Taliban [Afghanistan] destroy music

[ItWillNeverWork]

so what you're saying is jesus got things wrong

Or maybe the church got Jesus wrong

 

[Pickman's model]

Or maybe the church got Jesus wrong

which church?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

which church?

The one's that got him wrong

 

[Pickman's model]

The one's that got him wrong

that'd be all of them then

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

that'd be all of them then

Since year dot Christianity has had such a diversity of opinion as to who Jesus was that it doesn't really make sense to talk about that religion being a single thing. The current range of Christian denominations is a drop in the pool of how many different Christianities there have been.

 

[Pickman's model]

Since year dot Christianity has had such a diversity of opinion as to who Jesus was that it doesn't really make sense to talk about that religion being a single thing. The current range of Christian denominations is a drop in the pool of how many different Christianities there have been.

yeh i am familiar with the history of christianity and did know that the marcionites, the cathars, bogomils and so on have disappeared.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

yeh i am familiar with the history of christianity and did know that the marcionites, the cathars, bogomils and so on have disappeared.

Unfortunately guns, swords, persecutions and inquisitions have a way of dominating those groups that are more peaceful and egalitarian. The point above regarding the small number of Jains, etc, sadly reflects this truth in the present age.

Here's an interesting snippet of the sort of debates going on from the 2nd century onwards (not necessarily for yourself, but for anyone else interested in the topic):

Marcellina was an early Christian Carpocratian religious leader in the mid-second century AD known primarily from the writings of Irenaeus and Origen. She originated in Alexandria, but moved to Rome during the episcopate of Anicetus (c. 157 – 168). She attracted large numbers of followers and founded the Carpocratian sect of Marcellians. Like other Carpocratians, Marcellina and her followers believed in antinomianism, also known as libertinism, the idea that obedience to laws and regulations is unnecessary in order to attain salvation. They believed that Jesus was only a man, but saw him as a model to be emulated, albeit one which a believer was capable of surpassing. Marcellina's community appears to have sought to literally implement the foundational Carpocratian teaching of social egalitarianism.

Women played prominent roles in many early Christians sects as prophets, teachers, healers, missionaries, and presbyters.[3] Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany were female followers of Jesus who are mentioned in the gospels and were believed to know the "mysteries" of the kingdom of God.[2] Women like Mary and Martha were the explicit role models for Marcellina and her fellow female preachers.[2] A creed that may have been recited at Christian initiation ceremonies is quoted by the apostle Paul in Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."[4] In the late first century, Marcion of Sinope (c. 85 – c. 160) appointed women as presbyters on an equal basis as men.[3]

In the second century, the Valentinians, a Gnostic sect, regarded women as equal to men.[3] The Montanists regarded two prophetesses, Maximilla and Prisca, as the founders of their movement.[3] Female religious leaders like Marcellina were not favored by orthodox theologians, who accused them of madness, unchastity, and demonic possession.[2] The Church Father Tertullian (c. 155 – c. 240) complained: "These heretical women—how audacious they are! They have no modesty; they are bold enough to teach, to engage in argument, to enact exorcisms, to undertake cures, and, it may be, even to baptize!"[3] He denounced one female religious leader in North Africa as "that viper".[3]

 

[Sasaferrato]

There don't seem to be many female pastors at those evangelical Protestant megachurches in the US and elsewhere.

No, there don't. However, there is no Muslim cleric who is not male, anywhere.

Those US establishments... not sure if they are all Christian, many are more like cults.

But yes, 'religion' has and is being used to control people.

 

[Yossarian]

No, there don't. However, there is no Muslim cleric who is not male, anywhere.

Those US establishments... not sure if they are all Christian, many are more like cults.

But yes, 'religion' has and is being used to control people.

"Islam is not a faith," Catholicism is an unevolved version of Christianity, and you're not sure if American megachurches are Christian - where do you stand on Hinduism?

 

[Sasaferrato]

"Islam is not a faith," Catholicism is an unevolved version of Christianity, and you're not sure if American megachurches are Christian - where do you stand on Hinduism?

Don't know much about it. I find the polytheist aspect interesting, much as the Trinity myriad aspects of the same entity.

 

[Aladdin]

Religion
Politics
Media

All are used to control people becausw cunts are everywhere.
Nice people are everywhere too...they just dont get heard or seen

Thats my one and tuppence

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Religion
Politics
Media

All are used to control people becausw cunts are everywhere.
Nice people are everywhere too...they just dont get heard or seen

Thats my one and tuppence

You forget money

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Banning music is fucking barmy. Apparently in Iran women aren't allowed to sing because it's considered immodest.

Religious bigotry is illogical and vile.

 

[Aladdin]

You forget money

True.

 

[Aladdin]

Banning music is fucking barmy. Apparently in Iran women aren't allowed to sing because it's considered immodest.

Religious bigotry is illogical and vile.

Fucked up...isn't it?
Very sad

 

[klang]

In a bid to rid Yemen of all its music in the 1920s, Imam Yahya simply banned musical instruments. This lead to innovations that to this day sets Yemeni music apart from other Arabic music.
A humble copper plate ('sahn') played with thimbles being the most prominent one.

 

[StoneRoad]

I still don't understand what Islam has against music, I mean in the general sense, I'm not dividing up into sacred and secular.

Christianity - at least, in general - has been a great patron of the sacred music - eg The Halleluiah Chorus from Handel's "Messiah" ...

 

[Pickman's model]

I still don't understand what Islam has against music, I mean in the general sense, I'm not dividing up into sacred and secular.

Christianity - at least, in general - has been a great patron of the sacred music - eg The Halleluiah Chorus from Handel's "Messiah" ...

has it? which church commissioned that then?

and the issue with music is not general within islam just as icons are accepted in some strains of christianity and abominated in others Islamic music - Wikipedia

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

has it? which church commissioned that then?

He said in general

 

[Pickman's model]

He said in general

yeh only christianity did not commission the messiah. i thought that your example might be something where the work was commissioned for the glory of god if not eg the pope

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

yeh only christianity did not commission the messiah. i thought that your example might be something where the work was commissioned for the glory of god if not eg the pope

No one claimed it did. StoneRoad said "Christianity - at least, in general - has been a great patron...". A general category cannot be a patron in the literal sense. So the word 'patron' was clearly used in a figurative way to mean 'Christianity has inspired a lot of music' or something similar.

 

[Pickman's model]

No one claimed it did. StoneRoad said "Christianity - at least, in general - has been a great patron...". A general category cannot be a patron in the literal sense. So the word 'patron' was clearly used in a figurative way to mean 'Christianity has inspired a lot of music' or something similar.

yeh that's your reading of it but perhaps let stoneroad fight their own battles eh. telling you're not commenting on the islam music thing, you know, the actual subject of this thread. rather you're doing your damndest to drag it off topic

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

yeh that's your reading of it but perhaps let stoneroad fight their own battles eh.

You're no fun

 

[Pickman's model]

You're no fun

so you've fuck all to contribute on the issue of islam and music.