Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[editor]

Shearing sheep is quite a skilled task but skilled shearers don't injure the sheep at all.

That's wonderful to know.

I've realised that it's impossible trying to hold a sensible discussion with the rabid pro-meat gang. They're in a permanent state of denial and are really only interested in misrepresenting what's been said or just sneering the choices of others. It's like dealing with a Jehovah's Witness with his foot stuck in the door. So I'm out for a while.

Here's some parting links you can all discount and deny:

Chickens at farms supplying Tesco and Ocado made to die of thirst or had necks crushed

Exclusive: Undercover footage also reveals birds deemed unprofitable at Red Tractor-backed business killed painfully by the neck

www.independent.co.uk

Welfare issues of chickens raised for meat in the UK

Every year, over one billion chickens are slaughtered for meat in the UK. More than 90% of these chickens are bred to grow too quickly and are reared in bare, dark and overcrowded conditions.

www.rspcaassured.org.uk

7 reasons why meat is bad for the environment - Greenpeace UK

The meat industry leaves a trail of destruction all over the world.

www.greenpeace.org.uk

Interactive: What is the climate impact of eating meat and dairy?

Food production accounts for one-quarter of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. It takes up half of the planet’s habitable surface.

interactive.carbonbrief.org

Eat less meat: UN climate-change report calls for change to human diet

The report on global land use and agriculture comes amid accelerating deforestation in the Amazon.

www.nature.com

How much would giving up meat help the environment?

Going vegan for two-thirds of meals could cut food-related carbon emissions by 60%

www.economist.com

 

[platinumsage]

This is the reality of UK arable farming, this is how vegan muesli is produced:

 

[weltweit]

That's wonderful to know.

I only commented on the sheep. I worked on Australian farms during shearing and witnessed many thousands of sheep being shorn. For that industry wool is the primary product, shearers are very experienced and skilled and it is absolutely nothing like "being skinned".

 

[editor]

This is the reality of UK arable farming, this is how vegan muesli is produced:

View attachment 280291

Ah would that be the muesli that only vegans eat, yes? Does it say that in the article somewhere?

Or do you mean the muesli that is mainly eaten by meat eaters, but you thought you'd twist it around to score a really cheap (and nonsensical) anti-vegan point?

Gotcha. Great work. Be proud. This thread really has some prime doofuses contributing.

 

[platinumsage]

Ah would that be the muesli that only vegans eat, yes? Does it say that in the article somewhere?

Or do you mean the muesli that is mainly eaten by meat eaters, but you thought you'd twist it around to score a really cheap (and nonsensical) anti-vegan point?

Gotcha. Great work. Be proud. This thread really has some prime doofuses contributing.

Of course I didn't claim that only vegans eat arable crops. But the idea that those who avoid anaimal products are avoiding this sort of thing is misguided.

Perhaps an appreciation that all food involves animal death and it's simply a matter of degrees would help, rather than all this nonsense about Carnists vs The Righteous

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You really are quite deceitful and dishonest. Here's what I actually said.

You can't 'stay small' as a computer manufacturer. When computer manufacturing was itself a small industry, then you could be small. But once it had scaled up, there was no place for small companies - they either went under or were bought out. That was the point of my comparison to the car industry, which went through a similar trajectory a century ago. Meanwhile, Google has pretty much created a monopoly for itself in its particular niche - more than a 90% share. Again, the space for small alternatives just isn't there any more.

The idea that somehow start-up companies in a new high-tech industry can choose to stay small and survive long-term is really wrongheaded. Any residual small companies will be doing something exceedingly niche and probably just for rich people, which again is the only space available for 'small' car manufacturers nowadays.

 

[Saul Goodman]

And there you go again with another sweeping statement designed to belittle people with a different dietary choice to you.

I said "for some" How is that a sweeping statement? And then you go on to say meat eaters are misrepresenting what's being said...

 

[editor]

You can't 'stay small' as a computer manufacturer.

This thread just gets more ridiculous. . There are literally hundreds if not thousands of small/boutique computer manufacturers who can source the parts like anyone else and create their own bespoke machines.

There really is no end to the excuses and wild whataboutery being spouted by the pro-meat gang here so I really am out of it now for a while.

 

[CNT36]

This thread just gets more ridiculous. . There are literally hundreds if not thousands of small/boutique computer manufacturers who can source the parts like anyone else and create their own bespoke machines.

Sounds pretty niche.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This thread just gets more ridiculous. . There are literally hundreds if not thousands of small/boutique computer manufacturers who can source the parts like anyone else and create their own bespoke machines.

There really is no end to the excuses and wild whataboutery being spouted by the pro-meat gang here so I really am out of it now for a while.

Did you read to the end of my post? 'doing something exceedingly niche and probably only for rich people'.

You haven't contradicted the central point here that, as it scales up (if it scales up - there are no guarantees it ever will), the cellular agriculture industry will inevitably be dominated by a few huge corporations, and the vast majority of the synthetic meat available will be made by them. That's the point you're trying to counter, and failing miserably to counter.

You're not covering yourself in glory here. You think people are attacking you when they're not, and you've been saying some frankly ludicrous things.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Ah would that be the muesli that only vegans eat, yes? Does it say that in the article somewhere?

Or do you mean the muesli that is mainly eaten by meat eaters, but you thought you'd twist it around to score a really cheap (and nonsensical) anti-vegan point?

You keep using this argument but it's flawed. Meat eaters generally aren't that bothered that animals die to feed them. It's pretty much an inevitability.

This thread really has some prime doofuses contributing.

I won't argue with you there.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's one patented and trademarked process.

And the production of food similar to quorn? Why not try reading the posts a couple of times so you see what people say instead of skimming them as you seem to be doing on this thread

 

[WouldBe]

And meat isn't already full of awful shit?

Steroid Hormone Implants Used for Growth in Food-Producing Animals

FDA has approved a number of steroid hormone drugs for use in beef cattle and sheep.

www.fda.gov

5 Dangerous Substances Big Ag Pumps Into Your Meat - EcoWatch

It is no secret that in the war against meat pathogens in commercial U.S. meat production, the pathogens are winning. The logical result of the tons of antibiotics Big Meat gives livestock (not because they are sick, but to fatten them up) is clear: antibiotics that no longer work against...

www.ecowatch.com

Sex Hormones in Meat and Dairy Products

The presence of hormones in milk and dairy foods has been discussed for decades. In recent years, consumers have become increasingly proactive in investigating the relationship between diet and health, and awareness of issues concerning food production has increased significantly. In the Western...

www.news-medical.net

Again USA shit not relevant to the UK.

 

[Cid]

This thread just gets more ridiculous. . There are literally hundreds if not thousands of small/boutique computer manufacturers who can source the parts like anyone else and create their own bespoke machines.

There really is no end to the excuses and wild whataboutery being spouted by the pro-meat gang here so I really am out of it now for a while.

None of them are making components, even for cases etc most will use off the shelf parts.

 

[Funky_monks]

I see this thread went full "Dunning-Kruger" then.

 

[campanula]

FFS, there is such absolutist shite on this thread, it is barely worth engaging with. A huge subject - the ethics and politics of food, reduced to the most simplistic binary either/or arguments. Usually spouted by people with not a single fucking clue about the actual processes/methods involved,

I wouldn't normally bother with this thread myself but the little minispat about sheep and wool production caught my eye so, as an example of nuance and ambiguity, wool production does not involve 'skinning alive' but this does not mean that all wool production is equally ethical (or not). Breeding sheep for fleece, such as merino, in a climate which is not suited for these ruminants, does indeed result in some horrible practices such as mulesing. The issue isn't simple animal cruelty, but the considerations of capitalism, profit and labour. Theie is a nice circular loop where sheep produce fleeces suitable for spinning, in cold climates such as Scandinavia, The Falklands,, Peruvian highlands etc...while cotton and silk require a milder climate...making the textiles we need, according to location...but all those links between climate, agriculture, humans and animals co-dependencies have become strained, broken and debased through the imperatives of capital. This is the great world crime...not the choice whether to use plastics, processed food, or some bucolic invented past. The whole argument rests entirely on the debased practice of over consumption for profit. Nylon wearing vegans, eating non seasonal, non-local, enhanced, artificial processed products do not hold the moral high ground, any more than mince eating, MacDonald's devotees....but hey, lets keep those meaningless personal smears going while the larger questions remain.

 

[LDC]

<Pops in to have a look at the thread as thinking of adding something.>



<Steps quietly away.>

 

[Saul Goodman]

I see this thread went full "Dunning-Kruger" then.

In fairness, it started that way.

 

[WouldBe]

Again, you have absolutely no fucking idea how this industry will pan out, so you just trot out made up nonsense as facts , based on anything you can think of that will damn the non-meat industry.

Argentinian cultured meat supplier on its 'all-in-one' cell line: 'We offer cells that can grow fast and reduce costs'

Cell Farm Food Tech is developing stem cell lines to provide cultured meat companies with a high-quality starter material from “champion” Argentine Hereford and Angus beef.

www.foodnavigator-latam.com

Not the same thing as producing synthetic meat. A nurse can collect stem cells from an umbilical cord but that's vastly different to treating the cells to get them to produce eg bone marrow cells which can then grow inside the patient.

As some of the vegans complain about consent how do those cows consent to having a biopsy?

Biopsy hurt so the cows are being 'tortured'.

It has no benefit for the cows whatsoever.

 

[platinumsage]

Isn't synthetic meat the same as wanting to use gene therapy to stop children being born with Down's, because it's assumed they won't enjoy their lives and will have a horrible time?

 

[Spymaster]

Isn't synthetic meat the same as wanting to use gene therapy to stop children being born with Down's, because it's assumed they won't enjoy their lives and will have a horrible time?

Whaaaaaaaat?

Step away from the keyboard.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Isn't synthetic meat the same as wanting to use gene therapy to stop children being born with Down's, because it's assumed they won't enjoy their lives and will have a horrible time?

That's a bit of a stretch, tbf.

 

[NoXion]

Isn't synthetic meat the same as wanting to use gene therapy to stop children being born with Down's, because it's assumed they won't enjoy their lives and will have a horrible time?

That's a fucking stupid analogy, and Down's isn't genetic anyway. It's a chromosomal abnormality that occurs during development. Here's another analogy for you; using gene therapy to prevent Down's is like changing a cake recipe to prevent overcooking.

 

[ddraig]

Isn't synthetic meat the same as wanting to use gene therapy to stop children being born with Down's, because it's assumed they won't enjoy their lives and will have a horrible time?

You are fucking sad as fuck and sick in the head, get a fucking grip

 

[Spymaster]

That's a bit of a stretch, tbf.

It’s one of the most cunt-headed posts I’ve ever seen on here.

Tbf.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

platinumsage is trying to get a rise. He got a bit of a rise out of me earlier about what to do with all the farm animals. But I'm not his target.

 

[Spymaster]

Aye. The carnists had the veganists on the run up til then

PS has fucked this particular skirmish

 

[Saul Goodman]

It’s one of the most cunt-headed posts I’ve ever seen on here.

Tbf.

I spent years looking after my uncle who had Down's syndrome, so it's a bit close to the bone for me. I mean I don't pull many punches but I'd draw the line at that.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Aye. The carnists had the veganists on the run up til then

PS has fucked this particular skirmish

Oh I don't know. One faux pas could hardly undo the absolute annihilation the veganists have suffered here, but it certainly didn't help the cause.

 

[bimble]

Thread is too stupid, you all have trench foot. But the title has got to be wrong surely not having offspring is the biggest way you can help save the planet.

I bet vegans procreate less than carnitas though on average so maybe it’s fine.