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Amanda Knox Is Innocent

And your knowledge of the Italian legal system, Italy, Italians or indeed the Italian language is exactly what welshie?
I suspect that most countries' legal systems look weird and wrong to people from other countries with different systems. I can well imagine that the US/UK adversarial system looks bonkers to people with inquisitorial systems. And I know of no legal system anywhere that doesn't produce injustice on occasion. It is the nature of legal systems that they ultimately fall short of their stated intent - to satisfactorily codify and quantify morality, standards of proof and justice.
 
some of it fits, some of it doesn't. some of it doesn't.
Guede changed his story several times.

I think, most tellingly, the bits about his relationship w/ Meredith.
iirc, he denied his sexual interest in her in any official statements or questioning.
 
some of it fits, some of it doesn't. some of it doesn't.
Guede changed his story several times.

I think, most tellingly, the bits about his relationship w/ Meredith.
iirc, he denied his sexual interest in her in any official statements or questioning.


thered be good reason for an innocent african to do that though.
 
tbh, I don't see much racism in this case. it actually seems to me the opposite of what usually happens, where a black suspect is immediately considered guilty, and convicted on much less evidence than a white middle class person would ever be.
Here they have come up with all kinds of far fetched reasons why it wasn't, or wasn't just the black guy.
I still think there's a huge amount of prejudice/ profiling, not limited to but definitely including European/British fears and stereotypes of Americans from cinema/ media/sensationalism.
 
In fairness I dont see the reasons as far fetched when it comes to actual evidence. The missing mop, the bloody footprints, the deliberate attempt to stitch up another African
 
why lie so completely about your alibi ? why remove a mop on the very night someones been murdered in your home ?
that directly points to an attempt to decieve and conceal. And therefore guilt.

I actually used to think she was innocent but ive changed my mind completely after I read that stuff .
 
tbh, I don't see much racism in this case. it actually seems to me the opposite of what usually happens, where a black suspect is immediately considered guilty, and convicted on much less evidence than a white middle class person would ever be.
Here they have come up with all kinds of far fetched reasons why it wasn't, or wasn't just the black guy.
I still think there's a huge amount of prejudice/ profiling, not limited to but definitely including European/British fears and stereotypes of Americans from cinema/ media/sensationalism.

and thats precisely why Guede would deny any sexual interest in her even if innocent. Even if the cops werent racist.
 
Judging by that Skype conversation Guede's account seems more convincing than the other two's!
I've not even followed the press reporting in any great detail, so I've no idea where this transcript ties in with all the other bits, contested or otherwise. Same time, that does sound pretty 'natural', with no evasion going on. Also, what he said about oral sex would presumably explain having his dna inside her, but not sperm.
 
Judging by that Skype conversation Guede's account seems more convincing than the other two's!

How's that then? He introduces another mystery killer, of whom the police can find no trace. And in any case, his involvement isn't disputed--the question is whether he acted alone.
 
Yeah reading further on that wiki (ok it's a wiki but still) there's just lots of things that make you think eh? I mean for example why the fuck say 'we slept until 10:30' when records show someone, presumably Rafael, was pissing about on his pc at 6:30 am trying to play an mp3 file that crashed VLC player twice, they then tried it in itunes, it worked and played for half an hour. There's just no way you'd forget that, even after smoking a bit of weed several hours before. The only way you could possibly forget that is if you were smashed out your head on booze and they weren't.
 
I've not even followed the press reporting in any great detail, so I've no idea where this transcript ties in with all the other bits, contested or otherwise. Same time, that does sound pretty 'natural', with no evasion going on. Also, what he said about oral sex would presumably explain having his dna inside her, but not sperm.

Yeah I haven't followed it in great detail either. It does seem pretty natural and non evasive and I thought the same thing about the DNA. Still non the wiser though but I'm certainly starting to see how there's been a case to answer.
 
And your knowledge of the Italian legal system, Italy, Italians or indeed the Italian language is exactly what welshie?

Some of us "welshies" have actually been to Italy you know. Some of us are even quite clever and read books. I know that's a difficult concept for Englishmen to grasp.
 
and thats precisely why Guede would deny any sexual interest in her even if innocent. Even if the cops werent racist.

I think you're not understanding my point. It's not really interesting or unusual that he denied it, it's interesting that he talked about it with his friend. And that it very well could be true, which leads to any number of motives common to sex related homicides.
 
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funny, was there ever an investigation into Guede's past as far as how he treated women/ past sexual partners? That is normally what would happen in a non-witch hunt /farce type trial. hmm.
 
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In fairness I dont see the reasons as far fetched when it comes to actual evidence. The missing mop, the bloody footprints, the deliberate attempt to stitch up another African

if she brought the mop to clean up the blood, why didn't she finish the job/ actually clean up the blood?
the footprints were proven to only belong to Guede
and the issue about her "stitching up another African" have been explained to death. the police put that idea in her head (that it was an African) and basically forced her to name someone.
 
Yeah reading further on that wiki (ok it's a wiki but still) there's just lots of things that make you think eh? I mean for example why the fuck say 'we slept until 10:30' when records show someone, presumably Rafael, was pissing about on his pc at 6:30 am trying to play an mp3 file that crashed VLC player twice, they then tried it in itunes, it worked and played for half an hour. There's just no way you'd forget that, even after smoking a bit of weed several hours before. The only way you could possibly forget that is if you were smashed out your head on booze and they weren't.

if you had just gone from a bookish college student with no criminal record to someone who committed a horrific murder overnight, do you really think you'd be faffing about with an mp3 that's not working correctly at 6:30 a.m.? do you really think that's where your priorities would be?
(an aside: oddly enough, not just Sollecito's but also Knox's and Kercher's hard drives were all apparently destroyed during the course of investigation :hmm: )

and furthermore, for those who aren't aware, Guede has made at least two different statements about what happened that night. In the first, Amanda wasn't there, and Meredith discovered money missing and blamed it on Amanda. Guede and Meredith kissed but nothing else, Guede felt sick from a kebab and went to the toilet, listened to his ipod, heard noises, came out, saw a man who "came up to his eyebrows" (Sollecito is actually taller than Guede) wielding a knife, Guede fought off an attack from the man, who ran off saying that Guede would be convicted because of the color of his skin. That was Guede's written statement to police.

In a different statement, the one I believe is what this most recent part of the trial was based on (despite not using this testimony in court) he claims that they were all there, and Meredith and Amanda argued about the money incident and he kissed Meredith and then went to the bathroom and this time the doorbell rang (ok, who rings the doorbell to their own house?) and it was Amanda coming back to kill Meredith, and the rest of the story is basically the same, with the two running off into the night

Now, in either case, does it not seem strange that Amanda and Rafaelle would have just gone back to his place, slept, played with the computer, etc? In any case, why would they have not thought about the crime scene being discovered, or about Guede or someone calling the police?
Keeping in mind that these are two young college kids that have no prior history of anything like this. Do you really think they would have just casually walked back over there in the morning, mop in hand, to clean up evidence from the murder, which they knew there had been a witness to? Not to mention coming back at some point to stage a break-in?

What we know actually did happen is that Guede ran away to Germany with his bloody clothes and shoes (the ones that turned out to have made all the footprints).
 
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Keeping in mind that these are two young college kids that have no prior history of anything like this. Do you really think they would have just casually walked back over there in the morning, mop in hand, to clean up evidence from the murder, which they knew there had been a witness to? Not to mention coming back at some point to stage a break-in?

Incredibly enough, the prosecution took the fact that they weren't acting guilty as further evidence of their guilt. They were supposed to be so hardened, so vile, so corrupted by their Satanic "sex games" that they behaved with the stone-cold nonchalence of psychopaths.

That was literally Mignini's argument.

When I hear someone who actually knows something about the case say they and believe Knox is guilty, I'll eat my hat.

The only advocates of guilt on here are posters like The Pale King and Wilf, who happily admit that they haven't followed the case.
 
The truth will out eventually, but it may take years.

Actually I think it will take a lot less time than that.

My hunch is that this verdict will be the final straw that forces everyone to admit what a collosal cock-up this case has been from the start.

The problem is that this will force Italy to confront a rather familiar "appalling vista," which many people will naturally be reluctant to do. This time though, they're surely going to have to do it.
 
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