Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished

[MickiQ]

Well yes, but surely they could say, give us two more weeks or we'll bomb the fuck out of you?

In a toe to toe scrap against the US Army, the Taliban are going to be slaughtered but the chances are they will at least kill a few GI's which is going to cause Uncle Joe political problems in a finely balanced Congress and with the public back home who are already muttering about his mishandling of the whole situation. I suspect that the sort of people who will cheer on the the US Military killing Taliban and levelling everything within a 10 mile radius of the airport are Republican voters anyway.
It's all about optics back home, It's not worth risking American lives to save Afghan ones.

 

[TopCat]

I'm still a little unclear as to how or why the self proclaimed 'greatest military force ever assembled' is being bullied out of Kabul like this by a smallish bunch of amateurs?

It’s a bit myopic to call the Taliban a bunch of amateurs. The US and the UK got beaten by them.

 

[mystic pyjamas]

In a toe to toe scrap against the US Army, the Taliban are going to be slaughtered but the chances are they will at least kill a few GI's which is going to cause Uncle Joe political problems in a finely balanced Congress and with the public back home who are already muttering about his mishandling of the whole situation. I suspect that the sort of people who will cheer on the the US Military killing Taliban and levelling everything within a 10 mile radius of the airport are Republican voters anyway.
It's all about optics back home, It's not worth risking American lives to save Afghan ones.

Not to mention the glee from the gangster in Moscow and the dictator in Beijing.

 

[Sprocket.]

It’s a bit myopic to call the Taliban a bunch of amateurs. The US and the UK got beaten by them.

As I mentioned before you would think the West learned that lesson from twenty odd years in Vietnam.

 

[Petcha]

It’s a bit myopic to call the Taliban a bunch of amateurs. The US and the UK got beaten by them.

Yes I get that. And 'amateur' is perhaps a bit glib. But considering how much it costs to train one single marine, yes - this lot are not exactly on the same level training wise. That's what I was going for.

 

[Yossarian]

It’s a bit myopic to call the Taliban a bunch of amateurs. The US and the UK got beaten by them.

Not sure how many amateurs there could be in a country that's been at war for more than 40 years.

 

[MickiQ]

It’s a bit myopic to call the Taliban a bunch of amateurs. The US and the UK got beaten by them.

The Taliban haven't beaten the US and the UK, they've won because the US has basically just decided to give up, The Taliban have won by basically not dying. And of course they were always going to come out on top precisely for that reason.
If the US had decided not to pull out then none of this would have happened now but it would still have happened 5 or 10 or 20 years from now

 

[Sprocket.]

The Taliban have succeeded because the NATO coalition couldn’t see the tribal divisions within Afghanistan. The attempts to unite each tribal zone was doomed to failure from the day they decided to try to run everything from Kabul.
The areas outside Kabul in the provinces just saw the Afghan Army and all the foreign forces as just more invaders to be resisted.
I think someone could see this obvious problem after twenty years and decided to just walk away.

 

[Sprocket.]

Of course America has previous for leaving those who helped them in the lurch. So has most of the NATO countries.
In Vietnam it is believed over 30,000 South Vietnamese citizens were killed because of lists of CIA informants records left in the US embassy in Saigon.
Hopefully they have disposed of anything similar in Kabul.

 

[Yossarian]

Yes I get that. And 'amateur' is perhaps a bit glib. But considering how much it costs to train one single marine, yes - this lot are not exactly on the same level training wise. That's what I was going for.

CIA Begrudgingly Impressed By How Well They Trained Future Taliban Members In 1980s

WASHINGTON—Reluctantly acknowledging a faint stir of pride at the success of their tutelage, the CIA admitted Tuesday to being begrudgingly impressed by how well they trained future Taliban members throughout the 1980s. “Damn, we really have to give ourselves a little bit of a pat on the back...

www.theonion.com

 

[not-bono-ever]

UK evacuation from Kabul to end within ‘24 to 36 hours’, defence sources say

Exclusive: small window for RAF flights evacuating those at risk after Johnson fails to convince Biden to extend deadline

www.theguardian.com

what a fucking mess

 

[Humberto]

"No no... it was a worthwhile success because there hasn't been another 9/11." Is pretty much the only argument they have to proffer.

 

[Humberto]

By the way, the country is looking at a massive drought and food shortage problem.

Afghanistan could start to run out of food by September, UN warns

World Food Programme calls for urgent aid as chaos of Taliban takeover and second drought in three years create dire humanitarian situation

www.theguardian.com

 

[spring-peeper]

UK evacuation from Kabul to end within ‘24 to 36 hours’, defence sources say

Exclusive: small window for RAF flights evacuating those at risk after Johnson fails to convince Biden to extend deadline

www.theguardian.com

what a fucking mess

Canada is saying it will be staying after the 31st of August.

 

[Yossarian]

Canada is saying it will be staying after the 31st of August.

Trudeau said Canada would be staying beyond the 31st "if at all possible," his office later said it would not be possible if US forces leave as planned.

A PMO spokesman later clarified that the prospect of Canadian Forces' remaining in Kabul beyond Aug. 31 is contingent on the extension of the U.S. military presence, and that Canada would not remain in Afghanistan after the U.S. pulled out its troops.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-johnson-biden-kabul-evacuation-g7-1.6151786

 

[spring-peeper]

Trudeau said Canada would be staying beyond the 31st "if at all possible," his office later said it would not be possible if US forces leave as planned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-johnson-biden-kabul-evacuation-g7-1.6151786

Ah - thanks for that

Initially, I'd included that I'm highly suspicious of coming from the liberals - it's election time.
But I deleted it.
meh

 

[spring-peeper]

This issue seems to be on repeat..

Canadians left to fend for themselves in Taliban-controlled Kabul as U.S. troops again turn Afghans away

While other nations ferry their people out of Kabul, Canadian evacuees forced into Taliban-controlled streets for another failed rescue

torontosun.com

And again, the Toronto Sun has learned American soldiers continue to turn away Canadian evacuees, preventing them from getting to safety.

Another would-be evacuee, an Afghan citizen whose service with the Canadian military earned him safe passage out of Kabul, told the Sun he was brutally beaten by Taliban fighters waiting for evacuees to arrive at the hotel.

He said that while the United States, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany are transporting their evacuees to their planes via buses, Canadian officials continue to expect their evacuees — regardless of their mobility or health — to make their way through Kabul’s dangerous streets to safety.

Trudeau may very well lose this election.

 

[A380]

Well yes, but surely they could say, give us two more weeks or we'll bomb the fuck out of you?

Man-portable air-defense system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wouldn’t stop the bombing of rocks but could stop transports taking off.

 

[A380]

The Taliban haven't beaten the US and the UK, they've won because the US has basically just decided to give up, The Taliban have won by basically not dying. And of course they were always going to come out on top precisely for that reason.
If the US had decided not to pull out then none of this would have happened now but it would still have happened 5 or 10 or 20 years from now

War is the application of violence to achieve your policy objectives. You ‘win’ if your ability, which includes willingness, to expend blood and treasure exceeds your desire to stop fighting that war. You are beaten if yhe other side’s ability and willingness exceeds yours.

We, I include myself as I think I aligned more with the views of the UK government than with the Taleban, we’re beaten. To pretend otherwise is to fail to learn the lessons of Germany in the 20s and 30s and, ironically America post Vietnam.

 

[Sprocket.]

Of course America has previous for leaving those who helped them in the lurch. So has most of the NATO countries.
In Vietnam it is believed over 30,000 South Vietnamese citizens were killed because of lists of CIA informants records left in the US embassy in Saigon.
Hopefully they have disposed of anything similar in Kabul.

Well looks like they are on the point of doing it again!

‘An enormously valuable trove’: America’s race against Afghan data

Having seized Kabul, the Taliban can tap into government databases and communications data to go after U.S. allies who don’t get out.

www.politico.com

 

[krtek a houby]

Because America is slowly returning to an isolationist state. They used to have proper enemies for the population to hate, since the collapse of the Soviet Union and no one to fill the void, they just hate each other.

They sure as hell don't like China.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Well looks like they are on the point of doing it again!

‘An enormously valuable trove’: America’s race against Afghan data

Having seized Kabul, the Taliban can tap into government databases and communications data to go after U.S. allies who don’t get out.

www.politico.com

Ffs, I honestly can’t fathom how the Americans managed to f**k this up in such a big way.

Isn’t it common sense that they’d destroy all this stuff, evacuate our allies, and oh I don’t know, not leave behind billions of dollars of military equipment before pulling the troops out? It’s f***ing bizarre

 

[gosub]

The Taliban haven't beaten the US and the UK, they've won because the US has basically just decided to give up, The Taliban have won by basically not dying. And of course they were always going to come out on top precisely for that reason.
If the US had decided not to pull out then none of this would have happened now but it would still have happened 5 or 10 or 20 years from now

The Taliban didn't win it endured

UK US went to war against terror and found it to be a tough enemy. No matter how many rounds they fired, bombs they dropped, people named and killed terror seemed to just linger in the air

 

[Pickman's model]

I assume they've still got special forces there. The SAS is still there (according to the Mail ) The yanks have fucked this up but I assume they've still got a wee bit of leverage.

Wedding parties and funerals to be avoided then

 

[weltweit]

So 6 days to go until the closing of the Kabul airport anomaly.

6 days to get more people out, assuming they can get through the checkpoints to the airport.

Probably 5 days considering the soldiers have to be evacuated, probably last.

 

[Sprocket.]

Chased out of town by drug dealers.

 

[seventh bullet]

Of course America has previous for leaving those who helped them in the lurch. So has most of the NATO countries.
In Vietnam it is believed over 30,000 South Vietnamese citizens were killed because of lists of CIA informants records left in the US embassy in Saigon.
Hopefully they have disposed of anything similar in Kabul.

The terror unleashed not just upon the Communist underground but other political and civil groups, even before American army boots were on the ground, which was facilitated by such informants? The result was tens of thousands imprisoned, tortured and executed, often on the flimsiest information.

 

[brogdale]

People pay to access this copy.

 

[Sprocket.]

The terror unleashed not just upon the Communist underground but other political and civil groups, even before American army boots were on the ground, which was facilitated by such informants? The result was tens of thousands imprisoned, tortured and executed, often on the flimsiest information.

Exactly, what goes around comes around. Total waste of lives.

 

[Humberto]

Chased out? Yes I agree.

What are we looking at for those left behind after the 31st August? And how many of those will there be?

Nato countries have been occupying for 20 years as we all know, but there has to be some responsibility to the people of Afghanistan. Severe drought has been reported and I'd like to hear some kind of overtures towards international cooperation to address this problem. It was a Nato occupation and a Nato backed government. I don't want it to become the status quo that the country is anathema because it is now controlled by the Taliban. It would be irresponsible when there is potentially a really serious situation.

Practically then? Keep diplomatic channels of communication open. Nato governments to take some responsibility for the mess they have largely created. And the public to hold them to account.