.

 

[The39thStep]

Galloway won Bradford with cross-community support. He then did nothing once elected. There is nothing wrong with most of what he will say. He certainly won't be repeating the Volkische Celt stuff he came out with in Scotland a month or so ago The problem is that he doesn't mean it.

Oh yes the Arab Spring

 

[brogdale]

The tragedy being that this appalling woman is almost certainly right about this.

 

[tim]

I don't think they, or Galloway's vote however big it is, really make any material difference - except to how badly Labour are going to lose

I hope he doesn't, however, he's done it before
Galloway returns to Parliament in sensational win in Bradford West - Labour/Coalition smashed

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/in-bethnal-green-and-bow-i-would-vote-for.41544/

Post in thread 'In Bethnal Green and Bow I would vote for:' https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/in-bethnal-green-and-bow-i-would-vote-for.41544/post-1454164

 

[killer b]

I am aware of George Galloway's political career.

 

[JTG]

If Georrge Galloway is the one to york Starmer after he's been bruised and battered by a torrid spell of short pitched bowling from the most corrupt and deceitful British government most can remember, I'm fine with it, even if Galloway is a loathsome, unprincipled shit.

Pretty obvious it's time he was trudging back to the pavillion if the Labour Party is to survive in meaningful / recognisable form, let alone challenge to be a government again. Totally clueless and out of his depth.

Thing is, it's not just Starmer. The entire party bureaucracy, 90% of the PLP and most of its councillors are also determined to keep treading the path to oblivion. Every suspension, CLP coup, dodgy/fixed AGM further ensures they will get there. Purging the party in order to set up a vacuum in its place

 

[Guineveretoo]

Owen Jones has made a video about Batley and Spen and George.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Thing is, it's not just Starmer. The entire party bureaucracy, 90% of the PLP and most of its councillors are also determined to keep treading the path to oblivion. Every suspension, CLP coup, dodgy/fixed AGM further ensures they will get there. Purging the party in order to set up a vacuum in its place

Not sure any of those reasons explain what’s happening everywhere outside of university towns to Labour’s vote. They are symptoms of a wider decomposition that’s been eating away Labour for 40 odd years. What’s remarkable is the speed of the collapse under Starmer

 

[ska invita]

. What’s remarkable is the speed of the collapse under Starmer

It's almost cheering

 

[JTG]

Framing the by-election as an opportunity to claim the head of the LOTO probably makes it more likely to be a Tory gain imo

Certainly won't inspire anyone to save SKS at all costs

 

[SpookyFrank]

Framing the by-election as an opportunity to claim the head of the LOTO probably makes it more likely to be a Tory gain imo

I'd consider voting Tory on that basis tbh. On the grounds that a Starmer-led opposition is far more help to the tories than one extra seat.

 

[hitmouse]

I'd consider voting Tory on that basis tbh. On the grounds that a Starmer-led opposition is far more help to the tories than one extra seat.

Wait till you see who they replace him with, though.

 

[William of Walworth]

I'd consider voting Tory on that basis tbh. On the grounds that a Starmer-led opposition is far more help to the tories than one extra seat.

Bolded bit : there are literally no circumstances in existence anywhere ever, that would make me even begin to consider voting Tory!!

 

[Raheem]

I wouldn't ever vote Tory, but I don't think I'd be very disappointed by a Tory win in this particular by election.

 

[tim]

I wouldn't ever vote Tory, but I don't think I'd be very disappointed by a Tory win in this particular by election.

Any Tory win diminishes me.

 

[Raheem]

Even if it doesn't convince them to dump Starmer, they deserve what they get. I don't see how it can be argued otherwise. I can be depressed by the whole scenario, but not honestly disappointed by the result.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I really don't think Labour should be "dumping" Starmer. He is the elected leader of the party, and the party needs to get behind him. They should be flooding Batley and Spen to ensure that Kim Leadbeater wins.

And that is not because I am a huge fan of Starmer (although I did vote for him) but because we need an effective Opposition, which is not just about one man, and which will not be achieved if the Party keeps changing its leader.

 

[kebabking]

I really don't think Labour should be "dumping" Starmer. He is the elected leader of the party, and the party needs to get behind him. They should be flooding Batley and Spen to ensure that Kim Leadbeater wins.

And that is not because I am a huge fan of Starmer (although I did vote for him) but because we need an effective Opposition, which is not just about one man, and which will not be achieved if the Party keeps changing its leader.

I think this is true - Starmer has been a damp squib, Labour isn't exactly innovative policy heavy, and the front bench would be hard pushed to get into the 2nd XI (reserves) - but Labours position is not going to be improved by chopping and changing leaders ever two years.

Johnson's popularity, and Starmers unpopularity, are only inexplicable if you only look to the UK. Crap governments are inexplicably popular across the world, Covid has provided an 'incumbents haven', and whether it last for another 6 months, or two years, or 5 years, I think it just has to be weathered, because I don't see much apart from time, and self-inflicted events changing it.

I think Starmer ought to tack left on some of the economic stuff, but I don't see that having any immediate/medium term effect, but it would be a sensible policy of getting the public used to hearing this stuff long before the next GE.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think this is true - Starmer has been a damp squib, Labour isn't exactly innovative policy heavy, and the front bench would be hard pushed to get into the 2nd XI (reserves) - but Labours position is not going to be improved by chopping and changing leaders ever two years.

Johnson's popularity, and Starmers unpopularity, are only inexplicable if you only look to the UK. Crap governments are inexplicably popular across the world, Covid has provided an 'incumbents haven', and whether it last for another 6 months, or two years, or 5 years, I think it just has to be weathered, because I don't see much apart from time, and self-inflicted events changing it.

I think Starmer ought to tack left on some of the economic stuff, but I don't see that having any immediate/medium term effect, but it would be a sensible policy of getting the public used to hearing this stuff long before the next GE.

This is important. A few years ago Labour seemed teeming with ideas (of varying degrees of merit), new groups popped up committed to 'ideas' and seemed ready to, at least accept the need for, a fundamental re-think about theory and method. Fast forward to 2021 and there is nobody on the frontbench who even attempting to grasp the nettle of thinking about the post Covid challenge or advancing policy ideas. Whether that's a lack of intellectual talent or the dead hand of the leader or both is hard to say.

 

[glitch hiker]

I'd consider voting Tory on that basis tbh. On the grounds that a Starmer-led opposition is far more help to the tories than one extra seat.

So it's worth it because in the long run it helps build a better opposition?

just trying to understand