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And next, Syria?

this is incoherent. "We want the war to draw to a close..." what does this even mean? Draw to a close? You mean you want everyone to lay down arms and accept the survival of the Assad regime. The barrel bomber. All that other war against Assad is the bad war, we need that to stop, and if Assad and his allies/supporters/foreign overlords need to exercise even more violence against their enemies in order to end "the war" in general, well, that's good, 'cos it ends "the war". Russian action has indeed shown results: it's crippled the opposition in the North West.

P.S. 70% Assad supporters? Where in the world did you get this obscene figure? Even with half the country in exile, there's no way the level of support among those who remain is 70%.

"Draw to a close? You mean you want everyone to lay down arms and accept the survival of the Assad regime": What do you want then, for the war to rage on even though Assads position at the head of the Syrian government shows no sign of being undermined by the military efforts that have been deployed against him, even though he has the support among Syrias multi-ethnic/multi-sectarian populace necessary to have survived as president thus far, even though the Syrian state has not collapsed, even though the principal that foreign powers should decide when the leadership of the government of a state should be changed regardless of what the people of that state have to say about it is imperialistic bollocks? This is the kind of creed jihadists and crusaders adhere to, as if it's some sort of holy war, a divine struggle against the forces of darkness, no matter how many must die the war must continue... "your sacrifice shall be revered through time memorial o people of Syria, verily thy shall be made martyrs upon the shining path of light that leads from this vale of tears to a seat at the right hand of god!" I find that kind of talk disgusting to be honest. Interesting how you make it sound shameful, "lay down their arms and accept the survival of the Assad regime", or as daesh types would say "lay down their arms and live in the lands of the kuffar, accepting the ungodly practices of homosexuality and women who imagine themselves the equal of men and those who follow the religion of the infidel???".

How about the use of reason, let's leave aside the "glorious path of light that will bear its heroes on blazing chariots to their place in heaven", how about the term "peace talks", in which compromise must be made on both sides, political reforms set in motion, processes for truth and reconciliation engaged in; sure it's ugly and difficult and bitter but that's what peace processes always require. Washingtons Hegemony and the petro-monarchs and neo-Ottomons have had their go, turns out that one good kick did not cause the whole rotten edifice to come tumbling down... get over it and face the opportunity to begin the process of peace making, forget about the "pure land of milk and honey that awaits the devout beyond the mountain of bones" and settle for the boring old valley of compromise and rebuilding and politics, where those Syrians who don't like Assad vote against him in the next internationally observed presidential elections and normal people get to live their lives and attend protest rallies and wave banners about the issues they don't like in a manner that doesn't invite foreign armies and mercs and fanatics.

And the trigger term "barrel bombs" that we see as a clear theme in the Western media, I wonder why terms like "explosives", "military aircraft", "kinetic force" haven't been bestowed with the same emotional symbolism, I suppose the media-masters know what they're doing, who am I to question their methods... seems arbitrary to me though but what do I know about the construction of loaded terms for the purpose of moulding public opinion... perhaps if Assad bought daisy-cutters from the Americans instead of being a cheap-skate it wouldn't work, but then if Assad was a client of the Americans he probably wouldn't be in this position in the first place. Bahrain and Saudi Fucking Arabia get by ok, nobody makes a big deal out of what the bombs are called that the Saudis drop on the people of Yemen after all. Is it bad if civilians are targeted in the war? Yes of course it is, but it's like a pile of bodies of people who have been shot leading to the term "gun" becoming a thing, or "Kalashnikov", "Assad the Kalashnikover", maybe I'm giving the relevant parties ideas actually, "Kalashnikov" has rhythm too plus it's a Russian name so extra points there.

I mean "biological weapons", "chemical weapons", "depleted uranium", "nukes" I could understand... the gifts that keep giving long after the war/regime-change campaign is over with poisoned environments and mutated gene-pools, but it is amazing how just the words for the thing itself- "barrel bomb" has become what it is, even overshadowing the accusation that it's used to target civilians, as in "bombs dropped on a crowd of civilians"... fair enough, blatantly evil... versus just by itself "barrel bomb"... as if in a vacuum just the term is evil enough, "barrel bombs dropped on a jihadi stronghold"- still as evil as "bombs dropped on a crowd of civilians" because it contains the term "barrel bomb". Language as a strategic asset in a way, not for the technical particulars of the weapon itself; what it consists of or anything so boring as radiological or toxic hazard, or how it works (I mean it blows people the fuck up just like any other bomb) or what it's targeted at in any particular case, but just the term itself... the spelling of it, "B A R R E L B O M B!" maybe with a hyphen is the proper way "BARREL-BOMB", perhaps you're not supposed to capitalize it all- "Barrel-Bomb"... maybe it's because of two "r"s and three "b"s... the way it looks on the page sort of thing. A media-studies person could probably write an interesting paper really. Anyway, it's fascinating is all I'm saying. Barrel-bomb, barrel bomb, barrel bomb!
 
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The US and its allies/arse kissers use special magic precision weapons that magically only kill the bad guys. Whereas Assad and those horrible Russians use nasty imprecise bombs or, worst of all, barrel bombs that just kill everyone. And they torture children. And did I mention they drown puppies and kittens as well?
 
just like the american client mubarak in egypt you mean?

Point, I mean- Assad did torture for them. I guess that wasn't enough. The Americans are untrustworthy and ruthless, nonetheless I wouldn't like to see their people go through what the Syrians and others have because the political class is composed of arrogant cynical blood-spattered dicks. They get to go on living their lives even as Killary Clinton hoves into view as the next president.
 
The US and its allies/arse kissers use special magic precision weapons that magically only kill the bad guys. Whereas Assad and those horrible Russians use nasty imprecise bombs or, worst of all, barrel bombs that just kill everyone. And they torture children. And did I mention they drown puppies and kittens as well?
You forgot to mention that the latter have deliberately targeted medical personnel and facilities also.
 
Yes, exactly only more so.

e2a Actually to be clear I think the Americans 'believed' that there were Taliban elements in the hospital; still inexcusable but the Russians and the regime, particularly the latter have had a policy of targeting personnel and facilities to degrade the social structure in an area to the point where things can no longer function in any normal sense.
 
forget about the "pure land of milk and honey that awaits the devout beyond the mountain of bones" and settle for the boring old valley of compromise and rebuilding and politics, where those Syrians who don't like Assad vote against him in the next internationally observed presidential elections and normal people get to live their lives and attend protest rallies and wave banners about the issues they don't like in a manner that doesn't invite foreign armies and mercs and fanatics.

like in 2011? that worked out well didn't it. the rest of your post is just frothy bollocks.
 
More speculation but this time by Western diplomats rather than me, still it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

Vladimir Putin 'is willing to ditch Assad to end the five-year conflict'

Yeah, from the same sources that never even knew they were drawing down till it was announced on the news yesterday . And had no clue about the intervention until it happened . and aren't these the same informed sources who've been predicting the imminent overthrow of the Syrian president for 5 years running now. :D
And during those 5 years predicting his his imminent ditching by both Iran and Russia..and even sometimes his own military ...at regular intervals . Only to be confronted by their military intervention. That quagmire they predicted would bring Putin to his knees etc.

Yet more wishful thinking on their part and yours . Comical at this point .
 
Good article here on what the Russian withdrawal of excess forces means in military , political and diplomatic terms.

Moscow informed Washington, Damascus and Tehran of its intention to reduce forces in Syria

Was interesting the way Obama slagged-off Cameron the other day wasn't it, in combination with recent events in Syria the future's not looking so bright for "Libyarization" as a method going forward. Well, unless a Killary PotUS tries the same thing again... with any luck European leaders, beset by refugees and smarting from Obamas everyone-elses-faultism might not be so keen next time. Unless something like a big scary African Dinar menaces the French frank in Africa again... perhaps it's down to who's already spunked their load in terms of political capital in whatever the matter is in future, pipelines or whatever.
 
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Good sober analysis of the military situation beyond daft victory claims from hassan hassan:

Russia’s Exit from Syria Highlights Assad’s Limitations

So far, the regime forces have captured a fraction of those areas they lost over the year prior to Russian intervention. (According to the British defense think-tank IHS Jane’s, the regime lost 16 percent of its territory in that period). But the Russian military has enabled the regime to end the trend of swift defeats. From September to February, the Russian air forces concentrated airstrikes in three fronts to secure the regime, namely Hama’s northern countryside, along a line from northern Latakia to Aleppo, and from southern Aleppo toward Raqqa. The effort substantially weakened the rebels near Latakia and isolated them in northern Aleppo. Recent military gains made by anti-government forces were typically lost within a few hours, such as Jabhat al-Nusra’s March 8 assaults in southern Aleppo.

A Closer Look

While the regime’s military position is improved, it is imperative not to lose sight of the constraints on the ground that make it hard for the regime to even retake the territory it lost last year. Russia’s air support to the regime has indeed substantially propped up the SAA and bolstered its ability to launch offensives and repulse attacks, but that does not necessarily mean the government is capable of winning the war. The SAA continues to suffer from the same challenges that forced it to lose around two-thirds of the country and to rely on foreign and local paramilitary forces—foreign and local—to defend and secure the remaining third. To understand the army’s constraints, consider a battle near Damascus that took place just after the Russians intervened in Syria. While attention has been focused on how the Russian air campaign played out in northern Syria, that battle was the earliest example of how the campaign helped the Assad government push back against rebel forces.
 
At this point allegedly "left wing" Assad / Putin cheerleaders are among the most repulsive people on earth.

It's beyond repulsive, frankly. I mean here we have lofty posts about how wonderful it is that Putin, purely out of the goodness of his own heart and for the sake of humanity you understand, has stepped in and made the way forward clear again and now people can get out on to the streets and protest and wave banners and all happily participate in free and fair elections.

Never mind the fact that's exactly what they were doing in 2011 and calling for in 2011, nevermind the fact the reasons they came out onto the streets was to demand freedom from a tyrannical and despotic family dynasty that has a ruthless secret police, nevermind that same tyrannical and despotic family regime tortured, raped and murdered it's own subjects for daring to ask for freedom, nevermind those same people claiming how wonderful it will be to have free and fair elections against Assad have memories so short that they have completely forgotten they claimed the elections in 2014 were free and fair and that Syria's people apparently supported Assad in droves. All that doesn't matter because Assad was only defending himself and Putin was only helping. Now it's all ok and politics can happen again. Yeah, beyond repulsive.
 
It's beyond repulsive, frankly. I mean here we have lofty posts about how wonderful it is that Putin, purely out of the goodness of his own heart and for the sake of humanity you understand, has stepped in and made the way forward clear again and now people can get out on to the streets and protest and wave banners and all happily participate in free and fair elections.

Never mind the fact that's exactly what they were doing in 2011 and calling for in 2011, nevermind the fact the reasons they came out onto the streets was to demand freedom from a tyrannical and despotic family dynasty that has a ruthless secret police, nevermind that same tyrannical and despotic family regime tortured, raped and murdered it's own subjects for daring to ask for freedom, nevermind those same people claiming how wonderful it will be to have free and fair elections against Assad have memories so short that they have completely forgotten they claimed the elections in 2014 were free and fair and that Syria's people apparently supported Assad in droves. All that doesn't matter because Assad was only defending himself and Putin was only helping. Now it's all ok and politics can happen again. Yeah, beyond repulsive.
I attended a talk a couple days ago by a Dr.Omar Dahi from Damascus who would agree with you. I asked him during the Q&A if he thought there could ever be a peace settlement with Assad in power. Without hesitation, he said no. Also said the revolution started out with peaceful protests & it was the regime that turned it violent. And he was critical of intervention by US allies, Turkey & the Gulf states.
The first part of this series focuses on the experience and expertise of Dr. Omar Dahi, visiting fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Middle East Center and associate professor of economics at Hampshire College. Dr. Dahi will provide insight into how Syrians are processing their country’s transformation and a framework for a peaceful future.
Portland & Oregon Events | Entertainment, Music, More - OregonLive.com
 
At this point allegedly "left wing" Assad / Putin cheerleaders are among the most repulsive people on earth.
Just a second ago someone posted up a video on Facebook of some of the devastation in Syria. The first comment was "Just remember Russia didn't do this." Just fuck off.
 
I attended a talk a couple days ago by a Dr.Omar Dahi from Damascus who would agree with you. I asked him during the Q&A if he thought there could ever be a peace settlement with Assad in power. Without hesitation, he said no. Also said the revolution started out with peaceful protests & it was the regime that turned it violent. And he was critical of intervention by US allies, Turkey & the Gulf states.

Portland & Oregon Events | Entertainment, Music, More - OregonLive.com

There is zero chance of peace if Assad is left in power. This whole mess has been billed by many as yet another US intervention and regime change project, it's all cooked up by the US apparently. It completely ignores any historical context of Syria itself and, worse, it completely strips Syrian people of their agency and instead paints them as just dupes in America's imperial game or, worse still, all as Islamic extremists who are equally fair game for destruction as ISIS are. All of this is of course Putin/Assad propaganda which has been gleefully eaten up by these cheerleaders.

US power bills everything the US does as good and for democracy and freedom and everything everyone else does is aggression. All these cheerleaders have done is the exact same thing but on behalf of Russian power instead. There's no difference at all in the two positions other than what state the cheerleader's in favour of.
 
There is zero chance of peace if Assad is left in power. This whole mess has been billed by many as yet another US intervention and regime change project, it's all cooked up by the US apparently. It completely ignores any historical context of Syria itself and, worse, it completely strips Syrian people of their agency and instead paints them as just dupes in America's imperial game or, worse still, all as Islamic extremists who are equally fair game for destruction as ISIS are. All of this is of course Putin/Assad propaganda which has been gleefully eaten up by these cheerleaders.

US power bills everything the US does as good and for democracy and freedom and everything everyone else does is aggression. All these cheerleaders have done is the exact same thing but on behalf of Russian power instead. There's no difference at all in the two positions other than what state the cheerleader's in favour of.

Oh get off... ceacefire, election process, driving out daesh... you're against these? And if Assad is so universally hated in Syria then there should be no danger of him winning an internationally observed election should there.

So what. The fuck. Is your problem fella? Is it because you are some sort of fanatic? This is you: "Assad is the prince of darkness, only blood and fire can purify the land, talking and elections are a sign of weakness and corruption. Glory to god!" *waves AK about*
 
Oh get off... ceacefire, election process, driving out daesh...

There would have been no need for a ceasefire if ya man hadn't, in 2011, fired on protesters calling for an election process that you so covet. No Daesh either if ya man hadn't released an assortment of nutters from prison to discredit his opoosition, discrediting you readily swallowed.

you're against these?

:rolleyes:

And if Assad is so universally hated in Syria then there should be no danger of him winning an internationally observed election should there.

Didn't we already have one in 2014 that you so laughably declared as free and fair? Why the need for another one so soon? He's so massively supported by his people lounging around in refufgee camps and trekking half away across continents to escape him.

So what. The fuck. Is your problem fella? Is it because you are some sort of fanatic? This is you: "Assad is the prince of darkness, only blood and fire can purify the land, talking and elections are a sign of weakness and corruption. Glory to god!" *waves AK about*

Stuff n nonsense. Anyway you gave yourself away in post #5392
 
There would have been no need for a ceasefire if ya man hadn't, in 2011, fired on protesters calling for an election process that you so covet. No Daesh either if ya man hadn't released an assortment of nutters from prison to discredit his opoosition, discrediting you readily swallowed.



:rolleyes:



Didn't we already have one in 2014 that you so laughably declared as free and fair? Why the need for another one so soon? He's so massively supported by his people lounging around in refufgee camps and trekking half away across continents to escape him.

The narrative that Syrian government opened fire on protesters in 2011 isn't the whole story though is it, no doubt it's the nice neat narrative we've been told by the Western media though obvs, the same media that claimed Assad had used chemical weapons against civilians only for us to discover two years later that it was Turkish backed forces flinging the mustard and home-made sarin about. Don't you think it's time to start taking what those shifty-eyed fucks have muttered in the past with a pinch of salt?

The refugees are fleeing from the war you seem to be so in love with. Assad isn't my boy, he's belongs to the Syrians relying on his government to keep the jihadis and Libyaration chaos from their door. UN monitored elections are on the table in Geneva, that's why I say "internationally observed elections" as if the 2014 ones didn't happen, it is of vital importance that any elections going forward are fully observed so that even the likes of you can't dismiss their legitimacy. And why would you be so afraid of Assad being part of UN monitored elections? Don't want lousy stinking democracy messing up your preferences I guess.

I agree though, this "divine mission" type mentality you and the like-swarm of which you are a part really is stuff and nonesense isn't it, lot's of fixed-eyed fanaticism that castes the Syrians themselves as just props in your heroic absolutist Manichean mission. Not you having to actually live in Damascus or somewhere is it, why should your ears perk up at the word "ceasefire" or "peace process" or for those Damascans that don't like Assad, the idea of getting him out with UN monitored elections instead of mortars and nutters everywhere, surfed in via Turkey on waves of Saudi money.
 
The narrative that Syrian government opened fire on protesters in 2011 isn't the whole story though is it, no doubt it's the nice neat narrative we've been told by the Western media though obvs, the same media that claimed Assad had used chemical weapons against civilians only for us to discover two years later that it was Turkish backed forces flinging the mustard and home-made sarin about. Don't you think it's time to start taking what those shifty-eyed fucks have muttered in the past with a pinch of salt.

If you can be bothered to trawl back through this thread you will discover that a lot of sources are from Twitter and from Syrian people who were actually there. The possible Turkish involvement in the gas attacks as expounded by Seymour Hersh remains unproven.
 
The narrative that Syrian government opened fire on protesters in 2011 isn't the whole story though is it, no doubt it's the nice neat narrative we've been told by the Western media though obvs, the same media that claimed Assad had used chemical weapons against civilians only for us to discover two years later that it was Turkish backed forces flinging the mustard and home-made sarin about. Don't you think it's time to start taking what those shifty-eyed fucks have muttered in the past with a pinch of salt

Why are you obsessed with 'the western media' and assume everyone who disagrees with you gets their information from there? You endlessly regurgitate RT press releases so why is your source impeccible and western media, a source hardly used on here, the lord of all wrong?

The refugees are fleeing from the war you seem to be so in love with. Assad isn't my boy, he's belongs to the Syrians relying on his government to keep the jihadis and Libyaration chaos from their door. UN monitored elections are on the table in Geneva, that's why I say "internationally observed elections" as if the 2014 ones didn't happen, it is of vital importance that any elections going forward are fully observed so that even the likes of you can't dismiss their legitimacy. And why would you be so afraid of Assad being part of UN monitored elections? Don't want lousy stinking democracy messing up your preferences I guess.

Again, what gives you the idea I love it? or I'm afraid of anything in this? The idea that Syria can be a peaceful nation with Assad at the helm is just laughable nonsense. If the Syrian people actually choose that through actual free and fair elections then so be it but some how I doubt it. Assad's a murdering cunt who should be in the dock at the Hague as should Blair, Bush, Bibi, Obama and on and on I could go. Trouble with you is you think Assad is just a poor innocent fellow defending his country and it's sickening, it really is, your support for him repulses me but because of that you automatically think I think the west and it's leaders are all wonderful. This isn't sixth form, pal. It's real life, there's nuance and it's something you appear to struggle with.

I agree though, this "divine mission" type mentality you and the like-swarm of which you are a part really is stuff and nonesense isn't it, lot's of fixed-eyed fanaticism that castes the Syrians themselves as just props in your heroic absolutist Manichean mission. Not you having to actually live in Damascus or somewhere is it, why should your ears perk up at the word "ceasefire" or "peace process" or for those Damascans that don't like Assad, the idea of getting him out with UN monitored elections instead of mortars and nutters everywhere, surfed in via Turkey on waves of Saudi money.

Again, wtf are you talking about 'divine mission' bollocks? I literally have no idea wtf you're banging on about?
 
cheerily unconcerned with what you think, if anything your repulsion is a complement.
Seems that you're rather cheerily unconcerned with any of the facts around this issue frankly. Which makes your weepy i just want the killing to end/of course i support barrel bombing civilians and torturing children stance even even more psychopathic.
 
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