Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[el-ahrairah]

What was that about infighting on the left?

fuck off, we're solid

 

[butchersapron]

That was me that had a go at 8den and I am a bit sorry about it as it led to another pointless derail.

8den couldn't seem to tell us apart either.

 

[TruXta]

fuck off, we're solid

You might be, dunno about the rest of these reprobates.

 

[butchersapron]

Anyone noticed any fall-out from the new statesman intern stuff anywhere?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Astonishing now that people have become so soppy that someone pointing out the consequences of their actions were actually achieving the opposite of their intended aim and pissing all over other peoples substantive contributions results in such outrage. Or that telling another poster that that their bringing in years old beef to a thread that has nothing to do with it (and i note no outrage at 8den simply making stuff up goes by without any comment or condemnation from you) is a bit shit is somehow verboten. It's almost as if i'm interested in the thread and how and where its going - a bit like you jon eh?

You might want to think how you come across at times, if your interest is purely in the discussion. I used to really enjoy your posts, and, occassionally, sparring with you. Thought I was learning a bit, and at least being very entertained. Recently ive just felt like im watching....well, what I described above. Anyway, as you were.

 

[rekil]

8den couldn't seem to tell us apart either.

<--- Best leave it at that.

 

[cesare]

Anyone noticed any fall-out from the new statesman intern stuff anywhere?

It's not fall-out as such, but if you didn't already know Blears has a private members bill going through: http://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/pm/articles/2012/12/an-end-to-interns.htm

 

[butchersapron]

<--- Best leave it at that.

(I reckon so too - but remember the anti-policing police have eyes everywhere )

 

[butchersapron]

It's not fall-out as such, but if you didn't already know Blears has a private members bill going through: http://www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/pm/articles/2012/12/an-end-to-interns.htm

Cheers, can't really see those small measures proposed getting govt time and backing.

 

[Dan U]

Anyone noticed any fall-out from the new statesman intern stuff anywhere?

only guido taking the piss. went for £1,250 apparently and guido posted some examples of the NS and Laurie Penny herself, ripping in to Tories for this practice previously.

^ may be on the thread already am just in the midst of a big catch up.

 

[butchersapron]

only guido taking the piss. went for £1,250 apparently and guido posted some examples of the NS and Laurie Penny herself, ripping in to Tories for this practice previously.

^ may be on the thread already am just in the midst of a big catch up.

Yep, was discussed a bit. I wonder if the other elements of the cultural-left bubble are going to take up criticisms of what is almost their house-journal, or if, as i suspect is the case, they're all implicated in it so will decide to keep it zipped - leaving the battle-ground clear for right-wingers like Staines.

 

[cesare]

Cheers, can't really see those small measures proposed getting govt time and backing.

Yes, probably unlikely and will go the way of most private members bills. Edit: although employment's getting a lot of attention atm, the recent example (this morning) being redundancy reform

 

[Balbi]

fuck off, we're solid

 

[Dan U]

Yep, was discussed a bit. I wonder if the other elements of the cultural-left bubble are going to take up criticisms of what is almost their house-journal, or if, as i suspect is the case, they're all implicated in it so will decide to keep it zipped - leaving the battle-ground clear for right-wingers like Staines.

i reckon so. they still union denying at the NS as well?

 

[butchersapron]

i reckon so. they still union denying at the NS as well?

I believe so - the NUJ were talking about going for statutory recognition a few years back but that move seems to have dissapeared.

 

[Dan U]

I believe so - the NUJ were talking about going for statutory recognition a few years back but that move seems to have dissapeared.

a bastion of left wing goodness. i'd be proud to be writing for such a publication.

 

[sihhi]

strawberry blonde, surely?

Sorry, but who's paying him 5 grand to speak? I find that bafflingly.

It's an asking price for hirers to haggle down.

Apparently Harris did actually know about the pitch, at the very least. Given $5,000 was possibly at stake, it would seem remiss if his roommate didn’t at least inform him of that too. Additionally, a PDF of promotional material produced by Lavin about Harris was posted, which has now apparently been deleted.

The focus the spiel/agency was really promoting was Malcolm Harris being author of
Share or Die: Voices of the Get Lost Generation in the Age of Crisis



about which he says

A recent piece in the Times discussed the difficult work-lives 20-something graduates are having today, which indicates that the mainstream media is starting to wake up to these realities. The question is, how young people are going to deal with these realities as they move into the work force and live in society? We need to realize what happened and act upon that knowledge. But the current graduates are in an immediately bad spot, so in the book we show a new workforce attempting to become a part of the solution by solving their own problems. The essays we published provide frames for understanding what is happening and how to act on it. This includes how-tos on starting co-op housing and co-op businesses, a guide to collaborative consumption resources, cheap and easy seed-to-plate recipes, a peek inside the pack of a modern nomad, and instructions on how to find the best roommate.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1799188/millennials-work-and-life-are-about-cooperation-not-competition

It's not inconceivable that some firm with trendy, progressive mindset might want to hire him to show a young workforce, hey here's how you cut down your living costs collectively, perhaps think about setting up a business on the side too.
The point is not that someone would actually pay $5,000. It's about creating the impression that they might because their words are so powerful, as that original article states:

This picture of TNI as mostly a springboard to PR success or similar is not just rhetoric based on resentment. TNI alumni brazenly move in that direction: Jennifer Bernstein, one of the three founders, is now working for Seattle marketing company 10 Bellevue. Publicist and TNI contributor Lauren Cerand lists them as one of her clients (http://laurencerand.com/projects/) - along with private equity firm Level Equity. Malcolm Harris peddles Malcolm Gladwell-esque cryptocapitalist nonsense about the communal future with Shareable, and paints himself as a PR genius for convincing the world in 2011 that Radiohead were going to play at Occupy Wall Street (not even an original idea - several months earlier in London the anonymous Deterritorial Support Group convinced enough people that Slavoj Žižek would make a joint appearance with Lady Gaga at Birkbeck that he had to issue a public denial).

In a word it's PR, but PR for a specific purpose.
What's important is that participants see nothing wrong with the careerism, as long as it doesn't become liberal. They are as anti-liberal as the posters on u75.

@rachelrosenfelt only unethical thing I saw in there was labeling Malcolm Harris the Naomi Klein of the 21st century
— moe tkacik (@moetkacik) September 19, 2012

 

[sihhi]

Anyone noticed any fall-out from the new statesman intern stuff anywhere?

What I find hard to take is the fact the right are doing the running with it.
Note how little attention this is getting compared to "the Staggers uses slave labour, hah hah"

But it was lot 77 that was arguably the most depressing. £1000 for a week’s experience in sports journalism – with the Cambridge News. The paper will “endeavour to enable the budding writer to attend a live match with one of our journalists to watch how the paper covers sport as it happens”. That live match would likely be at Cambridge United, a struggling non-league team (I’m allowed to say that – I’ve supported the desperate sods for more than 10 years).

This is a local standard capitalist paper but no outrage. My point yesterday was that interning is everywhere - people who have interned are prefered over those who haven't in securing entry level short-term contracts or freelance positions.

http://davelee.me/a-weeks-work-experience-at-a-local-newspaper-thatll-be-1000/

 

[Citizen66]

Needs to be clear that it's not about an attack on one individual, but that her case is illustrative of a social type/trend.

I would include other examples alongside her (to prevent her using the sexism get out) such as hari and perhaps bragg seeing as he's volunteered himself.

 

[articul8]

I believe so - the NUJ were talking about going for statutory recognition a few years back but that move seems to have dissapeared.

I've raised it with the NUJ - which still isn't recognised in the staggers. Hope to be doing more campaigning against use of interns to replace paid journo staff in the new year

 

[butchersapron]

I've raised it with the NUJ - which still isn't recognised in the staggers. Hope to be doing more campaigning against use of interns to replace paid journo staff in the new year

They really should have sorted this out in 2009 when 14 out of 17 journos there were members. Wonder how many journos are left there now. And am i right in thinking that unpaid interns are not technicaly allowed to replace workers?

 

[articul8]

I would include other examples alongside her (to prevent her using the sexism get out) such as hari and perhaps bragg stung as he's volunteered himself.

I'd be interested in a general analysis ("The new left commentariat") - looking at the conditions of how mainstream media selects them and how they relate to mainstream media, activists and "normals". Owen, Ellie, that ginger guy, Sunny, Laurie...

Maybe Zer0 will publish it

 

[articul8]

They really should have sorted this out in 2009 when 14 out of 17 journos there were members. Wonder how many journos are left there now. And am i right in thinking that unpaid interns are not technicaly allowed to replace workers?

Didn't know that (re 2009) - they get around any technical restrictions by "abolishing" staff posts, but then getting long-term training internships etc up and they often do much of previous work.

 

[sihhi]

They really should have sorted this out in 2009 when 14 out of 17 journos there were members. Wonder how many journos are left there now. And am i right in thinking that unpaid interns are not technicaly allowed to replace workers?

Is it a case that they had recognition before in the 2000s but then Jason Cowley started chipping away at it and then recognised. What happened?

 

[butchersapron]

Didn't know that (re 2009) - they get around any technical restrictions by "abolishing" staff posts, but then getting long-term training internships etc up and they often do much of previous work.

That then should be your campaign point of entry as it widens the issue to how it effects other workers as well rather than just concentrating on the interns and their conditions alone. Good solid cross-shop ground to build from.

 

[butchersapron]

Is it a case that they had recognition before in the 2000s but then Jason Cowley started chipping away at it and then recognised. What happened?

Can't quite recall but that does sound about right.

(btw my figure above of 14/17 being NUJ members in 2009 should read 17/19).

 

[articul8]

I'm don't work on the organising side, but yes I think that's right. Problem in general with the print media is that the climate is so dire people are worrying about their own jobs and often don't want to be seen as trouble makers.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm don't work on the organising side, but yes I think that's right. Problem in general with the print media is that the climate is so dire people are worrying about their own jobs and often don't want to be seen as trouble makers.

Easiest way to ensure that they will get trouble that.

 

[cesare]

Well, the three years are up. So the NUJ could make an(other) application to the CAC.

 

[Balbi]

The thread was meandering into a confused conclusion until LP arrived. The whetstone.