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Assange seeks asylum in Ecuador embassy, London

it's more like she bungs them money - that guest editorship didn't come free! But yes, she and her claque had a bit of shock when Green (lib-dem member, boo!) told them the legal truth. Why didn't they just check before? Lazy lazy people.
 
The Keynes, he used to boast when he was editor that he wrote the whole thing himself before lunch - and the pseudonyms he used backed it up. That sort of arrogance never goes - unless it's taken away.
 
They hosted Rory Carroll's latest shit Chavez piece. I read somewhere that his wife is the daughter of a Venezuelan media mogul but I can't find any confirmation.

His "article" had more innuendo than Bob Monkhouse's library of joke books, but fuck-all substantive.
 
The Pilge speaks:

Assange hate is the real cult

Sad stuff.
I think I am coming to terms with the fact that important figures in a generation who did their bit for just struggle have gone past their sell by date. Their priorities stagnated, their sense of which injustices may be overlooked for the sake of 'bigger battles' are increasingly repugnant and self-defeating. I doubt many can maintain the purity of their moral highground forever, and even the brave, clear of thought and uncompromising will one day find themselves compromised.

It will be a challenge to avoid paralysis when we attempt not to let one concern trump another. But we should still try, with the battle cry of no excuses, no exemptions, no immune gods beyond reproach, no holding of noses, looking the other way, no license to excuse certain double-standards and tell us this is justifiable and necessary in the name of the cause and the struggle. Cynicism has a downside but it has grown for a reason, the lessons of both the bloody and the brave experiments of the 20th century cannot be picked from selectively, hero's without flaws are a lie.
 
I think I am coming to terms with the fact that important figures in a generation who did their bit for just struggle have gone past their sell by date. Their priorities stagnated, their sense of which injustices may be overlooked for the sake of 'bigger battles' are increasingly repugnant and self-defeating. I doubt many can maintain the purity of their moral highground forever, and even the brave, clear of thought and uncompromising will one day find themselves compromised.

It will be a challenge to avoid paralysis when we attempt not to let one concern trump another. But we should still try, with the battle cry of no excuses, no exemptions, no immune gods beyond reproach, no holding of noses, looking the other way, no license to excuse certain double-standards and tell us this is justifiable and necessary in the name of the cause and the struggle. Cynicism has a downside but it has grown for a reason, the lessons of both the bloody and the brave experiments of the 20th century cannot be picked from selectively, hero's without flaws are a lie.

Useful idiot for the Empire.
 
This is an especially revealing exchange:

Interviewer: But [the complainant] did not at first say that she had been raped.
Borgström: Yes, but she is not a lawyer.


Do you mean interesting, in that it's a single line quote that could be either entirely reasonable or unreasonable depending on what was then said, but there's no way to know because the link from your cite just takes you to a login page for a newspaper?
 
Do you mean interesting, in that it's a single line quote that could be either entirely reasonable or unreasonable depending on what was then said, but there's no way to know because the link from your cite just takes you to a login page for a newspaper?

Interesting because it confirms that the rape allegations are nothing more than a smokescreen to rationalize Assange's deportation in the eyes of idiots.
 
Useful idiot for the Empire.

Oh yeah, right, because the struggles against particular empires in the 20th century didnt tell us all we need to know about the downsides of framing struggle in such simplistic terms? Yes I'm the idiot for seeking to avoid replacing one form of grotesque power with foundations fit for another.

Bollocks, its ideas that have improved peoples lot, and its not too much to ask that the new hero's who big themselves up preaching sweet ideas might actually be able to live up to them and be held to their own standards.
 
Oh yeah, right, because the struggles against particular empires in the 20th century didnt tell us all we need to know about the downsides of framing struggle in such simplistic terms? Yes I'm the idiot for seeking to avoid replacing one form of grotesque power with foundations fit for another.

No, but you're behaving like an idiot by believing the transparently obvious lies that are transparently obviously being used to destroy someone who has done real, significant damage to the Empire.
 
Speaking as a bigoted victim-blaming, misogynist monster out to oppress women I still think he's being set up.
 
Interesting because it confirms that the rape allegations are nothing more than a smokescreen to rationalize Assange's deportation in the eyes of idiots.


Actually it confirms fuck all. As stated, it's a single line, and your cite doesn't give anyway to check the entire response. That statement could easily lead into something entirely reasonable, such as "Yes, but she is not a lawyer. She was not sure if her ordeal counted as rape."
 
No, but you're behaving like an idiot by believing the transparently obvious lies that are transparently obviously being used to destroy someone who has done real, significant damage to the Empire.

I spent many hours discussing the case in the past and I'm not about to repeat it for your benefit. Assanges flaws were numerous and he would not listen to those who warned him that his weaknesses exposed him to risk.

Nor do I believe in overstating the significance of the damage he has done to empire, as opposed to say the damage he has done to his own cause as the result of various ego-related failings.

To pretend that wikileaks has done serious damage to the US empire would be to suggest that prior to the leaks the US was doing just fine on the propaganda front. This would be a tricky sell at the best of times, but after the wars of the neo-con Bush years it is simply preposterous. The contents of the diplomatic cables were almost entirely unsurprising to anyone that ever poked their nose into state papertrails in the past. More worldviews were probably shifted by the failure to find WMD in Iraq than any of the wikileaks.
 
To pretend that wikileaks has done serious damage to the US empire would be to suggest that prior to the leaks the US was doing just fine on the propaganda front. This would be a tricky sell at the best of times, but after the wars of the neo-con Bush years it is simply preposterous. The contents of the diplomatic cables were almost entirely unsurprising to anyone that ever poked their nose into state papertrails in the past. More worldviews were probably shifted by the failure to find WMD in Iraq than any of the wikileaks.

Leaks regarding the corruption of the Ben Ali regime, Mubarak and Gaddafi were widely shared amongst activists and undeniably played a significant role in the Arab spring. To say this has no impact on the US is foolish, it is massive. The issue of WMD's was purely for domestic audiences at the time and had no affect on the wider world what so ever
 
Leaks regarding the corruption of the Ben Ali regime, Mubarak and Gaddafi were widely shared amongst activists and undeniably played a significant role in the Arab spring. To say this has no impact on the US is foolish, it is massive. The issue of WMD's was purely for domestic audiences at the time and had no affect on the wider world what so ever
They played no role whatsoever. Nice C&P
 
Leaks regarding the corruption of the Ben Ali regime, Mubarak and Gaddafi were widely shared amongst activists and undeniably played a significant role in the Arab spring. To say this has no impact on the US is foolish, it is massive.

The significance of such things is easy to overstate. Without being at the heart of one of those uprisings, rather than simply observing it from afar in english, I would not like to reach a judgement about the extent of its influence.

Its far too early to draw conclusions about the longer-term implications of the arab spring for the US & pals, but its not exactly weakened them significantly so far. In fact if we go back and read some of the rhetoric about freedom and democracy in that region that came out during certain periods of the Bush era, the arab spring has at least the potential of serving that agenda and improving their democratic propaganda credibility. Such rhetoric was taken by many western commentators at the time as being a bad joke that was incompatible with real US aims and practical considerations in the region, but over time it may actually work, given that kings and dictators are out of fashion and the current empires and economic orders have tended to wear different masks and exert control in different ways in the modern era. I am not one of those people who cynically assumed that all the revolutions had the hidden hand of the US behind them, but events can still be turned to their advantage and sanitise some unhelpful old-school forms of control that were a propaganda embarrassment in the process.
 
Anyway the thrust of my position is not that the wikileaks were all useless, on that front I am only interested in not overstating matters.

I was more interested in the idea that Assange undermined his own cause on a number of levels, including stuff he said and did before the rape allegations. He contradicted his own stated ideals about information, control, etc in disgusting ways that I cannot be bothered to go into detail about again right now. And at the very least by recklessly leaving himself open to obvious risk, he destroyed one of his stated aims of giving whistleblowers the confidence and ability to carry out their brave acts without being cowed by fear. And that by avoiding the justice process in the manner that he has done so far, he has not only made a mockery of the concept of accountability but has also damaged his own reputation and cause in a manner that the US could never have managed on its own. When the shit hits the fan people step down from important organisations they care about and fight to clear their name for a reason, he did neither.
 
Anyway the thrust of my position is not that the wikileaks were all useless, on that front I am only interested in not overstating matters.

I was more interested in the idea that Assange undermined his own cause on a number of levels, including stuff he said and did before the rape allegations. He contradicted his own stated ideals about information, control, etc in disgusting ways that I cannot be bothered to go into detail about again right now. And at the very least by recklessly leaving himself open to obvious risk, he destroyed one of his stated aims of giving whistleblowers the confidence and ability to carry out their brave acts without being cowed by fear. And that by avoiding the justice process in the manner that he has done so far, he has not only made a mockery of the concept of accountability but has also damaged his own reputation and cause in a manner that the US could never have managed on its own. When the shit hits the fan people step down from important organisations they care about and fight to clear their name for a reason, he did neither.

I don't know about that.

But I do know that he's achieved more, politically speaking, than all the posters on this board put together.
 
The problem with this Assange case is people are more interested in did he or didnt he rape the two women rather than the bigger picture of what war crimes US/UK/NATO have got up to in their wars around the world. I'm not saying the rape charges shouldnt be addressed, just that people shouldnt forget the war crimes that Wikileaks leaked, which seems to be a secondary item compared to what is hapening to Assange.

eta: Betcha loads of women got raped by US/UK/NATO forces in Iraq/Afganistan
 
hold on a minute- are you really saying that he gets a free pass on facing up to rape accusations because world powers also done bad things.
think about that- he held a woman down and stuck his penis in her but we should ignore that because he was involved in an operation that brought to light other entirely unrelated bad things? have a word sunny, really.
 
No, Im saying the war crimes perpetrated by western forces, of which there are many, have been given secondary importance to Assange's rape charges. I did say his rape charges should be addressed but people shouldnt forget about the numerous war crimes committed by US/UK/NATO. And I say again I bet US/UK/NATO personnel were responsible for raping local women in Iraq/Afganistan, just like the way they used torture as weapon of war. Assange dosent get a free pass, but neither should US/UK/NATO either and people might get distracted by the Assange rape case and forget about the much larger crimes that went on.
 
Its not just world powers have done bad things - Wikileaks put that infomation into the global sphere, so thats quite a big connection.
 
hold on a minute- are you really saying that he gets a free pass on facing up to rape accusations because world powers also done bad things.

Not if you actually read what he wrote.

I'm not saying the rape charges shouldnt be addressed, just that people shouldnt forget the war crimes that Wikileaks leaked, which seems to be a secondary item compared to what is hapening to Assange.
 
People aren't forgetting them. They are, justifiably, a bit pissed off that Assange's cult of personality is acquiring gravity lensing mass.
 
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