the death of alexei navalny 16.2.24

[The39thStep]

can anyone find a quote on his thoughts on ukraine?

Lengthy article by a Ukrainian site on that very issue.

Alexei Navalny and Ukraine: how the Russian “opposition” leader’s team sees the end of the war • Ukraїner

www.ukrainer.net

Shorthand version from article :
2104 period :
“Crimea will remain a part of Russia and will not become Ukrainian again in the foreseeable future.”

In response to whether he would return Crimea to Ukraine if he became President of Russia, Navalny replied with his infamous words: “Is Crimea like a sandwich with sausage that you can just pass back and forth?”

Navalny’s answers create a certain cognitive dissonance:
– Crimea is not Ukrainian.
– It is Russian.
– The only problem here is a violation of internationally recognised borders

Before even getting to the topic of Crimea, the so-called opposition leader calls Ukrainians “khokhols”

2017 Presidential campaign: Navalny’s team has also periodically posted maps of Ukraine without Crimea on Twitter and YouTube, legitimising Russia’s occupation of the peninsula. For example, in his regular column on Navalny LIVE, Vladimir Milov used a map of Ukraine without Crimea when discussing Ukrainian nuclear power plants. He tried to defend himself against criticism by explaining that it was a “schema,” not a map, and therefore not geographically accurate. Ukrainians also recall Navalny’s team using a map that showed Crimea as part of Russia in his 2017 presidential campaign, as if doing so was a requirement of Russian law that Navalny’s supporters could not ignore.


2022 onwards period :
Against the war.
After Russia began its full-scale invasion, Navalny’s associates stated they would work primarily on the “informational front” as opposed to the political field. They cover the details of Navalny’s imprisonment and advocate for his release, only sometimes reporting on Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Throughout almost a year of the full-scale invasion, representatives of Navalny’s team (including Navalny himself) published 2,577 tweets regarding Russia’s exit strategy from the war. However, this topic represents only about 10% of the team’s total tweets over the selected period.

 

[ska invita]

His being an irredentist and an Islamophobe

he was an islamaphobic dentist all right

 

[Raheem]

Before even getting to the topic of Crimea, the so-called opposition leader calls Ukrainians “khokhols”

 

[Isambard]

That's gonna be where the West is probably going to have to compromise the next time they look for a stooge. Someone who will let perhaps let western capital run riot in Russia, but keep hold of Crimea, Sevastopol in particular.

 

[tim]

That's gonna be where the West is probably going to have to compromise the next time they look for a stooge. Someone who will let perhaps let western capital run riot in Russia, but keep hold of Crimea, Sevastopol in particular.

Where exactly is this monolithic West of your conspiracy theory, and who runs it?

 

[ska invita]

Where exactly is this monolithic West of your conspiracy theory, and who runs it?

an ideology runs it

 

[ska invita]

That's gonna be where the West is probably going to have to compromise the next time they look for a stooge. Someone who will let perhaps let western capital run riot in Russia, but keep hold of Crimea, Sevastopol in particular.

not sure anyone has much choice about Russia keeping any of the (broadly) old Novorossiya territory for the forseeable

 

[PTK]

an ideology runs it

Members of the ruling classed will act in their own interests without having to "plot".

 

[rubbershoes]

The American right can be nuttier than a squirrel's breakfast indeed, but almost getting to the point here of realising how much bullshit elections in "Western Democracy" can be.

I'm sure you're not equating western democracy, which certainly has deficiencies with the completely corrupt and murderous Russian political system

 

[weltweit]

I saw somewhere that his mother had attempted to collect his body from the local morgue.
So far she hasn't succeeded.

 

[tim]

I'm sure you're not equating western democracy, which certainly has deficiencies with the completely corrupt and murderous Russian political system

The British State managed to operate murderously in Northern Ireland, despite in being classed as part of the United Kingdom, for decades, and in officially foreign places British troops were murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan until very recently.

 

[Isambard]

I'm sure you're not equating western democracy, which certainly has deficiencies with the completely corrupt and murderous Russian political system

Plague on both their houses to be honest.

I'd like to vote in the UK in the next general election for a slate opposing continuation of the horrible wars in Ukraine and Palestine and domestically greater focus on the welfare and well being of the working population.

That's not on the ballot paper.

One can criticise Russia without having to simp for the West's fake democracy.

 

[rubbershoes]

Plague on both their houses to be honest.

I'd like to vote in the UK in the next general election for a slate opposing continuation of the horrible wars in Ukraine and Palestine and domestically greater focus on the welfare and well being of the working population.

That's not on the ballot paper.

One can criticise Russia without having to simp for the West's fake democracy.

Well, at least you're willing to criticise Russia. Plenty of people seem unable to do that

 

[MickiQ]

I saw somewhere that his mother had attempted to collect his body from the local morgue.
So far she hasn't succeeded.

They'll probably announce that it has been 'accidentally' cremated in the next couple of days without anyone realising it.

 

[Isambard]

not sure anyone has much choice about Russia keeping any of the (broadly) old Novorossiya territory for the forseeable

I suspect Russia has a clear list of territorial priorities from non-negtioables to nice-to-haves. Navalny, despite being an enemy of Putin, was on the same page on that.

Kyiv, from statements I have read over the last couple of years, seems to fantastically believe it is going to win everything back, somehow.

The West as it often does with its imperial adventures, has gone gung-ho into this without thinking about an exit plan, long term vision or long term costs.

 

[ska invita]

The West as it often does with its imperial adventures, has gone gung-ho into this without thinking about an exit plan, long term vision or long term costs.

sounds like Boris Johnson was a big part of the gun-ho bit
but as to exit plans it looks incredible likely that the new border in Ukraine is the one declared by Russia and thats the exit strategy bit taken care of, NATO will prop up the border from the Ukrainian side, war is basically concluded but for the ongoing fighting

 

[Isambard]

sounds like Boris Johnson was a big part of the gun-ho bit
but as to exit plans it looks incredible likely that the new border in Ukraine is the one declared by Russia and thats the exit strategy bit taken care of, NATO will prop up the border from the Ukrainian side, war is basically concluded but for the ongoing fighting

Despite the blustering and pearl clutching over Navalny's death (not to discount the individual human tragedy) it may well be that the fall of Adiivka it conveniently coincided with could be the beginning of the end.

Russia might well wish to take Odessa, throw bits of Ukraine to Romania, Hungary and Poland and keep Kyiv as a festering city-state. But keeping the front line as the new frontier might well be as far as they are really prepared to go.

 

[Pickman's model]

I suspect Russia has a clear list of territorial priorities from non-negtioables to nice-to-haves. Navalny, despite being an enemy of Putin, was on the same page on that.

Kyiv, from statements I have read over the last couple of years, seems to fantastically believe it is going to win everything back, somehow.

The West as it often does with its imperial adventures, has gone gung-ho into this without thinking about an exit plan, long term vision or long term costs.

I always like hearing this gung ho bit, descending as it does from the Chinese communists via the usmc - 'work together'.

 

[Aladdin]

I saw somewhere that his mother had attempted to collect his body from the local morgue.
So far she hasn't succeeded.

Read on French news that they went to the Morgue they were told his body had been sent and were told the body never arrived from the prison.

 

[Isambard]

I always like hearing this gung ho bit, descending as it does from the Chinese communists via the usmc - 'work together'.

I see NBC are now claiming the term is racist and shouldn't be used.....

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

 

[Yossarian]

I always like hearing this gung ho bit, descending as it does from the Chinese communists via the usmc - 'work together'.

Never knew it came from the USMC - apparently they started using it when a Marine who had spent time with the Red Army misinterpreted the abbreviation for "industrial cooperative"

Carlson told Life, "I was trying to build up the same sort of working spirit I had seen in China where all the soldiers dedicated themselves to one idea and worked together to put that idea over. I told the boys about it again and again, I told them of the motto of the Chinese Cooperatives, Gung Ho. It means Work Together — Work in Harmony." (Again, it did not.)

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/10/18/406693323/the-long-strange-journey-of-gung-ho

 

[weltweit]

Read on French news that they went to the Morgue they were told his body had been sent and were told the body never arrived from the prison.

Yep, if his body is not passed to his family the conspiracy will certainly deepen.
What are they hiding?

 

[Elpenor]

Perhaps they’re embalming it ahead of moving it to the mausoleum with Lenin

 

[planetgeli]

What are they hiding?

You know what I think? I think Putin had him killed.

Of course, 'sudden death syndrome' has a whole new meaning in Russia...

 

[The39thStep]

Perhaps they’re embalming it ahead of moving it to the mausoleum with Lenin

It'll end up in the Guardian editorial office

 

[Isambard]

As an average grieving Russian you don't have the means to organise, fund and get permission for a huge lit up display opposite the Russian embassy when a relative sadly dies in suspicious circumstances in prison.

Whatever the personal tragedy, whatever the cause of death and who killed Navalny, this is being wrung out in the West as much as possible. In the NATO-Russia war over Ukraine, propaganda is key, particuarly for NATO's war effort.

Reminds me of when UK political parties drive those trucks around central London with slogans on. It's not genuine campaigning; it's elite top-down funded and organised propaganda to be fed into the telescreen

 

[Mezzer]

As an average grieving Russian you don't have the means to organise, fund and get permission for a huge lit up display opposite the Russian embassy when a relative sadly dies in suspicious circumstances in prison.

Whatever the personal tragedy, whatever the cause of death and who killed Navalny, this is being wrung out in the West as much as possible. In the NATO-Russia war over Ukraine, propaganda is key, particuarly for NATO's war effort.

Reminds me of when UK political parties drive those trucks around central London with slogans on. It's not genuine campaigning; it's elite top-down funded and organised propaganda to be fed into the telescreen

You might be right, but at the end of the day it's only speculation.

 

[Yossarian]

Yep, if his body is not passed to his family the conspiracy will certainly deepen.
What are they hiding?

Might be more an effort to drive home the message than a conspiracy - 'If you challenge the regime, we'll spend a few years killing you with harsh conditions in the gulag, then we'll make your family beg for weeks to get your body'

 

[tim]

As an average grieving Russian you don't have the means to organise, fund and get permission for a huge lit up display opposite the Russian embassy when a relative sadly dies in suspicious circumstances in prison.

Whatever the personal tragedy, whatever the cause of death and who killed Navalny, this is being wrung out in the West as much as possible. In the NATO-Russia war over Ukraine, propaganda is key, particuarly for NATO's war effort.

Reminds me of when UK political parties drive those trucks around central London with slogans on. It's not genuine campaigning; it's elite top-down funded and organised propaganda to be fed into the telescreen

It doesn't cost much these days to obtain a projector that can smother a building with an image at night, particularly one that is conveniently encased in white stucco. As to challenge of organising, there are thousands of Russians in London many of whom oppose the current regime. It doesn't take much effort to go out and demonstrate. I know, I've done it loads of times. I don't suppose the British government is unsympathetic, but there is no need for them to do anything.

As to Navalny, he was murdered by the state in the same way that Mohammed Morsi was murdered by the Egyptian dictatorship. If you put someone in prison and create conditions which make it impossible for them to stay alive you murder them. I don't understand why you feel the need to be so equivocal about this. with all your wishy-washy personal tragedy shite.