taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
3m 42 in the above video - labels BBerg as "genociders". Typical CT trope. Mine is not a comment on whether it's true or not.
Alex Jones - Two Stops Past Barking?
- Thread starter existentialist
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I agree with you here. Your failure to list any conspiracy theories that he endorses and your insistence that you have is rather weak.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
As I said upthread -
2008 financial crash was deliberate
establishment paedophilia far more widespread than many would account for
Allusion to 911 and occult stuff.
BBerg are "genociders".
Will post up more for you to pretend isn't there anon.
Keep dropping the ball guys.
SpineyNorman
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No you haven't. You've mentioned him calling the queen a goat - an obvious pisstake - about skullfuckers - again, a pisstake/insult. And said that he's 'touched on' 9/11. Well so has Noam Chomsky, so have I, so have many people but that doesn't mean we're conspiracy theorists.
If you can't back up your claims that he's a conspiracy theorist just admit it.
SpineyNorman
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That's it? A bit of hyperbolic language makes him a conspiracy theorist? Any evidence of him talking about, you know, actual conspiracy theories?
SpineyNorman
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What exactly did he say about that? Again, I don't really trust your judgement on this, given previous form, so I'd rather see it for myself.
I have my suspicions on this too. That doesn't mean I'm a conspiracy theorist though.
What kind of allusion to 9/11? If the occult stuff is him calling people skull fuckers that isn't exactly cast iron.
That's just hyperbole.
Oh dear.
SpineyNorman
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I have no idea whether he is or is not a conspiracy theorist by the way. It's just that I'd prefer something a bit more concrete than him calling someone a skull fucker and taffboy just knowing, deep down, that he is one.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
The Artist Taxi Driver often says "this isn't a recession, it's a robbery", and calls the austerity/recession a "planned demolition" or some such phrase (maybe taken from Max Keiser?) - the point being that it was engineered, ideological aattack on the poor, something quite a few of us here can agree with, I would imagine.
His persona is clearly in sync with/parodic of conspiracy theorists, hence all the references to elves, hooves, centaurs, the Black Pope etc. Whether these are Mark MacGowan's actual views or not is another matter!
SpineyNorman
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That's just populist hyperbole though. Nothing to do with conspiracy theory.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Well I like him, I actually think he is one of the best people around in bringing views like ours to a wider audience, i think what he's done has been overwhelmingly positive, and I need some damn good evidence before I think that he is. I'm already annoyed at russell brand ffs. perhaps it's taking the piss out of conspiracy theories because so many people think anything left-wing is a "conspiracy" (i've been accused of it in the past ffs!)
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
This is a good one, Portmeirion, the Prisoner, tinfoil hat 3:40 mins onwards in particular 
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
I reckon quite a few Coalition-voting people would call that a CT though
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
of course they would which is why i think it's important that we give him the benefit of the doubt, you know how these people are so keen to coopt the likes of Noam Chomsky etc into their worldviews. I would like to have some actual evidence rather than just certain phrases being used before I accept what someone on the internet has said about him.
SpineyNorman
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They also call Chomsky a conspiracy theorist and Marxism a conspiracy theory. I'm concerned about whether he is a conspiracy theorist, not whether right wing loons might think he is.
SpineyNorman
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This is a good one, Portmeirion, the Prisoner, tinfoil hat 3:40 mins onwards in particular
He's clearly taking the piss out of 'libertarian' conspiracy theorists (freemen etc) there.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Depends what you mean by CT. A lot of peeps wd probably think I was a CT-er cos I might give credence to Gladio, JFK assassination , Daniel Pearl killing/ISI involvement theories etc etc. If by CT-er you mean Icke-style, Iluminati, Protocols bollocks, then that's something else again
SpineyNorman
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Depends what you mean by CT. A lot of peeps wd probably think I was a CT-er cos I might give credence to Gladio, JFK assassination , Daniel Pearl killing/ISI involvement theories etc etc. If by CT-er you mean Icke-style, Iluminati, Protocols bollocks, then that's something else again
Conspiracies happen. The conspiracy theorist is he or she who subscribes to a (usually wide reaching) theory of conspiracy that the evidence doesn't really support.
I'm not that familiar with the stuff you cite there, but of the ones I do know I'd say the JFK stuff is conspiracy theory - there's no credible evidence to contradict the official line on that one. I mean, the kind of basic corruption we all know happens is a conspiracy in a very narrow sense, but it's not a conspiracy theory.
I sometimes think conspiracy theorists are actually incredibly naive people who, prior to seeing Alex Jones, thought we lived in democracies ruled by benign leaders and that nobody could be shat on by power here because this is Britain and that just wouldn't be cricket. The shock of realising this isn't the case leads to their brains falling out and them accepting any old crap. Whereas people with half a brain, when faced with these tales of corruption, aren't esepecially surprised - more of a 'well dur' response.
And proper conspiracy theorists are those for whom conspiracies shape world events, shape history.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Jack Ruby?
SpineyNorman
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You may want a long, tedious debate about Kennedy but I certainly don't.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Dog fucker.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Disjecta Membra
cashing reality checks but cant even pay atention.
The problem with Alex's "madness" (on this subject) is the triangle effect, in society/business it's the model, so comparable to population a relatively small group do run stuff. In the same sense that capitalisms a conspiracy to horde profits. It's just him or icke are the worst reps for any cause, unfortunately rational anti capitalists are few and far between in the media atm. So we're left with lunacy which the media use as the perfect dis-info agents to stifle serious debate.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Soz, I was going hurriedly offline when I last posted, and only had time for a quick one (missus).
Anyway, I too don't want a debate about JFK here (although I wouldn't find it tedious
)because:
a) I have little interest in trying to persuade you to accept my POV
and
b) it would mean a big thread derail.
However, what you said about "credible evidence" does, I think, give us a useful direction in which to go, with regard to separating the good from the bad amongst 'conspiracy' material.
With those three I mentioned, I could cite books by serious journalists/authors (JFK - Anthony Summers' 'Conspiracy'; Gladio - Daniele Ganser's 'NATO's Secret Armies'; Pearl/ISI - Bernard-Henri Lévy's 'Who Killed Daniel Pearl') who have each conducted extensive research - interviewed witnesses, unearthed documents, visited the locations in question.
On the other hand, the Icke-tendency CT-ers'* idea of 'research' seems to me to constitute people just wildly theorizing, using unsourced/unprovenanced internet materials as 'evidence' e.g. the doctored video of Woolwich with the 'unbloodied hands' - with a profound lack of common sense (e.g. 9/11 - a missile hit the Pentagon; or worse, the planes were 'holograms)
The other differentiating factor that could be employed is Popper's theory of science - falsifiability (as far as I understand how that works). I can argue to you that on the basis of what I know of Summers' book on the JFK assassination that I believe Oswald didn't act alone. However I am prepared to be swayed otherwise and to be convinced that he did act alone - I understand that Gerald Posner in 'Case Closed' makes a persuasive argument for the latter. A proper CT-er would however refuse to accept that his/her initial theory was wrong -despite all evidence to the contrary. It would then (according to the Popper model) be not science, but pseudo-science. An example of the latter might be suspicion among 7/7 CT-ers - why weren't CCTV images of the four bombers tarvelling to London released? Did that mean they were not the bombers? When - a year or two later - this very CCTV footage was released, it didn't make the CT-ers say "oh well we must have got that wrong, the Govt's 'narrative' was correct after all. Instead they posited faked CCTV footage and other rubbish).
* I'm hesitant about using terms like 'conspiraloon', 'nutter' etc as - and frogwoman has already pointed this out elsewhere I think - it is a bit insulting to people who have, or have had, mental illnesses. I wish there was a better term. Maybe just 'tinfoil hatters'?
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
I love him, I think he gets far more stuff right than wrong. He is passionate and angry about injustices that it's right to be angry about.
Whether he is a full-on 'conspiracy theorist' or not, I dont really mind - he's never to my knowledge said anything racist/antisemitic - and I personally reckon he is taking the piss out of CT-ers anyway, how can it be serious to say the Queen has hooves etc
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I love him, I think he gets far more stuff right than wrong. He is passionate and angry about injustices that it's right to be angry about.
Whether he is a full-on 'conspiracy theorist' or not, I dont really mind - he's never to my knowledge said anything racist/antisemitic - and I personally reckon he is taking the piss out of CT-ers anyway, how can it be serious to say the Queen has hooves etc
I like him, I think he's great, he's brought this stuff to a wider audience, made people think that politics isnt just for people like the ones you see on question time etc. And yep - he's never said anything remotely resembling anti-semitism or racism.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
That's a pretty good working definition. So would you see the 'conspiracy theorist' as one who - without any supporting evidence - expands their explanation of an individual event to encompass a theory of an all-powerful transnational organization? The Icke-folks seem to go on about the Illuminati a great deal, even though there is zero evidence of such a group.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Good point. Even his schtick of being seemingly inarticulate and swearing in blind rage also has a message - that anyone (the 'man in the street') can make their views known. He does have a good grasp of current affairs which he deploys.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Which is the exact opposite of the message Icke et al seek to portray.
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Thinking some more about the Internet-based Icke-tendency CT-ers - their disturbing habit of reading significance into random bits of info in photos of crime scenes, such as the 7/7 bus which had a film ad on the side which read 'extreme terror' or some such - this was supposed to be significant. Another one was a photo taken after the Boston bombing, a car reg plate looked a bit like 'FBI' or 'CIA'... and they again see this as a clue or a sign.
In all this, there is something quite desperate - seeing patterns or significance in random images - ironically, they are the ones trapped in the Matrix, as they lose track of the Real and get lost in Internet photos and fake theories. Baudrillard would have had a field day.
In all this, there is something quite desperate - seeing patterns or significance in random images - ironically, they are the ones trapped in the Matrix, as they lose track of the Real and get lost in Internet photos and fake theories. Baudrillard would have had a field day.
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