American teenager stabs himself to death in front of an open mic audience

[Dr Jon]

Maybe he was trying to lead by example?

"Top yerself - you know it makes sense" "If I can do it, so can you", etc.

 

[Idris2002]

While I would agree that everyone has the right to self-direction. I'd disagree with the idea that we don't "belong" to other people in a moral sense. There's a whole host of people who have sweat equity in you -- your parents, your kids, etc. If you ask most people "who are you?" They usually respond with a description of their relationship to others.

See? Even the rugged individualist gets it.

 

[twentythreedom]

"Selfishness" assumes a level of rational empathy which is most often lacking in those contemplating taking their own life at the time.

Judging the actions of mental illness by mentally healthy standards doesn't work.

Yeah, quite right. One can't begin to imagine the mental state of someone intent on suicide.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

See? Even the rugged individualist gets it.

LOL.

I can't decide if I should be pleased or insulted.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I read somewhere, dunno where, that males are far more likely to "sign off" with a statement, whereas females are more likely to commit suicide in private. It's not about fucking other people up, I don't think, it's more one last desperate "I am somebody".

Well, especially when you do it at open mike night at the 'Strictly Organic Coffee Shop'

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm going to hang myself alongside all my dakimakura

It would take a lot of rope to string up that many pillows.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

It would take a lot of rope to string up that many pillows.

i would find it tricky to find someone to look after them all

so i would try taking it all with me

 

[Pickman's model]

"On November 25, 1970, Mishima and four members of the Tatenokai, under pretext, visited the commandant of the Ichigaya Camp — the Tokyo headquarters of the Eastern Command of Japan's Self-Defense Forces.[9] Inside, they barricaded the office and tied the commandant to his chair. With a prepared manifesto and banner listing their demands, Mishima stepped onto the balcony to address the soldiers gathered below."


[URL="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/MishimaCoupSpeech.jpg"[/URL]
Bit like taking over Sandhurst over here

I think it takes someone who has left all interest in its true impact on others out of their thoughts

yeh like those buddhist monks in vietnam

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[8ball]

What a load of shit.

No, Kid_Eternity's point is entirely valid

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

No, Kid_Eternity's point is entirely valid

... if you're a sociopath.

 

[Idris2002]

No, Kid_Eternity's point is entirely valid

Valid? It's the arrested adolescent wibblings of someone who should have grown out of that sort of thing years ago (unless Kid_Eternity actually is an adolescent, in which case I withdraw this post).

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

ohhh playing the i'm far more mature than you card

very devious

 

[Idris2002]

very devious

I paint my face black and travel by night. You don't know what's hit you until it's too late.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

ohhh playing the i'm far more mature than you card

very devious

"I'm the center of the universe" is a child's way of looking at the world. I do think as you get older, you realise how much you are connected to other people and how much you've benefitted from their care. People get squatters rights to your life by caring for you and are well within their rights to expect you not to waste it. Otherwise, why bother?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

people do not have the right to control other people no matter how much they care about them

families do not have the right for example to pick or chose your job or your partner no matter how much they think your own choice might ruin your life. they do not have the right to prevent you for participating in dangerous activities say like joining the army or becoming a bomb disposal expert

suicide is not quite the same but the underlying concept that a person has the right to chose the way they live and die is not changed

you may not like it when some one you car about decides to to take up demolition derby or joins a guerilla fighting force or commits suicide but the idea that someone else has the right to control someone else's life is a much more disturbing one

just my take on it you may feel different but i would hesitate before throwing around terms like immature just because someone's thoughts are different

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

also i'm not saying that all suicide is the right choice if a person is temporally imbalanced then of course other people should step in but it's bad to make automatic choices

i mean would you say euthanasia is selfish? certainly it might be the view of the people around the person in question that what they are doing is wrong or even selfish but does that remove that persons right to choose?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

people do not have the right to control other people no matter how much they care about them

There are a number of instances in the law where they do. A parent has an obligation to care for a minor child, which they can't fullfill if they commit suicide. While I'm generally in favor of self-determination, it's immoral to rob a child of a parent. When you choose to engage in relationship you choose to encur duties to them and they to you.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

i would have thought that anyone who is committed to ending their life has gone past the point of being able to fulfil the role of being a parent.

 

[8ball]

People get squatters rights to your life by caring for you and are well within their rights to expect you not to waste it. Otherwise, why bother?

Wow.

Outstandingly weird.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

i would have thought that anyone who is committed to ending their life has gone past the point of being able to fulfil the role of being a parent.

That doesn't make them disposable. We've certainly turned into a bunch of social darwinists, haven't we?

I know that the concept of mutual "duties" and "obligations" is considered outdated, but its a pretty cold world without someone to count on.

 

[8ball]

That doesn't make them disposable. We've certainly turned into a bunch of social darwinists, haven't we?

I know that the concept of mutual "duties" and "obligations" is considered outdated, but its a pretty cold world without someone to count on.

I think you've got a bit confused by some of the points people are making. The fact that you care about someone doesn't in itself give you any dibs on how they live their life. That's a pretty uncontroversial moral tenet in most circles, Josef Fritzl excepting.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I think you've got a bit confused by some of the points people are making. The fact that you care about someone doesn't in itself give you any dibs on how they live their life. That's a pretty uncontroversial moral tenet in most circles, Josef Fritzl excepting.

Josef Fritzl

As I've already stated, its well established in law that you have duties to others when you choose to create a child or marry. You cannot fullfill your chosen obligations if you off yourself. I'm not advocating telling people who they may marry or if they can or cannot have children. Merely, that you incur moral and legal obligations when you choose do so. Actions have consequences.

 

[8ball]

Josef Fritzl

As I've already stated, its well established in law that you have duties to others when you choose to create a child or marry. You cannot fullfill your chosen obligations if you off yourself. I'm not advocating telling people who they may marry or if they can or cannot have children. Merely, that you incur moral and legal obligations when you choose do so. Actions have consequences.

I agree with all of that. What I don't agree with is that you have obligations to others my merely existing. I think you're reading a lot into some of the things that are being said.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I agree with all of that. What I don't agree with is that you have obligations to others my merely existing. I think you're reading a lot into some of the things that are being said.

I think you do. If you survived your first six months of life, you owe someone a debt. I'm not saying that gives them the right to control everything you do, but offing yourself is disrespectful of them. Its rude.

 

[southside]

I've seen two people kill themselves at two different places I worked at and both times it left me pretty traumatised. I did not know them personally but why they chose to affect nuetral coleagues is beyond me.

They both jumped inside the buildings and the mess it made was really horrible and made me feel a bit mental for a few weeks afterwards.

It takes total desperation to do that and I can't help but wonder what kind of torture can lead a person to do that? It's very sad.

 

[8ball]

I think you do. If you survived your first six months of life, you owe someone a debt.

No you don't. You don't owe them anything. You are not an 'investment'. This is basic moral philosophy type stuff. I appreciate that when it comes to talking about suicide things get very emotive as well as a lot greyer, but arguments based on being 'owned' by others are pretty creepy.

There are duties, which are only meaningful when they are consensual, then there are things that are essentially 'gift' relationships, like love.

If you love someone you do not own them.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

No you don't. You don't owe them anything. You are not an 'investment'. This is basic moral philosophy type stuff. I appreciate that when it comes to talking about suicide things get very emotive as well as a lot greyer, but arguments based on being 'owned' by others are pretty creepy.

There are duties, which are only meaningful when they are consensual, then there are things that are essentially 'gift' relationships, like love.

If you love someone you do not own them.

It's rude to throw a gift back in the face of the giver. Didn't anyone teach you any manners?

Which moral philosophy do you subscribe to? There are many of them to choose from and not all of them say the same thing.

I realize that all of that "respecting your elders" is outdated nonsense. We'd be much better off in the western world if we thought less of ourselves and more about others. Maybe we'd have less suicide if we did.

 

[8ball]

We'd be much better off in the western world if we thought less of ourselves and more about others. Maybe we'd have less suicide if we did.

You think people kill themselves due to an overabundance of self-esteem now?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You think people kill themselves due to an overabundance of self-esteem now?

No, I think if people felt more cared for by others they'd be less likely to kill themselves. If you don't think anyone has your back, killing yourself starts to look like a good option.