butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He hath spoken.dylans said:
Assange to face extradition
- Thread starter teqniq
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
From the past when the claims first surfaced and from the asange site -nothing up to date, factual or relevant. Pretty shabby.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Well, we'll wait for that verdict.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Some of us will. Dylans hath spoken though.
temper_tantrum
The beauty of the ride
I'm impressed by your psychic ability to tell what happened behind a closed door between two people. You should turn that talent of yours towards judging British rape cases, clearly you're well qualified for it.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Not if it is consenting which she admits she did. She stayed with him for a week after the incident and engaged in multiple instances of consensual sex at the time and after. At no point did she say NO. Even after finding there was no condom she consents at that time "because she couldn't be bothered to argue" and on numerous occasions after. The women involved were perfectly capable of saying no but didn't. The case of sex while asleep is a case in point. She wakes up and finds a man, her lover having sex with her. Is this rape? Yes if she immediately objects and says no, then it is rape. If however she does not object but on the contrary wakes up and engages in mutual sex with him then clearly it is not. She did the latter not the former. Now you could argue that it is never acceptable but it seems to me that to do this is to ignore the varied nature of relationships and the types of mutual trust and consent that are tied into relationships. Maybe one partner initiating sex while the other is asleep is an established and mutually enjoyable part of a relationship. Is it therefore rape as soon as one partner says so? Whatever, it seems absurd to me to try to bring legislation into this type of intimate mutually consentual behaviour. The key here is that consent was given before, during and after that particular incident. If the woman objected to his behaviour she was perfectly capable of saying no and withdrawing consent. She didn't.
This is the problem with the Swedish judicial system and the kind of social democratic attempt to legislate in areas such as these.. It doesn't treat women like intelligent moral adults who are capable of giving or withdrawing consent. It infantilises both couples in relationships and attempts to impose judicial solutions to what are non criminal human situations and to the extent that it does so using the language of feminism and empowerment it is "pseudo feminism" yes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Wow.You're fucked. You're not even saying that it didn't happen, but that it's ok. You total creep.
I'd like to see this consensus after. You have evidence of this? We have evidence of the woman saying that she did not consent at all. But just the bit for after will do for now.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
No you are the creep. A fucking dishonest one at that. You know damn well that in arguments such as this it is easy to smear your opponents rather than engaging in a discussion of the issue and you choose the former, because its easy, because it plays to the crowd, because screaming "apologist for rape" is easier than engaging with the argument. That makes you a cowardly wanker of the first order.You know exactly what you are doing as well as I do, coward.
But hey you are improving. At least I could read a sentence that you wrote.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They go to some lengths these CIA types, even controlling the actions of assange.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You weren't apologising for rape before. Now you are. Easy to read.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
fuck you you dishonest coward. No rape occurred.
Rape is being used in the Assange extradition in the same way that womens rights were used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan. It is a convenient excuse to pursue a ulterior agenda. It is an insult to the real victims of rape and it is a fucking disgrace that you are cheering it on.
elbows
Well-Known Member
My problem with dylans, as became clear during events in Libya, is that he seems to find it necessary to take hysterical positions on matters deemed to be in the territory of 'epic struggle between the US empire and people who wish to be free'. All the devilish detail, which often makes up the important substance of the matter, is lost in a great wave of rhetoric and black & white thinking.
Its kind of similar to the way that so much important detail was lost to the cold war, always trumped by the main struggle, truth always overridden by the central narrative.
In the case of Libya this meant that once nato got involved, all fears must be hyped, and all hopeful possibilities denied. In the case of Assange it means downplaying the possibility that the man actually committed an offence. Well bollocks, if detail and truth must be sacrificed in order to wage the struggle effectively then I consider the struggle to be corrupted and likely to produce its own horrors if it ever got anywhere. Theres no need for it, the crimes of empire are great enough already, there is no need to hype them up in absurd ways.
Personally I do think that the US government tends to like to make an example of people in order to act as a powerful deterrent for anyone contemplating doing similar in future. But Assange is not a good textbook example at this stage, not least because the US don't appear to need to do anything to drop him in it, he seems well capable of destroying himself via an inability to deal sensibly with others, some dodgy attitudes, and quite epic double-standards when it comes to transparency.
Its kind of similar to the way that so much important detail was lost to the cold war, always trumped by the main struggle, truth always overridden by the central narrative.
In the case of Libya this meant that once nato got involved, all fears must be hyped, and all hopeful possibilities denied. In the case of Assange it means downplaying the possibility that the man actually committed an offence. Well bollocks, if detail and truth must be sacrificed in order to wage the struggle effectively then I consider the struggle to be corrupted and likely to produce its own horrors if it ever got anywhere. Theres no need for it, the crimes of empire are great enough already, there is no need to hype them up in absurd ways.
Personally I do think that the US government tends to like to make an example of people in order to act as a powerful deterrent for anyone contemplating doing similar in future. But Assange is not a good textbook example at this stage, not least because the US don't appear to need to do anything to drop him in it, he seems well capable of destroying himself via an inability to deal sensibly with others, some dodgy attitudes, and quite epic double-standards when it comes to transparency.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He hath spoken. Again.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
elbows
Well-Known Member
Says the man who tries to take the high ground when people get abusive with him on forums. Dismal.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's the febrialistic view of politics. It justifies stuff. It' drives people away more than i could ever do.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I find it hard to tell how much it drives people away. His stances have a certain purity that is attractive to quite a lot of people, no matter if it must distort the truth in order to achieve that purity.
In the case of Libya I expect many people applauded his stance. But there is a much greater risk of this sort of stuff backfiring when potential sex-crimes are part of the story, and I doubt dylans will take these criticisms very well, his ego is easily bruised when people question his sermons.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Don't leave, just tone down the "black/white, my enemy's enemy is my friend, you're either for us or against us" stuff. And wait for the verdict before deciding whether a rape took place or not.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I hope you come back, despite my criticisms you are an interesting poster.
I strongly advise you learn some strategies for coping with criticism, its real hard to be someone who enjoys communicating their strong opinions with others without this skill. And it should be do-able, Im exceptionally thin-skinned in real life but I've learnt to stay relatively calm on the net in 90% of my clashes with others.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Nah, fuck off dylans. Don't answer for your crimes.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
If they're seeking his extradition then why haven't they ... sought his extradition?
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Why would they need to? They have trumped up criminal charges which have actually undermined Assange's cause far more than anything they could actually extradite him for.
While one might very well interpret the allegations against Assange as criminal. One of the women are accusing him of unsafe sex, not non-consensual sex. The other is accusing him of "coercion" and "unwanted advances", but Swedish rape law is very strange, and even in that case he is being accused of "minor rape".
It is well known that the allegations "do not meet the European law standard concept of rape". You seem to be arguing they do, or ought to, which I disagree with. Certainly, defending Assange in this case does not constitute "apologising for rape" but whether there is a spectrum of rape.
Yes, but one of the cases were dropped for lack of evidence and then reinstated.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You are wrong. You are not only wrong but you don't even have the basic details of the case right.
Stop posting until you get the facts right rather than parroting Assange's brief "it is well known..."
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
Not true. The only thing that is strange is that a Swedish prosecutor is taking the time to pursue this rape case.
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