And next, Syria?

[mojo pixy]

Yes: and thereby underlining Israel is a live settler-colonial project that must be dismembered. End of.

At the risk of provoking another pile-on (and I'm only responding with this because you quoted me directly for your post) Israel is not the only 'live settler-colonial project' in the world. Nor is it the largest, oldest, or most successful. It is however the only one that gets told it needs to go.

 

[Pickman's model]

At the risk of provoking another pile-on (and I'm only responding with this because you quoted me directly for your post) Israel is not the only 'live settler-colonial project' in the world. Nor is it the largest, oldest, or most successful. It is however the only one that gets told it needs to go.

It does need to go tho. And Larry O'Hara says it is A live settler-colonial project that needs to go, not that it is the only one

 

[krtek a houby]

It does need to go tho. And Larry O'Hara says it is A live settler-colonial project that needs to go, not that it is the only one

It certainly does. As do its supporters and enablers.

 

[Spymaster]

It does need to go tho. And Larry O'Hara says it is A live settler-colonial project that needs to go, not that it is the only one

But it's not going anywhere and never will, so it's behaviour is wholly unsurprising when faced with constant calls for it "dismemberment", and surroundings of nations that want to destroy it.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

At the risk of provoking another pile-on (and I'm only responding with this because you quoted me directly for your post) Israel is not the only 'live settler-colonial project' in the world. Nor is it the largest, oldest, or most successful. It is however the only one that gets told it needs to go.

An expected response: however this one is happening now in real time, and our govt/media is complicit. But yes, whataboutery is fine, go ahead if it majes you feel good.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

But it's not going anywhere and never will, so it's behaviour is wholly unsurprising when faced with constant calls for it "dismemberment".

Never say Never

 

[krtek a houby]

Never say Never

Unfortunately, the crazed Israel supporters cannot envisage change.

Any idea of reform/rebuilding/or an inclusive state is dismissed as hostile or unthinkable.

 

[Pickman's model]

But it's not going anywhere and never will, so it's behaviour is wholly unsurprising when faced with constant calls for it "dismemberment", and surroundings of nations that want to destroy it.

i don't know why or when something going nowhere became a positive thing. and it clearly is going places - why, over just the past year it's gone into gaza, lebanon and syria. the united nations security council called for it to withdraw from the various territories occupied in 1967 under resolution 242, so if the zionists wish to abide by international law - as is their frequent pious claim - they could start by retreating within their internationally recognised borders. where are the bordering nations that want to destroy israel? has lebanon said such a thing? jordan? egypt? you're long on blather once again, and much shorter on anything which approaches a justifiable claim. if there are people who wish to see the back of israel it's really down to israel's own behaviour, something that could and should be adjusted.

 

[zahir]

According to Joshua Landis Al-Sharaa is saying he'll run for president. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else. If accurate I suspect it may also involve him deciding what the powers of the president are going to be.

Ahmed Al-Sharaa (Jawlani) Says that he will run for president of Syria

Does that mean that there will be elections? Good news if yes.

 

[Spymaster]

Never say Never

Well the whole region will be vapourised if it happens.

Maybe that's the way forward. Start all over again.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well the whole region will be vapourised if it happens.

Maybe that's the way forward. Start all over again.

as in the auld anecdote about getting directions in the country, you don't want to start from here

 

[Rimbaud]

But it's not going anywhere and never will, so it's behaviour is wholly unsurprising when faced with constant calls for it "dismemberment", and surroundings of nations that want to destroy it.

I am highly critical of Israel, but I agree such language about Israel needing to go is unhelpful.

Even if you mean something more like transforming Israel into something different, a feeling of being besieged is definitely part of why Israel acts how it does.

If people mean an end to apartheid and a one state solution, or a two state solution, then they should say so instead of using language that makes Israelis think they will be driven violently out of the land.

Israel is a live settler colonial project in Gaza and West Bank. The rest of the place is already settled, we might not like how it was done but we can't and shouldn't really change it now anymore than we can undo what happened to the Australian aborigines.

At the risk of sounding like a woolly hippy, reconciliation is the only desirable way forward. The cards are all in Israeli hands, that's true, but the only hope for them doing anything is for them to be persuaded that reconciliation is possible, and giving them the impression that sympathy for Palestine is cloaking a desire to destroy Israel driven by anti-semitism makes that much harder.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am highly critical of Israel, but I agree such language about Israel needing to go is unhelpful.

Even if you mean something more like transforming Israel into something different, a feeling of being besieged is definitely part of why Israel acts how it does.

If people mean an end to apartheid and a one state solution, or a two state solution, then they should say so instead of using language that makes Israelis think they will be driven violently out of the land.

Israel is a live settler colonial project in Gaza and West Bank. The rest of the place is already settled, we might not like how it was done but we can't and shouldn't really change it now anymore than we can undo what happened to the Australian aborigines.

At the risk of sounding like a woolly hippy, reconciliation is the only desirable way forward. The cards are all in Israeli hands, that's true, but the only hope for them doing anything is for them to be persuaded that reconciliation is possible, and giving them the impression that sympathy for Palestine is cloaking a desire to destroy Israel driven by anti-semitism makes that much harder.

the sense of siege has been part of zionist culture / identity for a very long time, something this article from 1992 comments on

alt text: 'siege mentality in israel', a 1992 article from the international journal of intercultural relations with abstract:
israeli jews harbour the belief that the world has negative behavioral intentions toward them. this belief reflects their deeply emnbedded siege mentality. a long history of persecutions and hatred thoughout the world, epitomized by the holocaust, has grounded this siege mentality in the jewish tradition. in the present century, the beliefs of siege mentality, playing an important role in zionistic ideology, have become part of the israeli ethos. this article reviews several examples of siege-mentality beliefs as expressed in the israeli literature, films, education, and press by political leaders. these beliefs have an influence on israeli attitudes and behaviors, causing mistrust and negative attitudes toward the world, sensitivity to information coming from the world, pressure to conform among the israeli jews, and self-defensive acts. it is suggested that within the framework of siege-mentality beliefs and their consequence, the israeli way of managing the middle-eastern conflict can be understood.

 

[zahir]

A useful profile of Al-Sharaa/Al-Jolani, though it's a week old and may already be looking out of date.

Syria's rebels won the war – can they win the peace?

Having stormed to victory in Syria, Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, leader of the Hayat Tahrir al-Sham rebel group, now confronts a daunting task – to rebuild a shattered country and prove that his vision of justice and inclusion is more than just rhetoric.

engelsbergideas.com

 

[Spymaster]

Even if you mean something more like transforming Israel into something different, a feeling of being besieged is definitely part of why Israel acts how it does.

If people mean an end to apartheid and a one state solution, or a two state solution, then they should say so instead of using language that makes Israelis think they will be driven violently out of the land.

And it's not just the Israeli mentality that it hardens.

Many, many people around the world are on the fence when it comes to Israel/Palestine. They want to see better treatment of Palestinians but wholehearted support Israel's right to exist. It's just a tiny minority of weirdos who want to see Israel's destruction/dismemberment but unfortunately they make a lot of noise.

Talk like that simply pushes the reasonable people Israel's way and is the reason that Israel has managed to kill tens of thousands in Gaza and the WB without the rest of the world lifting a finger to stop them.

They hate hearing it (which is good) but the Western extremist left are indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians and the shame is that they continue doing exactly the same thing. They don't genuinely care about the plight of the displaced people at all. They care about their own politics.

 

[kebabking]

It's not about the achievement, it's always about the performance...

 

[Spymaster]

It's not about the achievement, it's always about the performance...

And they're not anti semitic, oh no.

Calling for the destruction of the Jewish homeland is in no way anti semitic!

 

[Pickman's model]

And it's not just the Israeli mentality that it hardens.

Many, many people around the world are on the fence when it comes to Israel/Palestine. They want to see better treatment of Palestinians but wholehearted support Israel's right to exist. It's just a tiny minority of weirdos who want to see Israel's destruction/dismemberment but unfortunately they make a lot of noise.

Talk like that simply pushes the reasonable people Israel's way and is the reason that Israel has managed to kill tens of thousands in Gaza and the WB without the rest of the world lifting a finger to stop them.

They hate hearing it (which is good) but the Western extremist left are indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians and the shame is that they continue doing exactly the same thing. They don't genuinely care about the plight of the displaced people at all. They care about their own politics.

no country, no state, has a right to exist. it's bonkers to suggest france, san marino, israel or tanzania have a right to exist. things change, empires and lesser polities strut and fret their hour upon the stage, and just as the roman empire disappeared so the zionist entity will. people who fart on about nations having a right to exist know not of what they witter

 

[kebabking]

 

[Spymaster]

no country, no state, has a right to exist. it's bonkers to suggest france, san marino, israel or tanzania have a right to exist. things change, empires and lesser polities strut and fret their hour upon the stage, and just as the roman empire disappeared so the zionist entity will. people who fart on about nations having a right to exist know not of what they witter

What a load of bollocks

 

[Pickman's model]

What a load of bollocks

if that's the best you can offer against it then i'm pretty sure i'm on solid ground.

 

[Pickman's model]

What a load of bollocks

tbh the more the zionists deny palestinians not only self-determination but the right to their existence, to their very lives, the more they undermine any arguments for the existence of their own state

 

[xenon]

Can we not make this thread another discussion about Israel pls.

 

[Gramsci]

There's a whole thread on Gaza to discuss issues around Israel / Palestine.

I've covered a lot of the issues raised in the previous posts.

I'm refraining from answering them here.

As I've covered them extensively on Gaza thread.

And it's derailing this thread.

Attacks on Syria by Israel I will post about here.

 

[Pickman's model]

Can we not make this thread another discussion about Israel pls.

 

[LDC]

Perun's analysis of the fall of Assad, half-way through, worth a watch imo. Might summarise later.

 

[Rimbaud]

Can we not make this thread another discussion about Israel pls.

Apologies, I actually didn't realise this was the Syria thread when I posted.

 

[Spymaster]

There's a whole thread on Gaza to discuss issues around Israel / Palestine.

I've covered a lot of the issues raised in the previous posts.

I'm refraining from answering them here.

As I've covered them extensively on Gaza thread.

And it's derailing this to this thread.

Attacks on Syria by Israel I will post about here.

Oh fuck off you boring cunt.

Someone posts about Israel needing to be “dismembered” is going to get a response.

 

[tim]

Yes: and thereby underlining Israel is a live settler-colonial project that must be dismembered. End of.

Who is going to do this dismembering and how? Whatever its merits, Israel is an existing and powerful political entity that is not going anywhere in the near future.

As for the settlers or in reality the descendants of the settlers where do you think they should go? Back to the lands of the camps for those of Ashkenazi or back to the obliterated or reclonised Jewish quarters of Baghdad, Damascus, Sa'na, Cairo, Alexandria, and numerous other cities across the Arab World for the Mizrahi and Sephardi?

 

[ID47]

no country, no state, has a right to exist. it's bonkers to suggest france, san marino, israel or tanzania have a right to exist. things change, empires and lesser polities strut and fret their hour upon the stage, and just as the roman empire disappeared so the zionist entity will. people who fart on about nations having a right to exist know not of what they witter

Empires and states, even the most violent, can disappear in a very short time indeed leaving virtually no trace of their existence. 400 years of the Dutch East Indies has left what, just a very few loan words in the Indonesian language such as 'Bioskop' for 'Cinema'. Japanese presence in Taiwan and Korea gone without a trace. Both occupied, killed and exploited on a genocidal scale. Nothing suggests that the fate of the entity will be different and 'vaporising' millions as mentioned above certainly won't change that.