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And next, Syria?

Just horrendous. I feel so angry and so bad for those people in the video, they have been utterly abandoned by the rest of the world. Those poor kids. :(
 
Your day will come Bashar the Lion.

mussolini-hanging.jpg
 
Seems to be ton of general outrage but not by the "right" or " left" of the world. Nobody is willing to try to take this guy down. Time for him to be brought down with help from outside govs......UN isn't doing shit. But exactly how these outside forces would do it.....I don't know.
 
Given the use of heavy weaponry, the Houla massacre looks to have been carried out by government forces. Whether that means the army or the shabiha remains to be seen (I also wouldn't rule out the Free Syrian Army just yet). It also remains to be seen whether sectarian or anti-regime conclusions will be drawn from the opposition. But in any case the situation in Syria looks more dire by the week from both a human rights angle and from a political angle.
 
Horrible stuff.

I've found it almost impossible to know where to start with talking about Syria, Libya was hard enough but this is even worse, too many issues and divisions. This article draws attention to some of the dimensions that make this such a mess:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18227556

Too many different areas touched upon for me to summarise with a brief quote, but check this bit out since it says something rather obvious yet not often said about what happened in Yemen:
US diplomats are now hoping that Moscow might be persuaded to ease Assad out, but keep the regime - and Russian interests - in place.
This is a scheme modelled on the way in which the US and Saudi Arabia coaxed President Ali Abdullah Saleh from office in Yemen earlier this year.
This is unlikely to work. The regime is highly personalistic, and would probably unravel quickly without Assad and his core advisors.
The rebellion is also at an advanced stage, and will not acquiesce in a squalid compromise that might even leave the perpetrators of this massacre in charge of the security forces.
Click to expand...
 
@ Mr. Bishie Russia considers Syria to be an 'ally' inasmuch as a) they have a naval base there and b) they sell them a lot of arms. There are probably other reasons but those are the two main ones I reckon.
 
Would i be wrong to think that Iran's involvement, 'could' be a precursor to the UK backing Israel & the US in an attack on Iran?

What a fucking mess :(

Ta teqniq.
 
Mr.Bishie said:
Would i be wrong to think that Iran's involvement, 'could' be a precursor to the UK backing Israel & the US in an attack on Iran?

What a fucking mess :(

Ta teqniq.
Click to expand...

Not wrong to consider it. Wrong to assume its very likely based on where we are with either Syria or Iran at this point. Review in future if things escalate.
 
Mr.Bishie said:
What is Russia's stance?
Click to expand...

Syria is post-USSR Russia's last major geo-strategic asset in the region? It's not the same Soviet-era prerogatives at play though, it's wider than that now. Russian company Stroytransgaz (pipeline building) and Tatarstan-based oil company Tatneft (Tatarstan is a republic in southern Russia) also have contracts there.
 
Uncensored footage of the stuff the BBC's been showing from al-Qabair today... harrowing stuff, be warned

 
The more I find out about the individuals who make up the Syrian National Council the more it looks like a CIA front. They even had one of them at the Bilderberg conference
 
What I cannot understand is what benefit does it bring to the Assad side to massacre children? Maybe I have spent too much time watching/reading Russia Today but I find the whole scenario implausible and stinking of propaganda. Killing children is what the villain does, right from the days of the Mau Mau supposedly bayonetting babies. The point has repeatedly been made that these massacres both occurred just before some major UN initiative and they play into the media hands of those (Hillary Clinton, William Hague etc) who seek regime change. If it is the Syrian opposition who is arranging these killings (and I believe it may be), then they are cynical beyond belief.
 
Grim. There is no shortage of propaganda flying around, but that doesn't actually help us work out the truth. Its one of the reasons I've never been very active on this thread. Libya was bad enough and since the Syrian regime is one of the few regimes in the area that the west would actually want to be destroyed by the arab spring (as opposed to quite a few they were desperate to help survive), I needed good sources to be able to kid myself that I had much of a feel for what was happening.

For the sake of Syrians I would rather it came to a head sooner rather than later, get the outcome over with whatever that may be, but this doesn't sound terribly likely at the moment.
 
Too right, elbows. It's a nightmare trying to work out what's going on. Few reporters on the ground and shameless propaganda being pumped out by all sides. It's so easy to read in what you want to see. Who is responsible for these massacres? Who is being killed and for what purpose? Also, why is the media repeating unsubstantiated stories about Iranian Republican guards in Syria?

We hear so much from the worst section of the Syrian opposition - the Muslim Brotherhood dominated Syrian National Council and the various (often sectarian) militias informally grouped under the rubric "Syrian Free Army" and so little from the Local Coordinating Committees and the National Committee for Democratic Change - the latter publish next to nothing in English. It's hard not to either just hoover up the propaganda or just reject it all as pro-Nato/pro-GCC lies.
 
Given my inability to determine much about the realities on the ground, beyond the fact that people are dying, for now I'll just have to study some of the external propaganda.

I'll start with this twat who I presume is a neo-con. For him Syria is all about Iran, and he gives a good demonstration of how easily those who routinely dish out fears about islamists seizing power, terrorists etc, can dismiss such fears when they have their eyes on a bigger prize.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302053/battle-syria-clifford-d-may#

Check this bit out. As well as being a fine example of several kinds of bullshit, fans of Chomsky will likely note how easy this one is to decode into a list of 'what matters to the US in the region, strategy etc'. Actually it barely requires any decoding at all.

​
In addition, Iran’s rulers have long been the leading global sponsors of terrorism, commanding Hezbollah, now masters of Lebanon, and collaborating with al-Qaeda. They have facilitated the killings of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan with impunity.​
​
Their acquisition of nuclear arms, if it is allowed to happen, will license even more audacious behavior. Plan on this: They will threaten and perhaps lay claim to Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, and Bahrain (where the U.S. Fifth Fleet is based); bend the flexible Qataris to their will; attempt to control the Strait of Hormuz, essential to a global economy that continues to depend on Gulf oil; intervene more forcefully than ever in Yemen; increase their influence in Iraq and Afghanistan; conspire against the Saudis (chiding them for their irresolute commitment to jihad while coveting the oil in Arabia’s majority-Shiite Eastern Province); and, of course, hang a nuclear Sword of Damocles over Israel’s head.​
​
All that would be just the beginning. Remember that without nuclear weapons, Iran’s rulers did not hesitate to attempt to blow up a restaurant in Washington, D.C. With nuclear weapons . . . Use your imagination.​
​
Click to expand...
​
Reading that you may be forgiven for forgetting that he is supposed to be talking about Syria.
 
I'll start with this twat who I presume is a neo-con. For him Syria is all about Iran, and he gives a good demonstration of how easily those who routinely dish out fears about islamists seizing power, terrorists etc, can dismiss such fears when they have their eyes on a bigger prize.
Click to expand...

Clifford D May appears to be a member of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, a think-tank (sic) packed full of neo-cons, including such warmongering luminaries as Richard Perle, James Woolsey, William Kristol etc...
 
Twat is too kind.

I came across this guy on Twitter, seems to be unbiased (at present)

Austin_Tice (Austin Tice)​
Bio:​
#USMC infantry vet, Georgetown Law student, freelance #photojournalist . The first casualty of war is truth.​
​
 
elbows said:
and he gives a good demonstration of how easily those who routinely dish out fears about islamists seizing power, terrorists etc, can dismiss such fears when they have their eyes on a bigger prize.
Click to expand...

I find this just mind blowing. They'll be rabbiting on about how Hamas are a threat to Jews throughout the entire world one minute and then promoting a similar bunch in Syria next door to Israel the next. The sheer cynicism of these people.

That's also extraordinary bullshit. Hezbollah are no more mere tools of Iran than Israel is of the US and they are not masters of Lebanon. I love this. "Masters" of Lebanon (are they masters of the universe perhaps?). They don't govern Lebanon but they are masters of Lebanon. I think I'll say it again. Masters of Lebanon. Fantastic.

Here's another one from a few months ago:
The Israeli newspaper Haaretz quoted Syrian sources saying Suleimani was, in effect, acting as chief regime adviser and strategist.
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/08/assad-syria-iran-middle-east

The "in effect chief regime adviser and strategist". Isn't it great? Btw the Haaretz article says nothing of the kind.
 
I see that I completely missed the Guardian publishing a load of Assad & wifes emails that the opposition had somehow managed to obtain some months back. Much of it is trivial, such as his choice of iTunes music, but there are some more interesting nuggets here and there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/assad-emails
 
Hmmm would like to hear what posters here think is the best course of action for the international community rather than speculate about possible CIA involvement of the opposition.

Not saying this isn't the case just as there is probably FSB involvement on the side of the government and probably elsewhere.
 
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