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Amanda Knox Is Innocent

phildwyer said:
Now you're just getting angry. No need.

Be honest. You didn't know about Mignini's history did you?

"The Prosecutor of Perugia is a balding, portly Italian who has a thing for conspiracy theories involving Satanic sects. Giuliano Mignini, the 60-year-old magistrate who oversaw the failed Amanda Knox prosecution, has put forth wild and bizarre hypotheses about the murder of her roommate, Meredith Kercher. His actions, according to many observers, not only laid the groundwork for Knox's Monday acquittal by an Italian appeals court-but were outright unprofessional and bordering on the criminal. He was even censured last year for abusing his office. "Why are people afraid to stop him?" author Mario Spezi once asked on CBS News. "Why was he allowed to work on the Amanda Knox case and present his crazy ideas?"


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...inal-observers-article-1.959606#ixzz2s69iPGwS
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The link you provide is to an article written when there was a million dollars being floated around the media by the defence campaign. Must have been quite tempting for many Journos to jump on the bandwagon. However that said, even if it is true about Mignini (He was promoted 8 months ago) it doesn't detract from the mass of circumstantial evidence that mounts up against the accused. The motive of the crime is unclear and speculation about it is secondary.

A few posts back there was mention of the problem of police investigations fixing on one line to the detrement of any other leads. Police can fall into the trap of fitting the evidence to their initial theory although by now you would think they would have learned some techniques on how to avoid that.

But what other possible scenario could they consider after this?

A. Finding Guede's footprints in blood going straight out of the house and a man and a woman's barefoot prints in blood in several of the rooms (albeit cleaned up),
B. The mop used for this cleaning missing (Amanda saying she took it to Solecitto's, after it had been used to clean a murder scene).
C. The face of the victim covered. (a recognized sign that killers knew vicitm)
D. An obviously staged break-in. Why stage this? think about it.
E. Conflicting and changing Alibi's
F. Amanda accusing an innocent man after one hour of interrogation.
G. Amanda's panic call to her mum before body found.
 
Last edited:
“remedied” the second-instance verdict that acquitted Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, itself overturned on the grounds that it exhibited “numerous shortcomings, contradictions and logical inconsistencies”
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The accusation found it hard not to scream corruption at Hellman. The inconsistencies were in fact illegalities, ie, Hellman (appeal judge) refusing to allow further DNA tests and an obvious premise on his part in favour of the defendants, exemplified by his way of referring to them as "decent" people. Solecitto being into animal porn and knife collecting obviously not warranting attention.
 
Anudder Oik said:
The link you provide is to an article written when there was a million dollars being floated around the media by the defence campaign. Must have been quite tempting for many Journos to jump on the bandwagon. However that said, even if it is true about Mignini (He was promoted 8 months ago) it doesn't detract from the mass of circumstantial evidence that mounts up against the accused. The motive of the crime is unclear and speculation about it is secondary.

A few posts back there was mention of the problem of police investigations fixing on one line to the detrement of any other leads. Police can fall into the trap of fitting the evidence to their initial theory although by now you would think they would have learned some techniques on how to avoid that.

But what other possible scenario could they consider after this?

A. Finding Guede's footprints in blood going straight out of the house and a man and a woman's barefoot prints in blood in several of the rooms (albeit cleaned up),
B. The mop used for this cleaning missing (Amanda saying she took it to Solecitto's, after it had been used to clean a murder scene).
C. The face of the victim covered. (a recognized sign that killers knew vicitm)
D. An obviously staged break-in. Why stage this? think about it.
E. Conflicting and changing Alibi's
F. Amanda accusing an innocent man after one hour of interrogation.
G. Amanda's panic call to her mum before body found.
Click to expand...

Guede's DNA was all over the crime scene. Inside and outside the body. There was no DNA to link Knox to the crime scene - at all. The one DNA link to her co-accused was from the clasp on the bra - but only on the clasp. Whereas the strap was covered in Guede's DNA. It strongly implies Sollecitto's got there through contamination. Other than that the conclusion you seem to have drawn is that they managed to clean up the crime scene of their own involvement. And only their own involvement!


BTW (F) - has been pretty much dealt with in post 1552 if you'd care to look.
 
phildwyer said:
Giuliano Mignini is a right nutter. He clearly has issues with female sexuality, and a weird credulity with regard to bizarre conspiracies. He's fixated on the idea that Knox was into ritualistic "sex games," despite the complete absence of any evidence from her earlier life. His next big case after Knox was a strange, obsessive persecution of a stripper. And before Knox there was the case of the "Monster of Florence:"

"In early 2002, Mignini had Narducci's body exhumed and examined. Mignini believed that the body was not decomposed enough to be Narducci's. A medical examination determined that the body was in fact Narducci's. Mignini then theorised that the body had been swapped twice.[14] Mignini alleged that Narducci had been involved in a secret society and killed to keep quiet and that his father, Ugo Narducci, a member of a masonic lodge, had masterminded the cover up.[18][19] Mignini's theory involved a complicated conspiracy of 20 people, including government officials and law enforcement officers. Mignini indicted 20 people and charged them with the concealment of Narducci's murder. The charges were eventually dismissed.[20] Narducci's family and colleagues believe that his death was a suicide."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuliano_Mignini

This is the guy who should be under investigation.
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Argumentum ad hominem...

Bringing the prosecutor's mental state into judgement doesn't prove her innocence. I'm not saying she was guilty of murder, because I don't know... but I'm not alone in that boat.
 
Dr_Herbz said:
Argumentum ad hominem...

Bringing the prosecutor's mental state into judgement doesn't prove her innocence. I'm not saying she was guilty of murder, because I don't know... but I'm not alone in that boat.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The Italian justice system didn't and doesn't stop with Mignini as the ongoing case clearly shows. In the US however "Foxy Knoxy" might well already be on death row (if of of course her father had not been vice president of Macy's).
 
ViolentPanda said:
Yes, I did. What's your point, other than trying to polarise things into "you're either with us or against us"?
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The point is that when police discovered evidence a black man was involved it was they who zeroed in on Lumumba - jumping to the conclusion that it simply had to be him. How convenient that Knox came to name when that was exactly what they wanted to hear: "Case Closed! according to Magnini".
So far from Knox deflecting attention onto an innocent man his arrest merely confirmed, according to the police take on events at that time - her own involvement as a co-conspirator in the rape and murder of Kercher.
Indeed it's all too easy to imagine that had Guede not already been known to police/or had the bar owner's alibi not proven to be absolutely cast iron then he too could have been in the dock along side Knox and Sollecitto.
 
Joe Reilly said:
Guede's DNA was all over the crime scene. Inside and outside the body. There was no DNA to link Knox to the crime scene - at all. The one DNA link to her co-accused was from the clasp on the bra - but only on the clasp. Whereas the strap was covered in Guede's DNA. It strongly implies Sollecitto's got there through contamination. Other than that the conclusion you seem to have drawn is that they managed to clean up the crime scene of their own involvement. And only their own involvement!


BTW (F) - has been pretty much dealt with in post 1552 if you'd care to look.
Click to expand...

You know the house is the crime scene, right? Are you saying that there is no trace of Knox in the house she was living in? Because that would be most odd.

There was, of course. There was her DNA in multiple areas of the bathroom, mixed with Meredith Kercher's blood. Interestingly, the only Knox DNA found in her own room was on a pair of her shoes. There was also a bloody footprint belonging to Knox, and another belonging to Sollecito.

Knox's lamp was also found in Meredith's room.

I'm also interested in the contamination - how would this work? Where did Sollecito's DNA come from then? How did it magically migrate onto the bra clasp?
Knox and Sollecito must just be really unlucky people I guess...
 
quiquaquo said:
(if of of course her father had not been vice president of Macy's).
Click to expand...

The Knox family was middle-class, not wealthy. And now they're broke.

Being "vice president of Macy's" isn't a particularly big deal. Macy's will have loads of "vice presidents" in various departments.
 
The Pale King said:
I'm also interested in the contamination - how would this work? Where did Sollecito's DNA come from then? How did it magically migrate onto the bra clasp?.
Click to expand...

I agree with all the rest of your points and think both are guilty as sin. But DNA transference is a weak strand on its own in my view. Basically it can be transferred by anyone touching something someone else has touched. As Sollecito had legitimate reason to be in the house the presence of his DNA isnt evidence of guilt in my view. His footrints in Kerchners blood however are pretty damning, as are a number of other factors.
 
quiquaquo said:
Corriere's opinion translated: ttp://www.corriere.it/english/14_gennaio_31/grounds-for-new-kercher-murder-verdict-revealed-31132732-8a7a-11e3-aecc-b2fa07970b97.shtml
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From the above:

"The line taken by the supreme court in ordering a second appeal trial is clear: “To delineate the subjective position of Rudy Guede’s co-perpetrators, before a range of possible situations, which go from an agreement engendering the murder option to modifying a plan of action that initially contemplated only the involvement of the British woman in a sex game in which she did not want to participate or exclusive forcible participation in an extreme group sex game that spiralled out of control”."

Seriously? There's nothing in the past of either Knox or Sollecito to suggest they'd be playing nonconsenual "extreme sex games" with virtual strangers just 10 days after meeting each other.

I suppose anything's possible but it doesn't sound plausible, especially when combined with the Prosecutor's character...
 
Casually Red said:
I agree with all the rest of your points and think both are guilty as sin. But DNA transference is a weak strand on its own in my view. Basically it can be transferred by anyone touching something someone else has touched. As Sollecito had legitimate reason to be in the house the presence of his DNA isnt evidence of guilt in my view. His footrints in Kerchners blood however are pretty damning, as are a number of other factors.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I confess I do not know anything about the mechanics of DNA transference. I pointed out earlier that the only DNA of Knox that was found own her own bedroom was on a pair of shoes this suggests to me that it isn't quite so easy to leave DNA lying around, otherwise there would surely have been more. The chances of the bra clasp being accidentally contaminated with Sollecito's DNA seems rather remote to me, but as I say I am no authority on the subject.
 
phildwyer said:
From the above:

"The line taken by the supreme court in ordering a second appeal trial is clear: “To delineate the subjective position of Rudy Guede’s co-perpetrators, before a range of possible situations, which go from an agreement engendering the murder option to modifying a plan of action that initially contemplated only the involvement of the British woman in a sex game in which she did not want to participate or exclusive forcible participation in an extreme group sex game that spiralled out of control”."

Seriously? There's nothing in the past of either Knox or Sollecito to suggest they'd be playing nonconsenual "extreme sex games" with virtual strangers just 10 days after meeting each other.

I suppose anything's possible but it dosn't sound plausible, especially when combined with the Prosecutor's character...
Click to expand...

There is though. What about when Knox hired some goons to burst into the flat she was living in and pretend they were robbing the place, terrifying her flatmates? She admitted as much on her blog. This suggests to me that she enjoys creating situations which cause fear in those around her, and of having the power to ameliorate or intensify these feelings.

There is also her fiction, which deals in themes of sexual violence.
 
The Pale King said:
There is though. What about when Knox hired some goons to burst into the flat she was living in and pretend they were robbing the place, terrifying her flatmates? She admitted as much on her blog.
Click to expand...

That was a sorority hazing.

If you know what that is, you'll know why it's irrelevant here.

You often talk about things that, by your own admission, you know nothing about.
 
The Pale King said:
My point was that if it is true that the police forced Knox to accuse Lumumba, and she was not, in fact, accusing an innocent man of her own volition, it must also be true that the translator who was present at the time perjured herself when she testified to this effect:

  • Donnino was repeatedly asked about mistreatment of Amanda Knox.
    • To the multiple questions of was Amanda Knox hit Donnino answered no and added that she never left the room.
    • Asked if Knox was told she would spend 30 years in jail and never see her family Donnino testified that it was never said.
    • Asked if Knox was told there was evidence against her again Donnino testified that it was never said.
    • Asked if Knox was told getting a lawyer would make things worse again Donnino testified that this was never said. In fact Donnino stated Knox was asked if she wanted a lawyer and she said no. Donnino's version of events are supported by an intercepted conversation between Knox and her mother where Knox stated that she didn't feel like she needed a lawyer.
    • Asked if they Knox was mistreated in any way, Donnino said no and that the SCO Ivano went out of his way to show compassion for Knox.
    • Donnino also testified that at one point one of the officers went to get drinks for the group including Knox.
  • Donnino did testify that before Knox confessed she was told that Raffaele Sollecito was no longer supporting her alibi. Sollecito had changed his story and was now telling the police that he was home alone and that he had lied because Amanda Knox had asked him to.
  • Donnino was also asked about the claim that she told Amanda Knox to imagine what happened. Donnino unequivocally denied that she said to imagine. Donnino explained that she told Knox a personal story about a traumatic event that happened to her and that the trauma affected her memory and that Knox should try to remember. Donnino denies ever telling Knox to imagine what might have happened.
  • Bongiorno seized on Donnino saying that she was attempting to create a personal connection to Amanda Knox as a criticism of Donnino's role as interpreter. Donnino explains that she views herself as both an interpreter and a mediator.
Click to expand...

This is cut'n'paste, right?

Why don't you cite the source?
 
phildwyer said:
That was a sorority hazing.

If you know what that is, you'll know why it's irrelevant here.

You often talk about things that, by your own admission, you know nothing about.
Click to expand...

And your knowledge of the Italian legal system, Italy, Italians or indeed the Italian language is exactly what welshie?
 
Joe Reilly said:
The point is that when police discovered evidence a black man was involved it was they who zeroed in on Lumumba - jumping to the conclusion that it simply had to be him. How convenient that Knox came to name when that was exactly what they wanted to hear: "Case Closed! according to Magnini".
Click to expand...

Nice bit of selective editing in there, Joe. Almost as quality as the report it's originally derived from (or I should say "interpretation" rather than report, as it's more accurate).

So far from Knox deflecting attention onto an innocent man his arrest merely confirmed, according to the police take on events at that time - her own involvement as a co-conspirator in the rape and murder of Kercher.
Click to expand...

That her mentioning Mr. Lumumba didn't serve a purpose that she putatively intended is neither here nor there, unless you believe there was some kind of conspiracy against her.

Indeed it's all too easy to imagine that had Guede not already been known to police/or had the bar owner's alibi not proven to be absolutely cast iron then he too could have been in the dock along side Knox and Sollecitto.
Click to expand...

I agree, and yet Mr. Lumumba's innocence has little to do with anything regarding Ms. Knox and Mr. Sollecito's innocence or guilt.
 
The Pale King said:
You know the house is the crime scene, right? Are you saying that there is no trace of Knox in the house she was living in? Because that would be most odd.

There was, of course. There was her DNA in multiple areas of the bathroom, mixed with Meredith Kercher's blood. Interestingly, the only Knox DNA found in her own room was on a pair of her shoes. There was also a bloody footprint belonging to Knox, and another belonging to Sollecito.

Knox's lamp was also found in Meredith's room.

I'm also interested in the contamination - how would this work? Where did Sollecito's DNA come from then? How did it magically migrate onto the bra clasp?
Knox and Sollecito must just be really unlucky people I guess...
Click to expand...

Contact contamination/transference of genetic material can happen, but it's dependent on a lot of factors, such as: length of contact of materials; nature of genetic material; force of contact; storage environment.
 
Anudder Oik said:
T
But what other possible scenario could they consider after this?

A. Finding Guede's footprints in blood going straight out of the house and a man and a woman's barefoot prints in blood in several of the rooms (albeit cleaned up),
B. The mop used for this cleaning missing (Amanda saying she took it to Solecitto's, after it had been used to clean a murder scene).
C. The face of the victim covered. (a recognized sign that killers knew vicitm)
D. An obviously staged break-in. Why stage this? think about it.
E. Conflicting and changing Alibi's
F. Amanda accusing an innocent man after one hour of interrogation.
G. Amanda's panic call to her mum before body found.
Click to expand...

almost all of this is completely false. this is what's so irritating about these threads. I just wanted to pop in to say that. feel free to keep spouting fabricated nonsense though, if it makes you happy :)
 
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