Assange to face extradition

[TruXta]

What is his cause?

 

[elbows]

There is a famous study conducted which showed that even if allegations made against a particular candidate in an election are untrue (and even vindicated in court), the very fact the allegations surfaced can impact the election result. Being accused of rape, being a very serious offence, even if untrue, could diminish Assange's cause. This is what (should) irks people who couldn't really give a flying fuck about Assange or individuals in the open source movement.

Yes, which is why I got pissed off with the way Assange handled the allegations from almost the first moment they arose. For a start if he was so aware of the possibility of being smeared or trapped he should not have put himself in situations which carried that risk. Secondly he should have taken steps to protect wikileaks from any damage to him as an individual personality, but I don't think he could do that because it seems likely that he hasn't actually built an organisation that functions without him. Then some aspects of his defence upset me greatly in a way similar to some of the posts on this thread, the urge to dismiss the allegations at any cost.

 

[elbows]

What is his cause?

According to page 5 of this year-old interview with Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2010/11/29/an-interview-with-wikileaks-julian-assange/5/

Would you call yourself a free market proponent?
Absolutely. I have mixed attitudes towards capitalism, but I love markets. Having lived and worked in many countries, I can see the tremendous vibrancy in, say, the Malaysian telecom sector compared to U.S. sector. In the U.S. everything is vertically integrated and sewn up, so you don’t have a free market. In Malaysia, you have a broad spectrum of players, and you can see the benefits for all as a result.
How do your leaks fit into that?
To put it simply, in order for there to be a market, there has to be information. A perfect market requires perfect information.
There’s the famous lemon example in the used car market. It’s hard for buyers to tell lemons from good cars, and sellers can’t get a good price, even when they have a good car.
By making it easier to see where the problems are inside of companies, we identify the lemons. That means there’s a better market for good companies. For a market to be free, people have to know who they’re dealing with.
You’ve developed a reputation as anti-establishment and anti-institution.
Not at all. Creating a well-run establishment is a difficult thing to do, and I’ve been in countries where institutions are in a state of collapse, so I understand the difficulty of running a company. Institutions don’t come from nowhere.
It’s not correct to put me in any one philosophical or economic camp, because I’ve learned from many. But one is American libertarianism, market libertarianism. So as far as markets are concerned I’m a libertarian, but I have enough expertise in politics and history to understand that a free market ends up as monopoly unless you force them to be free.
WikiLeaks is designed to make capitalism more free and ethical.

So, quite aside from issues surrounding the legal case, I know that some people view Assange with suspicion for other reasons, including his apparent desire to be a for-profit information brokerage.

 

[phildwyer]

Comparing Assange to Galloway is unfair on Assange, I hope. Assange is a rather egotistic hacker, possibly with a big problem relating to women, but he seems to be on a genuine mission. Galloway is a self-aggrandizing bully who uses politics to further his own personal brand, picking up and dropping ethnic groups and international causes as it pleases him.

Who cares about their personalities?

You are simply falling in with the agenda of the right wing press, which attacks the causes by focussing on the supposed personality flaws of the leaders.

This has been done so many times before, with Benn, Scargill, Livingstone etc., that you´´d have thought that people would have seen through it by now. But nooooo... it seems there is no end to some people´s credulity.

Larger than life strongmen

Is this Assange you´re talking about now? Perhaps Bradley Manning?

 

[danny la rouge]

The problem is having leaders. Don't have leaders.

 

[phildwyer]

What is his cause?

Subverting the war effort.

I´´call that a damn good cause. And he has pursued it more effectively than anyone else, with the possible exception of Galloway.

And quelle surprise these two just happen to be the most demonized figures in the media. For Leftists to fall for this bullshit is truly worrying.

 

[Combustible]

I'd have thought that it is more worrying when 'Leftists' think someone should be given a free hand to commit rape because they helped run a website which published leaked documents myself.

 

[phildwyer]

I'd have thought that it is more worrying when 'Leftists' think someone should be given a free hand to commit rape because they helped run a website which published leaked documents myself.

1. Nobody has said that.

2. You know perfectly well that nobody has said that.

3. Everyone knows that you know perfectly well that nobody has said that.

4. Everyone knows that you are an unscrupulous and dishonest debater.

5. Nobody will take you seriously from now on.

 

[Fedayn]

1. Nobody has said that.

2. You know perfectly well that nobody has said that.

3. Everyone knows that you know perfectly well that nobody has said that.

4. Everyone knows that you are an unscrupulous and dishonest debater.

5. Nobody will take you seriously from now on.

What he may have done isn't worthy of being properly investigated apparently.

Yep. Surprised by a few on this thread, tbh. And even if every single word of the testimony is true, which I don't believe for one second, the idea that this is worthy of an international police operation is laughable. Would it have happened if you or I had been accused of this? Of course not. Has pressure been brought to bear? Utterly naive and ignorant of history to believe that it hasn't.

 

[phildwyer]

What he may have done isn't worthy of being properly investigated apparently.

The point is that they most certainly wouldn´t be chasing him over it if he wasn´t who he is.

Therefore it is a political prosecution.

 

[Fedayn]

The point is that they most certainly wouldn´t be chasing him over it if he wasn´t who he is.

Therefore it is a political prosecution.

It's the same shite i've seen before. The same old cult of personality drivel that he's one of ours therefore it doesn't matter what he might have done, sexual assault, pssible rape included. It's pathetic.... Defend the free marketer at all costs....

 

[Combustible]

1. Nobody has said that.

Firstly someone has said in this very thread.

And even if every single word of the testimony is true, which I don't believe for one second, the idea that this is worthy of an international police operation is laughable.

I will concede that it is not so much a call for someone to be given a free hand to commit rape if they publish leaked documents, more gives them a free hand providing they flee the country before being questioned.

However more importantly if you think about for a second, anyone that assumes a priori that any accusations against Assange (or anyone else) are necessarily false and politically motivated are doing exactly what I said they are doing.

 

[Combustible]

The point is that they most certainly wouldn´t be chasing him over it if he wasn´t who he is.

Therefore it is a political prosecution.

As I posted earlier there are plenty of examples of European Arrest Warrants being issued over far less serious charges. Are these all politically motivated?

EAWs have been sought for such offences as bicycle theft, possession of 0.45 grams of cannabis, removing car tyres and stealing piglets. More than 2,400 requests were received by the UK from Poland last year.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What he may have done isn't worthy of being properly investigated apparently.

I didn't say that, did I? A complaint should be investigated, of course, and if it is found that there is no case to answer, it is not then taken further. I see no case to answer here, certainly no cause for anyone to be incarcerated. I also agree with dylans that the whole case is a perversion of feminism. I worry about the direction Sweden is going in in this regard, both in terms of this law and others such as its attitude to prostitution.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

He is alleged to have had sex with a sleeping woman. she states she did not consent to this and felt aggrived by such a violation. Furthermore, he did not use a condom, which was said to be a pre requisite for consent. This is not a perversion of feminism, and there is a case to answer.

 

[Poo Flakes]

For a start if he was so aware of the possibility of being smeared or trapped he should not have put himself in situations which carried that risk.

Since he opted to be the figurehead, he should have been particularly careful. I completely agree with that.

This is not a perversion of feminism, and there is a case to answer.

A preversion of feminism would be to use rape laws to smear a specific individual. That is what some people suspect is going on here. The specifics of the case are, by any standard, a grey area. It is far from clear whether "there is a case to answer". I am not even sure the Swedish courts believe there is to be a case to answer yet.

http://www.thelocal.se/31934/20110209/

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Since he opted to be the figurehead, he should have been particularly careful. I completely agree with that.



A preversion of feminism would be to use rape laws to smear a specific individual. That is what some people suspect is going on here. The specifics of the case are, by any standard, a grey area. It is far from clear whether "there is a case to answer". I am not even sure the Swedish courts believe there is to be a case to answer yet.

http://www.thelocal.se/31934/20110209/

The british courts do. Theres been a long and protracted legal battle, the outcome of which is also the subject of this thread. A few pages back I linked to the sumary of the appeal judges ruling, which states very clearly why Assange needs to answer some questions in sweden, which may or may not lead to him being charged. "a case to answer" if you like.

 

[Poo Flakes]

Apparently the Swedish court documents were leaked which actually goes into much more detail than the Judge's verdict on the extradition. Have you got a link to them?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

if he was so aware of the possibility of being smeared or trapped he should not have put himself in situations which carried that risk.

Sorry, but if he has been set up, blaming him for allowing it to happen really is a bit rich.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Apparently the Swedish court documents were leaked which actually goes into much more detail than the Judge's verdict on the extradition. Have you got a link to them?

No. wonder if they'll be on wikileaks?

 

[butchersapron]

There are details of the leaks here. BTW, they do away with the suggestion that the euro-warrent was some sort of special harassment, it was because he fled sweden before an agreed meeting with the prosecutor.

 

[Fedayn]

I didn't say that, did I? A complaint should be investigated, of course, and if it is found that there is no case to answer, it is not then taken further. I see no case to answer here, certainly no cause for anyone to be incarcerated. I also agree with dylans that the whole case is a perversion of feminism. I worry about the direction Sweden is going in in this regard, both in terms of this law and others such as its attitude to prostitution.

Yes you did, you complained about the EAW. Assange fled the country, how else do they investigate an alleged rapist without issuing a warrant?!

 

[temper_tantrum]

This thread is very depressing.

 

[butchersapron]

Assange gets direct ability to ask the SC if he can appeal - odd?

 

[danny la rouge]

Story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16027942

 

[sihhi]

Has anyone watched this documentary?

It's pro-Guardian, NYT. But it does suggest Wikileaks didn't give a monkey's about moving Bradley Manning to another country after he'd leaked the information. They're fighting for Assange when Bradley Manning is the guy they should have gotten to somewhere that doesn't have a legal treaty with the USA like Abkhazia or somewhere.
I think approaching the Cuban government would have been an idea aswell but Wikileaks aka Assange's pet didn't even think about him.

The consequences for other military leakers are pretty bad. Who else will want to leak knowing that you get sleep deprivation in a four feet cell? Wikileaks don't seem to care.

Adrian Lamo. There are no words for him.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/wikileaks-secrets-and-lies/4od

 

[equationgirl]

I saw the documentary. I was horrified that Bradley Manning was basically abandoned by Wikileaks after he put his life on the line to get the information out.

I didn't think Assange came across very well - kind of reminded me of a blonder younger David Icke.

It was interesting to hear the views of the Guardian and the New York Times.

 

[butchersapron]

Supreme Court will hear Assange case - feb.

 

[rekil]

Rolling Stone interview.

He's barking.

Rolling Stone: WikiLeaks has been credited, even by its critics, with fueling the Arab Spring, and even Occupy Wall Street. Was this your plan? Did you imagine you could have this kind of impact?

Assange: We planned for most of what has occurred over the past 12 months. It is fair to say we're unexpectedly delighted that those plans came to fruition.

And rubbish at internet.

Back when we last did a survey, in February, there were a total of 33 million references on the Internet to the word "rape" in any context, from Helen of Troy to the Congo. If you search for "rape" and my name, there were just over 20 million. In other words, perceptively, two-thirds of all rapes that have ever happened anywhere in the world, ever, have something to do with me.

 

[elbows]

Its always ugly when EgoLeaks