Amanda Knox Is Innocent

[ymu]

Can you give one example where triangulation with pro Knox sites could be useful?

I ask because I get the impression the pro Knox sites avoid the evidence as much as possible and concentrate on sentiment, nationalistic emotions or her looks. They are quite dumbed down when compared to the justice web.

The whole defence at the appeal, that resulted in aquittal, was centred around totally "ignoring" the mass of evidence, rendering everything outside the murder room as irrelevent. They were allowed to move the "legal" goal posts in an exceptional violation of law. That has now been remedied.

It's a while since I looked at this stuff, and you're right, the pro-Knox sites are largely evidence-free but some of the US media (mostly pro-Knox) carry properly sourced reports. IIRC the dodgy timings of the phone calls and the CCTV time-stamps are not as incriminating as first appeared, for one example.

The best method is to take something from truejustice that appears highly significant and search for mentions on other sites.

I also don't think truejustice does enough to look at Guede's story, and they rather misrepresent him and the life he was living at the time. They do a fair bit of character assassination that is not warranted (or did last time I checked).

 

[Citizen66]

Venice is 8 hours ahead of Seattle. So a 3 am phone call would be 7pm in Seattle.

 

[phildwyer]

Was "witchcraft used as evidence? No, so it is irrelevent.

It is not irrelevant, as it shows the Chief Prosecutor to be barking mad.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Venice is 8 hours ahead of Seattle. So a 3 am phone call would be 7pm in Seattle.

It was 0447 Seattle time (1247 in Perugia) it was made before the murder was discovered.

 

[Anudder Oik]

It is not irrelevant, as it shows the Chief Prosecutor to be barking mad.

You cannot dismiss the mass of evidence by attacking the prosecutor and even if he were mad (and they don't seem to think so in Italy), the case is not about him but rather about evidence that needs to be either proved or refuted.

You can't answer the questions about the case solely on the premise that the prosecutor is mad.

What about the staged burglary? Prosecutor mad.

What about the framing of bar owner? Prosecutor mad.

What about soleccito withdrawing his alibi that included Knox? Prosecutor mad.

You see, it doesn't work does it.

 

[phildwyer]

You cannot dismiss the mass of evidence by attacking the prosecutor and even if he were mad (and they don't seem to think so in Italy), the case is not about him but rather about evidence that needs to be either proved or refuted.

You can't answer the questions about the case solely on the premise that the prosecutor is mad.

What about the staged burglary? Prosecutor mad.

What about the framing of bar owner? Prosecutor mad.

What about soleccito withdrawing his alibi that included Knox? Prosecutor mad.

You see, it doesn't work does it.

I wouldn't want no mad Prosecutor prosecuting my ass.

 

[Citizen66]

It was 0447 Seattle time (1247 in Perugia) it was made before the murder was discovered.

Ok got it the wrong way round. Fair dos. But people can ring each other at nuts hours and more so when in different time zones. I think the last person I'd want to call if I'd just been involved in a violent rape and murder would be my mam!

Although I wouldn't be involved in a violent rape and murder either so who knows how minds tick.

 

[Citizen66]

It's the framing of the innocent bar owner which always made me doubt anything they had to say. Framing the black guy is so bad/obvious it's a cliche. Why did they do that?

Where do you stand on that phildwyer given your hardline anti racism stance?

 

[ymu]

Framing the black guy in a very white town two weeks before it was known that a black guy was involved is particularly suspicious.

 

[phildwyer]

It's the framing of the innocent bar owner which always made me doubt anything they had to say. Framing the black guy is so bad/obvious it's a cliche. Why did they do that?

Police intimidation, the usual.

 

[phildwyer]

Framing the black guy in a very white town two weeks before it was known that a black guy was involved is particularly suspicious.

Yes. Sounds suspiciously like something the police would do. And also like something a liberal white college girl from Seattle wouldn't do unless pressured quite heavily.

 

[ymu]

They don't often frame middle-class bar owners whatever the colour of their skin. They'd have known the poor black kids who would be easier to set up; Knox did not. They had Knox and Sollecito in custody and no need at all to frame a random.

They arrested Lumumba the same day they arrested Knox and Sollecito. She cracked rather quickly, and in a very unusual way. Confessing and setting up an innocent man is not at all common. And she did it because Sollecito had cracked and told them she was not around the whole of that evening.

It's a confusing mess, for sure. If only it were as simple as the world according to Dwyer.

 

[Citizen66]

Yes. Sounds suspiciously like something the police would do. And also like something a liberal white college girl from Seattle wouldn't do unless pressured quite heavily.

Yeah. It's perfectly normal for dumb coppers to arrest and charge middle class people to help them cover up the fitting up of a black man. And then have the nightmare of a trans-continental media interest in a trial of said middle class people on their hands when the story doesn't hold up to scrutiny and would have been much simpler not to involve the college kids. I don't trust the police as much as the next man. But you're taking HUGE leaps of faith to fit your conclusion.

 

[twentythreedom]

Why's phildwyer banned?

 

[Citizen66]

Because 'fuck off, dwyer' entered a mod's brain and started to fester.

 

[Citizen66]

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-federal-reserve.295325/page-33#post-12092824

As I said, then.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Framing the black guy in a very white town two weeks before it was known that a black guy was involved is particularly suspicious.

Incidentally, it mentions on the justice website that the bar owner (Knox's employer) had the intention of sacking her and giving her job to the victim. I don't know if that story is verified but given the further context that Knox had previously walked out of a cushy job in Berlin that her parents had set up for her, before even her first lunch break, One could be forgiven for believing she wasn't arsed about her jobs.

The phone call to Seattle at 4 in the morning is also suspicious. It's as though she knew she was in trouble so turned on an instinctive reflex to her mother. The body had yet to be discovered and Knox had already been to the house to collect a "mop" for a supposed leak at Soleccitos house. While collecting the mop she took a shower in the "blood soaked bathroom", which didn't bother her at the time, and then left with the mop, which had coincidentially been used to clean up the hall of blood stained footprints. (an unfortunate coincidence?).

later she returned with Soleccito and became jittery enough to phone and wake her mother, knowing it was 4 in the morning in Seattle.

Later, cartwheels, changing alibis, DNA, framing, a faked burglary, a million dollar dumbed down defence campaign and illegalities in the proceeds of the appeal that released her and Soleccito. The contradictions are too many to list here.

 

[ymu]

It was not a blood-soaked bathroom. The red colour in the photos is from a forensic chemical used to show up blood.

One of the myths truejustice won't tell you about.

And forget the fucking cartwheels. She's a deeply immature young woman. That does not make her a killer.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I would be grateful if you could point out any inconsistencies on the true justice website as they appear to be, in my opinion, serious, methodical and informative. Something that is not reflected in the pro knox camp media or anywhere else.

I think it is important to question the information they upload, so, where would you start?

 

[ymu]

I'm not going through all this shit again.

You mentioned that she had a shower in a blood-soaked bathroom. That is not true. If you got it from truejustice, then they are promoting myths and/or failing to debunk them.

I've already suggested where to start. I'm not doing the fucking legwork for you.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I'm not going through all this shit again.

You mentioned that she had a shower in a blood-soaked bathroom. That is not true. If you got it from truejustice, then they are promoting myths and/or failing to debunk them.

I've already suggested where to start. I'm not doing the fucking legwork for you.

You are right about there not being large amounts of blood visible in the bathroom before the chemical application (see video), hence Amanda having a shower and not being bothered at the time, if you believe her version.

The question is, why then did she panic enough later on to warrant her phoning Seattle at 4 in the morning (Seattle time) waking her mother? Which is the point I tried to make before.

Video bathroom
http://www.youtube.com/embed/n71ZJPBq8uk?start=

If there was hardly any blood, what spooked her? What warranted her call to her mother before the victim was found? Why the panic?

 

[ymu]

I am not interested in this speculation. But if you want to be taken seriously you need to apply a more critical approach which does not include repeating loon shit alongside the genuine causes for suspicion.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss circumstantial evidence. This was the track taken by the Hellman appeal (the one that let them go) and was one of the lines of attack of the recent appeal that has ended with the anullment of the Hellman verdict.

The abundance of circumstantial evidence needs to be seen as a whole and not in a conveniently fragmented way. The Hellman appeal focused on the quality of some pieces of circumstantial evidence, instead of their correlation to each other as the Supreme Court always requires.

For more insight into the reasoning why the aquittal has been annulled you can read this summary of the main points of the document submitted to the high court by Galati several months ago.


An Overview From Italy Of The Galati-Costagliola Appeal To The Supreme Court Of Cassation

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C558/

 

[ymu]

I said apply some critical faculties, not reject all circumstantial evidence. Virtually all useful evidence is circumstantial.

 

[Citizen66]

The phone call to Seattle at 4 in the morning is also suspicious. It's as though she knew she was in trouble so turned on an instinctive reflex to her mother.

Or she might have a habit of phoning people at innapropriate hours after being on the sauce. We can shoe horn pretty much any narrative we want in there.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Or she might have a habit of phoning people at innapropriate hours after being on the sauce. We can shoe horn pretty much any narrative we want in there.

Apparently she didn't. The strange phone call needs to be seen in the broader context also. Randomly seen it could fit any narrative as you said but seen in perspective with everything else it stands out as highly suspect.

On another point CNN have actually allowed some dissent into their press coverage. Check out the lawyer Dershowitz.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/26/justice/knox-extradition/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

 

[Citizen66]

I still don't agree, unfortunately. Unless we know the content of the call there's no point in speculating on it. Given there's an 8 hour time difference there's a very small window of time for calls to be not considered 'strange'. 4am in Seattle is mid-day in Italy.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I still don't agree, unfortunately. Unless we know the content of the call there's no point in speculating on it. Given there's an 8 hour time difference there's a very small window of time for calls to be not considered 'strange'. 4am in Seattle is mid-day in Italy.

Speaking to ABC’s 20/20 show a few weeks later, Edda described the content of that call as follows:
[Amanda] goes, “I’m back at my house, and I want you… first I know I’m okay.” And I said, “Okay, you know, what’s goin’ on?” And she said, “Well, I was at Rafael’s last night… and I’ve come home now and I think somebody’s been in my house…” And she told me, “We can’t find Meredith. We can’t get a hold of Meredith. And her room is locked.” And I said, “Hang up and call the police.”

.

The call was made 15 minutes after 2 postal police came to the house to return mobile phones found in a garden. Knox and Solecitto told them they had "already" called the police (untrue) as there looked to have been a burglary (the staged one). 20 minutes later they actually call the police. They lied to the postal police who surprised them outside the house, which incidentally stunk of bleach from the cleaning.

To make sense of this it needs to be seen in context.

 

[Citizen66]

Fair dos. That does look pretty suspect in that context.

As i've said previously but perhaps not in this thread, the attempted framing of the black bar owner (who subsequently lost his livelihood because of it) has always made me a bit sceptical about anything knox and sollecito had to say. It's a shit thing to do to someone.

 

[Citizen66]

.

The call was made 15 minutes after 2 postal police came to the house to return mobile phones found in a garden. Knox and Solecitto told them they had "already" called the police (untrue) as there looked to have been a burglary (the staged one). 20 minutes later they actually call the police. They lied to the postal police who surprised them outside the house, which incidentally stunk of bleach from the cleaning.

To make sense of this it needs to be seen in context.

Cleaning a house with bleach isn't evidence of guilt either though. My OH does it all the time and it proper pisses me off as it keeps fucking up my clothes. Same with her psycholigical need to decorate every other week.