butchersapron
Bring back hanging
you said:
you said:
Are you sure of what the point is now?
(You're actually still wrong btw, and you've had all day to get up to speed)
Assange to face extradition
- Thread starter teqniq
- Start date
Are you sure of what the point is now?
(You're actually still wrong btw, and you've had all day to get up to speed)
Yeah, because the question "why is Assange being described as an alleged rapist?" definitely has exactly the same implications as "is Assange a rapist?"
(good to see you signing yourself off in a frank and honest manner, btw - Ra-ha-ha-ha-haa!)
Poo Flakes
Active Member
!
I do not see what you are getting at. I do not think he committed rape, and that the charges are trumped up largely as a result of his political activities. You have asked a bunch of questions around the case while I am also in an argument about whether being accussed of committing rape is the same as being accussed of being a rapist. I am not entirely sure what your point is.
I actually did make a mistake earlier, based on a recollection of a story in the media some time ago, but not on the substance of the allegations. You did not bring me up on that though. You do not seem to have any substance to your comments and have already pissed off someone else, accusing him of defending rape. I have now explained that was a stupid thing to do in this case, followed by a tedious and fruitless conversation about an idiot's guide to Swedish rape law in the Guardian.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You did make a mistake? This is the first time that you've admitted it. You defended your mistake until a few minutes ago. What changed your mind? Reading up and getting informed about the case? And this didn't undermine any of your other assumptions and claims? It will. And making such a serious error doesn't suggest that the rest of your claims may be a little...under researched...does it?
You have not talked about rape in swedish law at all - you've repeated an unsupported claim from Assanges then brief that what count as rape in sweden is not rape in the rest of europe, then provided a link demolishing this claim. You've not once talked about the legal stuff here,you've talked solely about the truth or or otherwise of the charges.
You have not talked about rape in swedish law at all - you've repeated an unsupported claim from Assanges then brief that what count as rape in sweden is not rape in the rest of europe, then provided a link demolishing this claim. You've not once talked about the legal stuff here,you've talked solely about the truth or or otherwise of the charges.
So a question which asks "Is Assange even accused of rape?" (looking at legal technicalities) is the same as "Is Assange a rapist?"
Or have I missed the point of your exclamation mark?
Poo Flakes
Active Member
I made a mistake concerning when the allegations surfaced not on the allegations made, or indeed the issue of retrospective revocation of consent which is relevant to the timing of the allegations. I do not see why that really matters, you do.
In both cases, the issue is of consent. The Guardian article states that a couple of the allegations would have been prosecuted under British law. That is debatable and has been debated to death elsewhere.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, you claimed this
This is not true as i demonstrated,with the help of your own links.Are you back defending this claim after you pointed out that the accusations are
Are you?
You seem unable to separate what you've said (i.e what we're actually talking about) from the case. Odd. At best.
"why is Assange being described as a rapist" (preceded by the dodgy assertion that none of the allegations even suggest rape) seems to me to imply they meant "Is Assange even accused of rape?".
I'd like to think any country would pursue someone for that, wouldn't you agree?
Let´s get a bit pf perspective here.
The US-uk has for over a decade been engaged in a series of blatant imperialist aggressions against essentially the entire Muslim world. Hundreds of thousands of noncombatats, women and children have been murdered by governments who claim to act in our name, for the sole prupose of profit.
The apathy of the British and American peoples in the face of their governments´ murderous policies has been absolutely disgusting. A few demonstrations, a few occupations, nothing likely to give our leaders pause in their quest for blood and oil.
Virtually alone in the Western world, Assange actually did something. Something that had a real, serious effect on the US war machine. He did this at great personal risk to himself. He´s about the closest we have to a hero.
Naturally the US-uk will try to retailiate, using the usual repertoire of dirty tricks. They did the same against Galloway, aother of the few they genuinally fear. That´s to be expected. What isn´t to be expected is for people who imagine themselves to be on the Left to take such smears seriously. Shame on you.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Those are the accusations against him. In the first case, all are linked to the use of a condom.
The second one might not even be penetrative sex they are talking about.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So you stand by the claim that
despite this link from you?
Would you please say yes or no. Do you stand by your claim or not?
you said:
despite this link from you?
Would you please say yes or no. Do you stand by your claim or not?
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Yes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, you stand by your claim that
when you've shown that this is untrue?
He's so fucked.
when you've shown that this is untrue?
He's so fucked.
You disapoint me again. You were the same about Galloway. I think you allow the petty infighting between British ultra Left groupuscles to obscure your view of the larger picture.
Don´t you agree that Assage has done more than any other single individual to throw a spanner in the works of the war mahine?
And don´t you think that was a pretty impressive, very brave, and fairly effective thing to do? And didn´t you assume that the US would attempt to retaliate using whatever dirty tricks they could come up with? And isn´t this precisely the sort of ruse they reglaurly do come up with?
Perspective people, perspective...
Poo Flakes
Active Member
The issue is whether the second person consented, and how she consented, to sex without a condom.
She says she didnt consent - the rest is up to a swedish court to decide.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No,it's about whether you understand what the accusations are. They are not that
They are that he
Whether he you think he did "unlawfully coerce" her is neither her not there. You don't even know what he's been accused of yet you find him innocent of all charges. You're crap.
They are that he
Whether he you think he did "unlawfully coerce" her is neither her not there. You don't even know what he's been accused of yet you find him innocent of all charges. You're crap.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. Surprised by a few on this thread, tbh. And even if every single word of the testimony is true, which I don't believe for one second, the idea that this is worthy of an international police operation is laughable. Would it have happened if you or I had been accused of this? Of course not. Has pressure been brought to bear? Utterly naive and ignorant of history to believe that it hasn't.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
One down phil.
Poo Flakes
Active Member
It is not an issue about whether I believe that the allegation is true or not. That charge is linked to sex without a condom. The allegation is that Assange pinned her down so she could not get to a condom.
Yes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So,then this is untrue according to you
You're the only one - the only person on the entire thread - linking it to whether he allegation is true or not.
(but now the #1 paediatrician hunter is on the thread...)
Poo Flakes
Active Member
Okay, semantically one could make a big issue as to whether the act of forcing someone to have unsafe sex is different from having non-consensual unsafe sex. I would say doing so is a massive waste of time.
To sum up your second sentence:
I think the allegations are untrue like two other people on this page of the thread.
I also explained what those allegations are.
Those are two seperate things.
I would be angry at this dialogue, but I have no idea what is going on now. At first, I thought it was you questioning my knowledge about the charges after I claimed the charges look trumped up. Now, I am at a loss as to what you are actually claiming.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You are playing the role of the convenient idiot on this thread, one with an underlying benchmark faith in authority. And like all convenient idiots, you don't even realise it. You defer to authority in the end, even when you ought to be able to see that the authority is utterly discredited.
I hope you haven't managed to drive dylans from the boards. He has his faults - don't we all - but I like him a lot as a poster, if he happens to be reading this.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The only faith in authority here is faith in assange. It's the mirror image of the idea that the state is always right. You bought it. Now you sell it.
Drive dylans from the boards? He's repeatedly threatened me with real life violence. He got on the wrong bus, of course you're sitting there finger wagging when he got on - all innocent until guilty unless jesus doesn't like you. In which case, forget it.
Drive dylans from the boards? He's repeatedly threatened me with real life violence. He got on the wrong bus, of course you're sitting there finger wagging when he got on - all innocent until guilty unless jesus doesn't like you. In which case, forget it.
elbows
Well-Known Member
It hardly involved hundreds of officers scouring the globe in helicopters now did it? Mostly some paperwork. How nice it must be for possible victims to hear that its not worth the bother of taking their complaint seriously.
Why should Assange be above the law? If someone pokes the US in the eye then we should turn a blind eye to their other activities?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
jesus said:
Read this carefully.Very carefully. Even if it's true doesn't matter. Sexual abuse and rape doesn't matter.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What of the testimony have you read?
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
What is it worthy of then?
Poo Flakes
Active Member
No-one is saying Assange is above the law, simply that it is hardly surprising that when a western dissident is accused of rape, it is highly ambiguous cases in a country where it would be far easier to prosecute.
Utter shite. It is neither Wikileaks nor Assange that locked up a whistleblower without trial for months. While, I presume Assange's innocence you (and others - "Assange is above the law") seem to know, with great conviction, of his guilt (before he has even been charged no less).
The complete lack of faith in the American and British authorities is because state-orchestrated witch-hunts, and bizarre cover-ups (over relatively insignificant issues (Adam Werrity)) have been going on with some regularity for some time. It is entirely reasonable to presume Assange's innocence. Given the circumstances (media coverage alone but also Assange's political activities) and the nature of the allegations, I see sufficient cause to doubt the safety of any verdict.
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