I used to identify with anarchism. I think I’m more at the libertarian end of Marxism though. Never been a member of an org but been a fellow traveller with some. Being fully signed up to an org probably requires more commitment than I’m able to give. I’m fucking lazy tbh.
Are you an anarchist but not a member of an anarchist organisation?
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
I have a really strong aversion to the kind of categorisation and labelling of people that results in being able to say, “yes, I am an anarchist“. Not because I dislike categories in and of themselves (quite the reverse — they can be really useful). But because once somebody attaches a label to themself (and a label to somebody else), all debate seems to devolve into arguing about the labels rather than the ideas.
I don’t think I really quite know what an anarchist is and I don’t think anarchists do either — at least in a way that is coherent and reliable. I have a good idea of what anarchist ideas are. And anarchism as a pure political philosophy. I believe many of these ideas and philosophical concepts are good ones, and could form the basis of a pretty solid alternative to the dreadful state we’re currently in. But I don’t think that makes me “an anarchist”.
What this kind of thinking goes along with is also a deep distrust of groups that cohere around being a label. My impression of it is exactly what I saw in the London Bookfair thread — lots of political posturing and power dynamics to control the label. I don’t want to spend my time with people who think like that, frankly.
It might also surprise people on this message board to know that I’m also too “live and let live” to spend my time trying to organise other people to change their lives. Like 8ball said — I don’t have sufficient certainty about what is right to do that. I wish I did, really. Instead, I end up in a kind of default despairing nihilism, where I feel it‘s all hopeless. Or rather, I feel that societies find ways to adapt and alter, and this process is way more powerful than individuals with predetermined theories about the best way to sort stuff out.
I’m going to stop there, because I could end up writing 1000 words on this. I don’t know that I’ve really explained myself, but there is some braindump for you anyway.
I don’t think I really quite know what an anarchist is and I don’t think anarchists do either — at least in a way that is coherent and reliable. I have a good idea of what anarchist ideas are. And anarchism as a pure political philosophy. I believe many of these ideas and philosophical concepts are good ones, and could form the basis of a pretty solid alternative to the dreadful state we’re currently in. But I don’t think that makes me “an anarchist”.
What this kind of thinking goes along with is also a deep distrust of groups that cohere around being a label. My impression of it is exactly what I saw in the London Bookfair thread — lots of political posturing and power dynamics to control the label. I don’t want to spend my time with people who think like that, frankly.
It might also surprise people on this message board to know that I’m also too “live and let live” to spend my time trying to organise other people to change their lives. Like 8ball said — I don’t have sufficient certainty about what is right to do that. I wish I did, really. Instead, I end up in a kind of default despairing nihilism, where I feel it‘s all hopeless. Or rather, I feel that societies find ways to adapt and alter, and this process is way more powerful than individuals with predetermined theories about the best way to sort stuff out.
I’m going to stop there, because I could end up writing 1000 words on this. I don’t know that I’ve really explained myself, but there is some braindump for you anyway.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, I've been thinking about commenting on the type of dysfunctional people small (e2a: not just small actually!) political groups attract, anarchist ones especially seem to have more than their fair share of people that are complete nightmare.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
This is almost exactly what I'd say for myself so if I have to join a stupid group I'll join the Kabbes Front. It seems a good bet that there'd never be any meetings to go to.
Peter Painter
Well-Known Member
Can you explain a little more what you mean by, a "lifestyle type organisation", please?
I like to think that my lifestyle, which includes living off grid on squatted land and being part of an extended community loosely based upon anarchist principles (co-operation, direct action, diy ethos, no hierarchy, etc, etc), is a reflection and/or expression of my politics. But as far as I know there's no organisation, so to speak of, which represents my lifestyle. (And even if there were, I still probably wouldn't join it!).
The only anarchist organisations that I am aware of appear to me to be more about the politics than about any particular type of lifestyle.
But perhaps I'm missing something obvious or am being naive...?
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danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I can’t give an example of a lifestyle organisation particularly, because I have no firsthand experience of such. But by lifestyle anarchism, I mean people who express their anarchism through lifestyle choices, perhaps withdrawing from mainstream society culturally or even physically, and believing that individualist bohemianism is in itself rebellion. The subcultural end of the scene, if you will.
I’ve met some here in Glasgow during the COP, and they’re fine people, but it’s neither the type of thing I mean by anarchism, nor, frankly, is it something I think will ever gain mass appeal.
Rather, the direct action I’m interested in is in and by existing working class communities and workplaces, and involves building and amplifying working class self-confidence and so on.
I’m not meaning this to be sectarian, it’s just that I think the two tendencies are quite different politically.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I’d say there aren’t any particularly dysfunctional people that I’ve noticed in my current organisation, but that does probably mean it’s me.
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Any modern anarchist books people would recommend? I was going to start a new thread recently, but think it's okay to ask here.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
That one by Russell Brand maybe?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Well done on posting from off the grid fwiw. I can barely even manage an AND gate using twigs and leaves.
Um, I am too shy to join anything which involves meeting people for contentious chat, so no, have never been any sort of anarchist. (or anything else since I was in my 20s). However, I think I have done a fantastic job of raising 3 quite furious, informed and activist-y anarcho offspring... and, in a very small and local way, I think my understanding of anarchist theories of mutual support has definitely enabled me to maintain an optimistic and non-cynical position within my neighbourhood. I always feel slightly awkward about situating myself anywhere on the political spectrum because I am a bit thick when it comes down to actual political theory and shit and rely on fairly vague emotional positions which prioritise empathy and, I fear, woolly ideas of social justice and such. A bit hopeless but means well. Probably the most anarchisty thing I do is filling in some of my neighbour's benefit claims. Word has got out that I have a good turn of phrase or something. That and a decent success rate in blagging the govt. has made my services quite popular.
I am a horticultural anarchist, too.
I am a horticultural anarchist, too.
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Raheem
Well-Known Member
Nothing I've ever been involved in has been explicitly anarchist. I think I subscribe to much of what could be termed an anarchist reading of history and society. But I think it's a tough moment in history to be a philosophical anarchist. Specifically, it seems like there's no practical way to deal with climate change without calling on the power of governments. None of us chose to be where we are, but anarchism would deny us a way out, it seems to me.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
how much of this conversation gets fed back to special branch?
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Just your posts and anything about baked potato toppings.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
I don’t envy them
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
If they don't know this shit already, then what the fuck are we paying our taxes for?!?!
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Peter Painter
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
I probably fall into the category of lifestyle anarchist then because in some ways I have deliberately chosen to reject much, and remove myself from, mainstream society.
I agree with you that such a lifestyle will almost certainly never have mass appeal, though for me that's not really the point. I do see it as a form of rebellion, but not one which really has any importance or significance to anyone but myself. It's certainly not revolutionary!
The direct action you're interested in is the important stuff. The building of class confidence and class consciousness, the provision of examples of alternative ways of thinking and of doing things, the fights and campaigns for better working and living conditions; all these things and more are things that anarchist organisations (formal and/or informal) can help with.
I do think though, that as others have said above, location is a huge factor. I've spent very little time in Scotland (I did visit for the G8 in 2005) and have never been to Glasgow (though I'm keen to sometime). Nevertheless, I do have a sense that there is far more class solidarity and general left-wing sentiment where you are than in my home town in the South East of England.
One of the first books I ever read about anarchism was Stuart Christie's, 'Granny made me...', and that had a big impact on me. I'm aware of the history and tradition of left-wing politics in Glasgow, and I am full of respect and admiration for activists such as yourself. That video I saw on here a while back of the people in Kenmure Street forcing the Border Control people to release those two men, that really warmed my heart. But at the same time I was thinking, "that might be able to happen in Glasgow but it'd never happen in Kent."
Perhaps if there had been more class consciousness and class solidarity in the community I was brought up in, I might have been less inclined to want to 'escape' society and find an alternative ("lifestyle anarchist", if you like) community to become a part of.
And I suppose really that that's as good an argument as any for trying to set something up or get something going in the places where there isn't much or any anarchist presence.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'm not seeing much in the way of practical dealing with climate change from governments and their unenviable record over the past 30 odd years shows that despite warning after warning after warning they would see us all roasted alive or drowned if they were left to their own devices. as numerous reports of the cop26 summit have made plain the only way this gets sorted by governments is if we fuck shit up and keep the pressure on.
it's like the auld story of a lost traveller in the countryside asking directions from a farmer who thinks for a moment and then prefixes his directions with 'i wouldn't start from here' but here we are. unless we abandon capitalism and move to a more equitable mode of production for need rather than er greed then we're all fucked. if we lived in an anarchist society now, we wouldn't be in this situation anyway.
seeformiles
Lost in the wood
I like to quietly plough my own furrow but have been involved in a lot of unofficial stuff. In my last long term job I used to give advice to groups on issues and internal battles with management as well as local government, public transport, etc. I also provided an informal document/letter-writing/template service for staff less than confident in their abilities when dealing with “authority” (e.g. parking fines, insurance companies, line managers, etc.) on a word-of-mouth confidential basis. It was a very gratifying thing to get a result for someone who management thought would be a pushover. Taking an official paid position for these sorts of things has never appealed to me at all as being under the radar suits my personality much more.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
All the useful bits of stuff that can be practicably done and also can be claimed to be "anarchism" don't need to be done under that label anyway. 99% of informal organising to get things done at a local level, outside of official processes isn't done by people who write the A symbol in toilet cubicles or type out waffly essays on urban75 or fantasise about sending politicians to prison camps in the Antarctic. It's more likely to be done by retired people who vote liberal democrat.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
seems to me you're in a stupid group all of your own
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
You can keep your factions - fraktion 4 life!
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petee
no gods, no malarkey
including this, which may be of benefit to a poster above
Malatesta and Organisation - Anarchist Communist Group
Written over a century ago, Malatesta’s arguments for the importance of organisation are as relevant today as ever. However for many in the anarchist movement the idea of ‘organisation’ is a dirty word. Malatesta, by stressing the importance of organisation for anarchists confirms an important...
www.anarchistcommunism.org
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
including this, which may be of benefit to a poster above
Malatesta and Organisation - Anarchist Communist Group
Written over a century ago, Malatesta’s arguments for the importance of organisation are as relevant today as ever. However for many in the anarchist movement the idea of ‘organisation’ is a dirty word. Malatesta, by stressing the importance of organisation for anarchists confirms an important...
I was going to suggest Malatesta, but it can hardly be described as ‘modern’…
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
modern as in post-1789
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I had a go at this yesterday with a raging hangover, so apologies for the slightly defeatist tone to it:
Labels - I vacillate between anarchism, communism and thinking that labels just aren't all that helpful, given where we are. Partly that is wishy washiness on my part or maybe not thinking things through enough (or the lack of the iron discipline of being in a national org with a sensible political education pathway, lol). But I generally have more success talking to people about ideas than using labels as shorthand, as both communism and anarchism are pretty tarnished for most people. That sense of them being tarnished probably does put me off nailing my colours to the mast of an organisaiton that is explicitly anarchist/communist too.
Cynicism - the revolution seems further away every day and whilst I have a great appreciation for what the ACG does and the people who are in it, I can't help feeling that the difference it makes is pretty marginal. And I also don't think me being involved would make much difference to that small difference. This isn't because the ACG is doing anything wrong, it's more that the balance of forces is completely nuts. I think probably if I was going to get involved with anything it would be quite local, where I could make more of a difference, but I don't do much of that either because of...
Time/energy - 8 hours work, 8 hours sleep, leaves 8 hours for the other stuff. That does sometimes include going to the odd political meeting or demo. But not in a sustained way really. I'm pretty sure that the ACG doesn't demand 24/7 militancy, but I guess it does need people to contribute and turn up to things and that probably isn't me at the moment.
Openly middle class - I have acted in accordance with my material interests and accepted a couple of promotions in recent years. I now have an objectively middle class job with senior management responsibilities. So quite handily I can use my purist stance on revolutionary organisations needing to be composed of working class people to opt out of having to join one.
Labels - I vacillate between anarchism, communism and thinking that labels just aren't all that helpful, given where we are. Partly that is wishy washiness on my part or maybe not thinking things through enough (or the lack of the iron discipline of being in a national org with a sensible political education pathway, lol). But I generally have more success talking to people about ideas than using labels as shorthand, as both communism and anarchism are pretty tarnished for most people. That sense of them being tarnished probably does put me off nailing my colours to the mast of an organisaiton that is explicitly anarchist/communist too.
Cynicism - the revolution seems further away every day and whilst I have a great appreciation for what the ACG does and the people who are in it, I can't help feeling that the difference it makes is pretty marginal. And I also don't think me being involved would make much difference to that small difference. This isn't because the ACG is doing anything wrong, it's more that the balance of forces is completely nuts. I think probably if I was going to get involved with anything it would be quite local, where I could make more of a difference, but I don't do much of that either because of...
Time/energy - 8 hours work, 8 hours sleep, leaves 8 hours for the other stuff. That does sometimes include going to the odd political meeting or demo. But not in a sustained way really. I'm pretty sure that the ACG doesn't demand 24/7 militancy, but I guess it does need people to contribute and turn up to things and that probably isn't me at the moment.
Openly middle class - I have acted in accordance with my material interests and accepted a couple of promotions in recent years. I now have an objectively middle class job with senior management responsibilities. So quite handily I can use my purist stance on revolutionary organisations needing to be composed of working class people to opt out of having to join one.
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