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A frank discussion about feminist, marxist and racist *ahem* race ideology etc.

You surely don't mean that the fields are sloganeering?

Probably not, but I think we're talking at cross-purposes again. :confused:

Now that I've figured out what you meant, no. That 'Conjuring Race' article makes it very clear what meanings it is giving to the terminology used, right from Barbara Field's first paragraph.

Apols to everyone else for the slight derail...
 
Now that I've figured out what you meant, no. That 'Conjuring Race' article makes it very clear what meanings it is giving to the terminology used, right from Barbara Field's first paragraph.

Apols to everyone else for the slight derail...
So was this the order of play? I read and then post an article. You criticise the article. Then you read it?
 
Bit of a mea culpa regarding making assumptions based on usernames is probably in order - I assumed Winifred was female until this thread. :oops:

Someone mistook me for a man on another thread only yesterday. Am I, was I bovvered? :D
What infuriated me here was not the assumption per se, but 1. it's use (by someone who thinks being black is having that in one's head all of the time rather than being reminded of the fact by a wider society in attempts to exclude) to undermine something I said about my own self at the same time as ignoring the wider point of "negotiation" I made in that same assertion and 2. the audacity in implying I couldn't use whatever name I wanted without undermining my identity; both compounded later by 3. I could only have been lying. That was a bastard thing to do.
 
See that's why your opinions are dangerous within an online discussion forum, because you misrepresent what 'racism' really is. You aimed at my way before when you implied that my assuming your username was an association of race, was in itself an example of racism. Then by representing your difficulties and challenges in life re: your own self identity also amounts to 'racism' (in your eyes).


What you're basically doing is subverting the meaning of racism into a catch all concept. So that idiots like Pickman's model can jump on the PC bandwagon and cry foul, or giving the real racists the licence to discredit such claims on the basis of, "well we can't really say anything if it's directed at a person of colour".


Real racism is the discrimination and oppression towards another based on the perceived 'race'. To claim that I've acted towards you in this way is inherently wrong and dangerous re: sending out the message of what racism really is.


Be honest, if with no one else, at least your own self. If my life experience, which I exposed in the RD thread as lived and living evidence that race was far removed from culture, didn't provide such evidence you'd probably not have got so mad at me... and that's why you started this thread and diminishing my life experience in an effort to dismiss my claim and using my nickname to undermine a point I made about "negotiation". You wouldn't have done all of that if I were white or hadn't told you I was identificated as black. I asked you at some point what was it that gave your judgement of how I identify priority or higher value than my own. You conveniently ignored the question. We go back to the beginning of this thread. You were dishonest in your premise and you persist on being dishonest. I'm more than entitled to question your motives because you have yourself provided grounds for your own motives to be questioned. But I also think that, like Dolezal, you probably don't even realise it. However, that doesn't mean I'll suffer your "unwitting" abuse with the usual "forbearance" that is expected of me as a black person.

Don't talk to me of real racism. I've grown up watching my mum and my aunts, on Christmas reunions, grading each other's and us, girls, hair quality according to straightness. That's an instance of black on black racism with strong class undertones of the same ilk that had Eddie Murphy throw that "Monique and Unique" line that makes so many people laugh. My mum berated me more harshly for blacking myself further by exposure to the sun than when I conducted experiments with pure alcohol (which resulted in my burning a carpet) or mercury (which I could only get by breaking thermometers). Now I'm 39 yrs old. My sister is only three years younger than me. She can't stand being black. The criticism she's got about the current leader of the so called socialist party in Portugal is not that he's more or less socialist or anything substantial like that. It's always "Well, he's black, innit!?" That's racism at its most perniciously virulent by someone with the self-awareness of a piranha (about the same as your own come to think of it).

I have no patience with her and for the same reason I have no patience with you. However, don't presume I don't understand your idealistic line either. It's noble, if nothing else. But it has no place at this point in history. I grew out of it by, I don't know, 19 or whenabouts. It's naive in that it makes no room for what actually happens in the real world - an example of which you've splashed out in this very thread by your own very self in your attitude toward the lived experience I testify to and which you have yet to even recognise. If I own my lived experience you can use it to undermine my claims just as every fucking racist bastard I've ever encountered. If I don't mention I deny myself my own living voice on an issue that affects and has affected me all of my life. The fact you haven't got that through that head of yours just puts you in the same bracket as Dolezal.

Don't expect me to see you as any more than a little racist twit with just about the same level of awareness of the old ladies in my local WI, who, in the 2010s, still live in the old days of Empire, and are still surprised that I walk upright ("Oh I love the way you walk. Did you attend ballet classes as a youngster?") and can hold a cup of tea, after you're called out on something and you insist in ignoring it. I regard you in the same way I regard those "who are not racists" but "I've given up on calling my friend out on the racist stuff they say about blacks!". You'd have me cower in the face of your "unwitting" racism under the guise of "frank debate" and I should just take it? Why? Because I'm black? Fuck off!

http://smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3784

Push the red button for the punchline
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