And next, Syria?

[Casually Red]

Massively bigger picture, far more so than some on here would have you beleive. Warm water port they repeat like a mantra. Perhaps it's time some people grasped that the Russian leadership identifies is interests as more than a port and a few money grubbing Moscow gangster stereotypes about blinged-up Dachas. International law and a kind of new Westphaliaism is profoundlý in Russian greater national interest.

The port they harp on about is little more than a rusty running repair facility that had a few mechanics in it . Another one could be very easily rented from cash strapped, russian freindly cyprus for a lot less hassle. Or indeed secured through regime change by cutting a deal to shaft the Ba'ath. One thing it most definitely isn't is an empire . Or even a springboard for one . A project neither the Russian military or it's body politic is even remotely geared towards. Such talk is utterly laughable . Clearly these twits get their insights on Russian politics and national interests from the BBC and Guardian . And are as clueless as they're intended to be .

 

[Casually Red]

No, you are not only doing that.

Correct . I'm also complaining about the lack of answers being forthcoming. A complete lack , tbf.

 

[butchersapron]

Excellent, he imagines imperialism means something like the roman empire, a simple physical imperial occupation - not the projection of power and interests on a wide field against the interests of others. that on top of the liberal national-sovereignty stuff earlier is fantastic.

 

[Flavour]

empire ... A project neither the Russian military or it's body politic is even remotely geared towards.

No of course not. That's not at all what Russia is interested in... if you choose to define Empire as the annexation and occupation of territory which is internationally recognized as belonging to other sovereign states.

Oh, wait, hold on...

 

[butchersapron]

**

 

[Casually Red]

No of course not. That's not at all what Russia is interested in... if you choose to define Empire as the annexation and occupation of territory which is internationally recognized as belonging to other sovereign states.

Oh, wait, hold on...

I'm still waiting on you..and anyone else..to tell me what this Russian empire in the middle east actually comprises of though . Because even in 2012 it was 4 mechanics on a single pier too small to accommodate most Russian warships .
What is it theyre actually interested in ? What's the plan ? The bigger picture ?

You guys are remarkably coy about this bit .

 

[Knotted]

Bassam Haddad on Russian intentions in Syria

Russia’s decision is also not simply a calculated move to avoid a complete tipping of the balance in favor of the “opposition,” even if this is part of the rationale. Such a concern could have been served in a far less risky manner by taking defensive positions along the coastal lines and elsewhere, thereby justifying retaliation to potential attackers. The main purpose of the Russian plan was not, or is not, simply to preserve the regime’s existing territorial control, and I argue, nor is it to regain lost territory—though this may well be one of the results with the aid of other forces, including Iranian ones, on the ground. Rather, this is likely to be an attempt to establish a Russian moment, however premature and rushed, deliberated by a president that is eager to restore, aggrandize, and/or be heard loud and clear in a slowly emerging kind of world where the global economic- and power-pie seems to be less and less dominated by a single power and, ironically, more and more democratically distributed. The Russian objective is to test the waters a bit using a particular rationale that has some legitimacy worldwide: fighting ISIS.

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting read if genuine (and ignoring any jokes about the choice of title):

Confessions of an ISIS Spy

I knew from our digital parlays that, if he were telling the truth, he had extraordinary, granular information about the way ISIS operates: who is really in charge, how they come and go, what divisions there are in the ranks of the fighters and the population. Abu Khaled saw firsthand, he said, what amounted to the colonial arrogance of Iraqi and other foreign elites in the ISIS leadership occupying large swathes of his Syrian homeland. He was in a position to explain the banality of the bureaucracy in a would-be state, and the extraordinary savagery of the multiple security services ISIS has created to watch the people, and to watch each other. He could also tell me why so many remain beholden to a totalitarian cult which, far from shrinking from its atrocities and acts of ultra-violence, glories in them.

 

[camouflage]

Explain to me how the survival of the current government benefits Russia in any major way ?

The united states supported various regimes across Latin America because the USA sought to physically, politically, economically and militarily dominate that entire hemisphere . If you're arguing Russia is seeking to similarly dominate the middle east you are a complete clown . It's force there is tiny , very small, and it's primary impact is in political terms, not military .
The overwhelming bulk of the opposition the Syrian government faces is not internal but external and externally manufactured . Remove foreign jihadists and the support of foreign governments from the equation and it would be over in a matter of months...if not weeks . No Russian support would be necessary at all .

We're on earth is the basis for your belief that Russia seeks to build an empire in the middle east ? Where does this laughable rubbish originate from ? Therussian military is not even remotely geared towards that kind of power projection that would be necessary for such a project and absolutely nobody in Russia has even the remotest interest in it . It's beyond laughable . Where do you get this nonsense from ?

I blame Hollywood. And a lot probably comes down to engliish spoken with a heavy accent. Russia is not setup to be an empire beyond the high water mark of the Sovjet Union... which they chose to give up as the costs to Russian society were not sustainable. Politically, economically, geopoliticaly and culturally the place can't be moved in an imperialist direction, the centre wouldn't hold... the balance would be tipped to centrifugal forces. And besides, what would Russia gain from all this when it is already Russia... land and natural resources wise, none of the above adds up to an imperialist imperative.

The UK and the US both being massively naval powers and heavily invested in long reach power projection and business finance systems totally geared to pulling from and pushing to markets all over the place and an expanded english speaking world built up from generations of surplus population and foreign colonization and conquest (as opposed to fleeing into the great hinterland to get out from beneath the boot of the Czar for a couple more generations)...

Forget the rambling on, tl:dr... Russia is a very different beast to the West, not more noble or anything like that, just different and with different imperatives and a ruling class with fingers in different sorts of pie (made in Russia pie) , different concerns. Safe stable borders being a big concern. Judging it as if it is the West is as silly as thinking Japan and China can be thrown in as basically the same and with an identical attitude to South East Asia or something because chopsticks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What a complete cock

Frankly, Cameron's uttering of such a phrase is an act of "self-defence" on Cameron's part - he's putting it "on record" that he sees the act as one of so-called "national self-defence" and hence quasi-justifiable under existing "rules of war".

 

[Pickman's model]

Frankly, Cameron's uttering of such a phrase is an act of "self-defence" on Cameron's part - he's putting it "on record" that he sees the act as one of so-called "national self-defence" and hence quasi-justifiable under existing "rules of war".

in that case they're entirely entitled to bomb and shoot us, under what will no doubt become known as the cameron doctrine.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The port they harp on about is little more than a rusty running repair facility that had a few mechanics in it . Another one could be very easily rented from cash strapped, russian freindly cyprus for a lot less hassle. Or indeed secured through regime change by cutting a deal to shaft the Ba'ath. One thing it most definitely isn't is an empire . Or even a springboard for one . A project neither the Russian military or it's body politic is even remotely geared towards. Such talk is utterly laughable . Clearly these twits get their insights on Russian politics and national interests from the BBC and Guardian . And are as clueless as they're intended to be .

Cyprus doesn't really have any sufficiently-"deep water" coast that could be developed into a port suitable for any significant Russian seapower. Tartus itself can't - currently - host any either, but it is sufficiently deep water, and it's developable given the right relationship between Russia and whoever rules Syria. If Russia decided they wanted a deep water Med base, Tartus is the only proposition that would make economic and tactical sense, unless Putin buys Sicily or Sardinia.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Excellent, he imagines imperialism means something like the roman empire, a simple physical imperial occupation - not the projection of power and interests on a wide field against the interests of others. that on top of the liberal national-sovereignty stuff earlier is fantastic.

Fantastic in the original meaning of the word, too.

 

[ViolentPanda]

in that case they're entirely entitled to bomb and shoot us, under what will no doubt become known as the cameron doctrine.

Well, quite. That Pig-prodder doesn't "get" that is yet another display of his Blair-like failure to appreciate the obvious.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, quite. That Pig-prodder doesn't "get" that is yet another display of his Blair-like failure to appreciate the obvious.

all that money his parents spent on his education, all the thousands of pounds oxford got from the state for his fees - all fucking wasted.

 

[seventh bullet]

I blame Hollywood. And a lot probably comes down to engliish spoken with a heavy accent. Russia is not setup to be an empire beyond the high water mark of the Sovjet Union... which they chose to give up as the costs to Russian society were not sustainable. Politically, economically, geopoliticaly and culturally the place can't be moved in an imperialist direction, the centre wouldn't hold... the balance would be tipped to centrifugal forces. And besides, what would Russia gain from all this when it is already Russia... land and natural resources wise, none of the above adds up to an imperialist imperative.

The UK and the US both being massively naval powers and heavily invested in long reach power projection and business finance systems totally geared to pulling from and pushing to markets all over the place and an expanded english speaking world built up from generations of surplus population and foreign colonization and conquest (as opposed to fleeing into the great hinterland to get out from beneath the boot of the Czar for a couple more generations)...

Forget the rambling on, tl:dr... Russia is a very different beast to the West, not more noble or anything like that, just different and with different imperatives and a ruling class with fingers in different sorts of pie (made in Russia pie) , different concerns. Safe stable borders being a big concern. Judging it as if it is the West is as silly as thinking Japan and China can be thrown in as basically the same and with an identical attitude to South East Asia or something because chopsticks.

Eh? The Russia you speak of is an imperial construction, built on the much earlier theft and violence of eastern and southern expansion.

 

[camouflage]

Eh? The Russia you speak of is an imperial construction, built on the much earlier theft and violence of eastern and southern expansion.

Thus far but further? Do you think Reagan kicked Russias ass and 'defeated the Sovjet Union'?

 

[seventh bullet]

Huh?

 

[camouflage]

Huh?

Never mind, you may go.

 

[seventh bullet]

I blame Hollywood.

 

[butchersapron]

Specifically, Star Wars.

 

[bimble]

Someone has compiled around a hundred clips of the 'Forgotten Revolution' - the civil movements to overthrow Assad in 2011, before he sectarianised and militarised it.

This one in Latakia was under the banner of "No to sectarianism, yes to freedom"

Where are these people now?

 

[butchersapron]

Where are these people now?

Dead, dying in assad's torture cells, refugees, with the FSA or turned into a form of islamist.

 

[bimble]

 

[butchersapron]

If this is true, so much for the nothing has changed this was always russia's position posters:

Putin told Assad to go or be made to go, Israeli officials say

Russian President Vladimir Putin has told his embattled Syrian counterpart Bashar Assad to either leave office and make room for a transitional government or be forced out, Israeli officials say.

Putin delivered his ultimatum at a meeting between the two in Moscow on October 20, and comes as Russia joins other world powers in setting a timetable for a new Syrian government after nearly five years of civil war.

Senior Israeli officials told The Times of Israel that Assad received a markedly chilly reception in Moscow, his first trip abroad since the insurgency broke out in February 2011, tearing Syria apart, killing more than 200,000 people and turning millions into refugees.

Plenty of space for bordeline disguised anti-semitism from those axis of resistance posters though (casually red/camouflage/sirena) - not so borderline in many examples of their posting actually.

 

[camouflage]

If this is true, so much for the nothing has changed this was always russia's position posters:

Putin told Assad to go or be made to go, Israeli officials say



Plenty of space for bordeline disguised anti-semitism from those axis of resistance posters though (casually red/camouflage/sirena) - not so borderline in many examples of their posting actually.

Calling me antisemitic now are you? Fuck right off man, don't try an taint me with your racism.

 

[butchersapron]

Calling me antisemitic now are you? Fuck right off man, don't try an taint me with your racism.

You've repeatedly approvingly and without apology linked to anti-semitic filth over the last few years. I sometime wonder how you're still here. And then i remember no one bothers to actually read what you post anymore. Or very few of us.

 

[camouflage]

You've repeatedly approvingly and without apology linked to anti-semitic filth over the last few years. I sometime wonder how you're still here. And then i remember no one bothers to actually read what you post anymore. Or very few of us.

No, you've found antsemetic filth in links I've posted, a subtle difference but an important one, as by that measure urban75 itself would fail as a den of nasty antisemitic bollocks. Anyway no harm done, I don't usually bother to read what you and your sect post either. More waffle I usually assume.

 

[butchersapron]

Now, you've found antsemetic filth in links I've posted, a subtle difference but an important one, as by that measure urban75 itself would fail as a den of nasty antisemitic bollocks. Anyway no harm done, I don't usually bother to read what you and your sect post either. More waffle I usually assume.

Links you post that come from anti-semitic filth sites are anti-semitic filth. Like jazzz at the end - drowning in it.

How do you imagine everyone else manages not to post links from anti-semitic sites so consistently?

 

[teqniq]

There's a sect here? Where?