Are you an anarchist but not a member of an anarchist organisation?

[teuchter]

As said above, we do. But then of course the best of our activities end up disassociated from anarchism, rather perpetuating the problem in which people say "what do anarchists actually achieve though?"

Why's that a "problem"?

 

[Rob Ray]

I mean your organisation itself, though, rather than the things it does. Maybe more people would be interested in joining you, and helping you to do the not-exactly-anarchism stuff that you do. That's kind of what the thread started being about, right?

This is known as a front, and is generally frowned on as being pretty misleading. Plus it doesn't work, the world isn't entirely full of stupid people, they tend to read the Aims and Principles and be "oh so you're anarchists."

Why's that a "problem"?

Because ultimately it doesn't matter what the label is it'll be pilloried in the same way because it's a challenge to the status quo, and then what, change the name again? Start from scratch? What's the point of that? Plus unlike Hermes we can't just peel off the old label and stick Evri on all our vans, there's 150 years-worth of literature on the subject which is all branded "anarchism" that we'd kind of like people to read.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I mean your organisation itself, though, rather than the things it does. Maybe more people would be interested in joining you, and helping you to do the not-exactly-anarchism stuff that you do. That's kind of what the thread started being about, right?

I thought the question was directed at anarchists. Anyway, broader church orgs tend to attract loons.

 

[Shechemite]

. Anyway, broader church orgs tend to attract loons.

Urban isn’t that bad is it?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Urban isn’t that bad is it?

It has indeed. But I was thinking more along the lines of Occupy.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It has indeed. But I was thinking more along the lines of Occupy.

It's a bit of a conundrum, isn't it? For example, the strength of the Arab Spring movements was also their weakness. Decentralised and leaderless, they were impossible to suppress, but their lack of centralisation and leadership also meant that there was no clear pathway forwards once the regimes had been toppled.

 

[teuchter]

This is known as a front, and is generally frowned on as being pretty misleading. Plus it doesn't work, the world isn't entirely full of stupid people, they tend to read the Aims and Principles and be "oh so you're anarchists."

Change the aims and principles to reflect what the group actually does, then.

Because ultimately it doesn't matter what the label is it'll be pilloried in the same way because it's a challenge to the status quo, and then what, change the name again? Start from scratch? What's the point of that?

My question was why it's a problem if the best of your activities end up disassociated with "anarchism", and people ask "what do anarchists actually achieve?"

The answer is fairly simple: "quite a bit of good stuff, but not really anarchism". It's better than "nothing".

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's a bit of a conundrum, isn't it? For example, the strength of the Arab Spring movements was also their weakness. Decentralised and leaderless, they were impossible to suppress, but their lack of centralisation and leadership also meant that there was no clear pathway forwards once the regimes had been toppled.

And they could easily be hijacked/subverted. Which brings us back round to why you need orgs and structures.

 

[Rob Ray]

The answer is fairly simple: "quite a bit of good stuff, but not really anarchism". It's better than "nothing".

So to be clear, your strategic advice is for us to not do anarchist stuff and not call ourselves anarchists. Great stuff thanks mate, I'll file that brilliant plan right alongside the works of Sun Tzu.

Oh no, it fell in the bin, shame .

 

[JimW]

What we need is TikTok influencers and Minecraft streamers of the left

 

[Petcha]

Anarchists voting on whether or not they're anarchists...?

Gotta be a pisstake. I had gathered voting on anything was anathema to an anarchist? Gonna stay out of this thread but that's pretty funny.

 

[DotCommunist]

Anarchists voting on whether or not they're anarchists...?

Gotta be a pisstake. I had gathered voting on anything was anathema to an anarchist? Gonna stay out of this thread but that's pretty funny.

I don't mind people disagreeing with what they have understood but someone guffawing over thier own ignorance winds me up. Less recons, more reading.

 

[Rob Ray]

Gonna stay out of this thread but that's pretty funny.

Uh, not really no. Anarchists vote on stuff all the time.

 

[Petcha]

I don't mind people disagreeing with what they have understood but someone guffawing over thier own ignorance winds me up. Less recons, more reading.

Sorry, slow news day. That just tickled me.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I had gathered voting on anything was anathema to an anarchist?

There's no contradiction between refusing to vote within a state system whose legitimacy you don't recognise and promoting democracy within your own movement.

 

[8ball]

Anyway, broader church orgs tend to attract loons.

Just not so many as the extremely narrow church orgs.

I think the problem with glossing over certain terms is that firstly there can be a loss of identity and secondly you run the risk of some idiot outing the local mutual aid group as "HARBORING ANARCHISTS!!!" , which could be a bit of a distraction.

 

[8ball]

Uh, not really no. Anarchists vote on stuff all the time.

Such as I'm A Celebrity...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Just not so many as the extremely narrow church orgs.

Depends how we’re defining loon. I was meaning specifically truther types rather than cult like Marxist sects (which aren’t anarchist anyways).

 

[danny la rouge]

I had gathered voting on anything was anathema to an anarchist?

You had gathered wrong.

 

[Rob Ray]

Such as I'm A Celebrity...

Hancock could not be allowed to win

 

[8ball]

Depends how we’re defining loon. I was meaning specifically truther types rather than cult like Marxist sects (which aren’t anarchist anyways).

They're everywhere. Not sure you can keep them out just by means of what's written on the tin.
Unless you name yourself something like "THE LANARKSHIRE RESOLUTELY ANARCHIST OSAMA BIN LADEN DEFINITELY DID IT MUTUAL AID GROUP AND FOOD BANK".

 

[Magnus McGinty]

They're everywhere. Not sure you can keep them out just by means of what's written on the tin.
Unless you name yourself something like "THE LANARKSHIRE RESOLUTELY ANARCHIST OSAMA BIN LADEN DEFINITELY DID IT MUTUAL AID GROUP AND FOOD BANK".

Speaking from experience which admittedly is limited they’re less attracted to the words anarchist and communist the same as others. A more broadly speaking name such as Occupy may coincide more easily with their thinking.
Sites they’re attracted to such as Natural News absolutely slate the left for example.

 

[Rob Ray]

They're everywhere. Not sure you can keep them out just by means of what's written on the tin.
Unless you name yourself something like "THE LANARKSHIRE RESOLUTELY ANARCHIST OSAMA BIN LADEN DEFINITELY DID IT MUTUAL AID GROUP AND FOOD BANK".

TLRAOBLDDIMAGAFB has unfortunately split over a disagreement about idpol. And it definitely was about idpol, not as you might have heard about Tony sleeping with Reg's ex.

 

[8ball]

Speaking from experience which admittedly is limited they’re less attracted to the words anarchist and communist the same as others. A more broadly speaking name such as Occupy may coincide more easily with their thinking.
Sites they’re attracted to such as Natural News absolutely slate the left for example.

XR has a whole bunch of them.
Using words like "anarchist" as a means of keeping people out can get a bit culty if overdone.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

XR has a whole bunch of them.
Using words like "anarchist" as a means of keeping people out can get a bit culty if overdone.

XR is another good example. Although that appears to be single issue as opposed to anarchism under a different name.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Using words like "anarchist" as a means of keeping people out can get a bit culty if overdone.

A bit like calling a golf club a sports club to attract more interest and when they get there they find they can only play golf.

 

[teuchter]

So to be clear, your strategic advice is for us to not do anarchist stuff and not call ourselves anarchists. Great stuff thanks mate, I'll file that brilliant plan right alongside the works of Sun Tzu.

Oh no, it fell in the bin, shame .

As I understand it, you're already not doing anarchist stuff, and that stuff is the best and most effective stuff. Therefore, don't call yourselves anarchists, and more people might want to join you.

What does calling yourselves anarchists achieve?

 

[8ball]

A bit like calling a golf club a sports club to attract more interest and when they get there they find they can only play golf.

More like calling a leisure centre a badminton club because you don’t want accountants turning up.

 

[Rob Ray]

As I understand it, you're already not doing anarchist stuff, and that stuff is the best and most effective stuff.

You understood wrong. We do useful things which are not labelled as anarchist, this does not mean we don't do useful stuff as anarchists as well.

Therefore, don't call yourselves anarchists, and more people might want to join you.

What does calling yourselves anarchists achieve?

I genuinely pity the mentality that produced these two sentences.

 

[8ball]

TLRAOBLDDIMAGAFB has unfortunately split over a disagreement about idpol. And it definitely was about idpol, not as you might have heard about Tony sleeping with Reg's ex.

I think if you consult the group’s constitution, sleeping with exes domiciled outside the limits of Lanarkshire is also a thumbsdownable offence, regardless of the argument over the jazzhanding of goths being an idpol faction.