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And next, Syria?

Regarding false flag, yes. Although it does make me scratch my chin somewhat at the ease with which we can believe in false flags when certain states are involved, when such concepts are considered a bonkers no-no when they happen elsewhere. This quote from that guardian page, quoting the Arab Digest, rather underscores my point.

The fact that the regime quickly accused al-Qaida and had a team of media people quickly reporting and analysing this, will draw more suspicions regarding its possible involvement.

Please resist the temptation to overstate the point Im trying to make here, as Im not saying that most other AlQ attacks are false flags, Im simply interested in the varying degree of believability regarding this sort of thing, especially as Iraq suffered multiple bombings just the other day.
 
No, I think that's a fair point.

The thing is that the idea that Syria's Air Force Intelligence Directorate is engaging in a car bombing false flag operation is considerably more believable than the idea that the CIA flew two planes into a skyscraper. It's a question of verisimilitude.
 
Don't get me wrong, I count myself as someone who finds it much easier to believe this Syria bombing was a false flag than most other attacks, although I can be pretty cynical about car & suicide bombings in general. I'd like to keep the 9/11 attacks out of this discussion because of the insane amount of discussion such things have already had over the years, the dramatic nature of the attacks, the staggering consequences, the high levels of emotion involved, and the wackiness of the alternative theories.

Russia is another interesting case, I think we find it easier to believe they may have occasionally indulged in false flag stuff, even the BBC found it easy to bring up the 'FSA caught planting explosives in buildings' once of twice on newsnight. This shouldn't be too surprising really, even when we know that the west has its own reasons for painting certain states as well dodgy bogeymen who know no bounds, we often have similar concerns ourselves which we feel may reflect an underlying reality rather than being part of a propaganda battle.
 
Syria is also easier to draw conclusions about because we have the idea that there are not many different powerful forces at work in that country, therefore when something happens with deeply suspicious timing there are few to point the finger at other than the state. Whereas the recent Iraq attacks, where the timing of which was also rather suss, things are far less clear because it tends to seem like there are quite a large number of different forces with deadly capabilities at work in that country.
 
Also the protestors/resistance have never used bombs before, why would they now? And especially against civillians, people who they would have no wish to alienate.
 
Also the protestors/resistance have never used bombs before, why would they now? And especially against civillians, people who they would have no wish to alienate.

Well indeed, thats one of the reasons its easy to believe this is false flag. Although I do have to say that some bombs have been used against the state forces elsewhere in the country, I remember a video from some weeks back that showed security vehicles being blown up on a road. Totally different scale though.
 
I can well believe it is AlQ whose main aim seems to be to cause as much death and destruction in the region as possible. Didn't they bomb a kindergarten in Iraq the other day?
 
....I remember a video from some weeks back that showed security vehicles being blown up on a road. Totally different scale though.

Ta for that I didn't know. I still think the the whole thing is dodge as fuck. Bombing troops is one thing.... Legit target etc.
 
Yeah. Unfortunately I've not been paying as much attention to events in Syria as I should, in most part due to a lack of great quality information, inability to get a sense of the views of the masses, etc. Even Libya was not this hard to learn about.
 
Post 293 on this thread has the vehicle exploding video, from a month ago.

I never looked at that before, that's a full-on battle situation.

some speculation from:

iyad_elbaghdadi
About #Syria bombing RT @tawa3na: same strategy of #Algeria n the 90's infiltrate the armed groups to do civilian massacre to get support

also state TV according to him is coming out with some serious drivel:

Aldunya TV: "The world is jealous of us for having this great virtuous & resisting President!" #Syria

Aldunya TV says that "Arabs will come crawling on camels" to apologize to #Syria. Never mind that you can't crawl on a camel.
 
Reality check (or at the very least, informed perspective)? from Angry Arab:

Friday, December 23, 2011
Was Gene Sharp an explosives' expert? On the two car bombs in Damascus
The trend was going in that direction. Elements in the Syrian opposition were openly calling for NATO military intervention and the Turkish-run Fee Syrian Army have been targeting soldiers and government buildings as well. Remember that Ikhwan revolt in the 1970s and 1980s was violent as well: just as the regime has been violent from day one: ever since Hafidh Al-Asad took over power. But the insistence by Western media that this is some non-violent protest movement in Syria is produced by the propaganda agencies of Saudi/Qatari/US governments. Now I have called and will call for the overthrow of the Syrian regime, but the notion (by the anti-regime propagandists in the Ikhwan and their liberal affiliates in the Syrian National Council and peddled by Nada Bakri in the New York Times or in Saudi/Qatari/Hariri media) that every bullet in Syria and every bomb has to be blamed on the regime is what it is: propaganda. I mean, you have an army for the opposition (the Free Syrian Army) operating and taking responsibility for bombings and shelling, and you have the Nada Barkri and other voices of the Syrian National Council in the anti-regime media insisting that this is a non-violent movement. I mean, for how long will this continue? After how many car bombs directed at regime symbols of power, will this claim be held in the Western press. But Kareem Fahim of the New York Times found evidence today that the car bombs AGAINST GOVERNMENT's centers of power is the work of government itself: "Just as quickly, government opponents questioned the government’s claims, noting that the buildings, in the capital’s upscale Kafar Sousah district, were heavily guarded. “How can Qaeda launch such an operation in a very tight security place?” said an antigovernment activist named Moaz, who lives in Damascus. “It’s really a play.”" I mean, most Arabs and certainly most Iraqis blame car bombs in Iraq on the US. Yet, the New York Times would never ever dare cite those people who believe in such conspiracy theory. But all is possible and all is permitted in propaganda against Syria and Iran. If Bashshar Al-Asad is assassinated, Nada Bakri or Kareem Fahim would find an "activist" or "opponent of the regime" to say that Bashshar killed himself to save the regime or to get sympathy for the regime. The tone of the New York Times is getting sectarian by the day: its article yesterday had a clear anti-`Alawite tone when the regime is still being served (in the political and economic and military and intelligence sectors) by `Alawites and non-`Alawites alike, just as there are those in Iraq who want us to forget that Saddam's regime had many Shi`ites in senior position (and Christians as well). Innocent Syrians have been killed by the regime and now innocent Syrians are being killed by anti-regime forces supported by Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, US, and Israel. Just as in Libya: civilians in Libya were killed primarily by the regime but also by NATO and its fanatical militias on the ground. Remember that when Israel and the Phalanges were using car bombs in Beirut back in the 1970s and 1980s, they also blamed their enemies for car bombs that they have been placing. One final note on why those car bombs will only increase: of all the opposition movements in the Arab world, the Syrian Muslim Brothers and their religious nuts affiliates are the closest ideological allies of Al-Qa`diah and they share together a doctrine of anti-Shi`ite fanaticism. Not a single mention was made in the press about the Youtube statement by a senior Syrian opposition figure (who is quoted widely in the Western and Saudi press), Ma'mun Humsi, when he threatened all `Alawites in Syria with extermination. The show in Syria is turning uglier and more grotesque and I detest the actions and violence of both sides (although regime bears more responsibility) and wish for a progressive movement to emerge and lead the uprising against the regime in a different direction (i.e. not according to the dictates of Qatar and Saudi Arabia).

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/12/was-gene-sharp-explosives-expert-on-two.html
 
Heh, well that's another perspective.

I should have put a question mark in (which I have now) as I really don't know what to believe, but going on past form the regime is not a good bet.

Just read that again. Absolute waste of time. Why did you even quote that?

There's a lot to read and absolutely no reason to read that, let alone quote it.
 
The idea that the regime would bomb their own security directorate is absurd. They're hardly likely to want to make themselves look vulnerable to a bombing campaign - they want to look like they are in control of the situation. The situation in Syria is now very complex with various forces (mainly the regime) pushing for a sectarian conflict and various outside interests looking to see how they can carve up the aftermath. It could easily be Al Qaeda or the Ikwhan or a rogue element from the FSA - it might even have unofficial SNC and/or Arab League blessing.

The point is that non of this should detract from the heroic struggle to overthrow the Ba'ath regime. Shit happens and you've got to take it on the chin.
 
Trust me, I've been there.

The idea that the regime might expend a few citizens to retrench their position is eminently believable.
 
Just read that again. Absolute waste of time. Why did you even quote that?

The idea that the regime might expend a few citizens to retrench their position is eminently believable.

I thought it was interesting, and as I say a different perspective (the blogger does after all claim to be Arabic). That is all. Though I see from your last post that you've been there so you're certainly likely to have a more nuanced view than me.

Unfortunately I'm inclined to agree with your last statement. :(

edited as wrong quote re: 'last statement'
 
Impossible to say IMO whether it's false flag or not - seems highly convenient given visit of Arab League though. The bigger picture is even scarier - from a number of pieces on Al Jazeera and other news sources saying that there is a growing merging between the Sunni/Shia conflict in Iraq and that in Syria - with arms and volunteers flowing from the Sunnis in Iraq to their co-religionists in Syria. Is a much broader cross border Middle East conflict building up here ... Given the strong ties Iran has to the Syrian Alawite regime, and of course the multiple direction conflict links in the Lebanon too ? All a bit 1914 ish in that region methinks. Better to keep the car filled up with petrol or deisel while the oilfields are intact !
 
The head of the anti-regime forces has been making some very loud noises about future operations.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/head-syria-rebels-plans-escalate-attacks-130028816.html?

"If we feel they (the monitors) are still not serious in a few days, or at most within a week, we will take a decision which will surprise the regime and the whole world," the head of the Free Syrian Army (FSA), Colonel Riad al-Asaad, told Reuters.

"What is most likely now is that we will start a huge escalation of our operations," Asaad said.
He said it would not be an outright declaration of war, but "it will be a transformative shift in terms of the fighting and we hope the Syrian people will stand behind it".

Despite Asaad saying the FSA had ordered a temporary halt on attacks, at least nine state soldiers have been killed in three attacks, underscoring scepticism that army officers steering the FSA from Turkey are in full control.
Asaad said those operations had all been in self defence.
 
A Russian Ship Just Delivered 35 Tons Of Arms To Syria

A Russian ship containing a cargo of arms from the country's state arms dealer arrived in Syria today, despite previously saying it would change its destination as it sailed into the Mediterranean.

RIA Novosti reports that the vessel docked in the Syrian port of Tartus. It was allegedly carrying 35 to 60 tons of ammunition and explosives. Russia has a naval presence in Syrian waters, its only one in the Mediterranean, that dates back to the Soviet-era.

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-syria-arms-2012-1
 
Does anything know about the sybmolism of the stars in the Syrian flag?

225px-Flag_of_Syria.svg.png


The old Iraqi Bathasist flag had three stars which stood for unity, freedom and socialism but these mean something else.

Old Iraqi flag:

320px-Flag_of_Iraq_%281963-1991%29.svg.png
 
It's not going to win now it's too late for that. It could silence the protesters and is not beginning to be military defeated
 
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