Hamas - influences, ideology etc

[Riklet]

Important to note that Hamas are essentially an offshoot or development of Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood groups and charities. These were not initially focused on armed struggle etc but on more religious stuff, charity, community work etc. So there is a civil base to the armed group's activities.

It's also significant because obviously Egypt is run by a regime fiercely opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood, since the coup in 2013. They are battling an Islamist insurgency in Sinai that almost certainly plays a role in some of Hamas' arms smuggling and I'm sure their reluctance to open the border at all is partly fear of losing control of a fairly precarious situation in Egypt (think PLO in Lebanon in the 80s).

I think there is definitely some distance from Iran ideologically. Hizbullah too. They are closer to Qatar and Wahabi Islam in the gulf really. But obviously Hamas is a pragmatic organisation and takes help and support where it can get it, while maybe toning down their views on some issues (e.g. the Syrian Revolution in 2011, when they initially backed the protestors and the Islamist groups against Assad).

 

[PTK]

Some screenshots from the videos live streamed by Hamas where they were using the maps in the plans found on their bodies.

And were these documents dated 2022, as has been claimed? I am not doubting that Hamas was planning this for a long time, but I am sceptical that the captured documents prove this.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Important to note that Hamas are essentially an offshoot or development of Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood groups and charities. These were not initially focused on armed struggle etc but on more religious stuff, charity, community work etc. So there is a civil base to the armed group's activities.

It's also significant because obviously Egypt is run by a regime fiercely opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood, since the coup in 2013. They are battling an Islamist insurgency in Sinai that almost certainly plays a role in some of Hamas' arms smuggling and I'm sure their reluctance to open the border at all is partly fear of losing control of a fairly precarious situation in Egypt (think PLO in Lebanon in the 80s).

I think there is definitely some distance from Iran ideologically. Hizbullah too. They are closer to Qatar and Wahabi Islam in the gulf really. But obviously Hamas is a pragmatic organisation and takes help and support where it can get it, while maybe toning down their views on some issues (e.g. the Syrian Revolution in 2011, when they initially backed the protestors and the Islamist groups against Assad).

Yes, this is definitely important to understanding how Hamas gained support in Gaza. Fatah are corrupt. Hamas started social programmes that Fatah never bothered with, too busy lining their own pockets.

 

[phildwyer]

obviously Hamas is a pragmatic organisation and takes help and support where it can get it

Is there any evidence that Hamas receives support from Iran?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Is there any evidence that Hamas receives support from Iran?

Almost like no evidence that Wagner received support from Russia; until it became obvious.

 

[phildwyer]

Almost like no evidence that Wagner received support from Russia; until it became obvious.

It's a genuine question, to which I do not know the answer. Of course I know that Iran supplies Hizbollah, but Hamas are Sunni.

So is there in fact any evidence suggesting that Iran supplies Hamas?

 

[JimW]

It's a genuine question, to which I do not know the answer. Of course I know that Iran supplies Hizbollah, but Hamas are Sunni.

So is there in fact any evidence suggesting that Iran supplies Hamas?

How Iran’s Missile Strategy has Rewritten the Rules of Middle Eastern Wars Posted this in the other thread.

 

[CNT36]

It's a genuine question, to which I do not know the answer. Of course I know that Iran supplies Hizbollah, but Hamas are Sunni.

So is there in fact any evidence suggesting that Iran supplies Hamas?

You take this religion stuff a little more seriously than fundamentalist regimes and groups it would seem.

 

[phildwyer]

How Iran’s Missile Strategy has Rewritten the Rules of Middle Eastern Wars Posted this in the other thread.

Very interesting, thanks. It seems they're expanding the Resistance beyond the Shia Crescent. It can't be easy for them to work with Sunnis though. As the article puts it, Hamas are the "distant cousins" of the family....

 

[phildwyer]

You take this religion stuff a little more seriously than fundamentalist regimes and groups it would seem.

The Iranians take it seriously alright, so I presume their proxies do as well. Not sure about Hamas, who follow a different creed in any case.

 

[CNT36]

The Iranians take it seriously alright, so I presume their proxies do as well. Not sure about Hamas, who follow a different creed in any case.

Yes, that different creed seems more important to you than the rulers of Iran who are happy to provide support to the likes of the SAA, the Taliban, Al qaeda and of course Hamas when it is in their perceived interests.

 

[phildwyer]

Yes, that different creed seems more important to you than the rulers of Iran who are happy to provide support to the likes of the SAA, the Taliban, Al qaeda and of course Hamas when it is in their perceived interests.

Hang on a second, you think Iran provided support to al Qaeda?

 

[Riklet]

Is there any evidence that Hamas receives support from Iran?

Are you joking Phil?

Only like the past 15 years of Iranian weapons being intercepted. Same rocket technology as Iran has given Hizbullah. Drones. Iranians meeting Hamas abroad. The list goes on.

Why wouldn't Iran support them? They might not totally match ideologically but they very much suit the Iranian regimes geopolitical interests. Much more than any Arab country at present.

 

[phildwyer]

Are you joking Phil?

Only like the past 15 years of Iranian weapons being intercepted. Same rocket technology as Iran has given Hizbullah. Drones. Iranians meeting Hamas abroad. The list goes on.

Why wouldn't Iran support them? They might not totally match ideologically but they very much suit the Iranian regimes geopolitical interests. Much more than any Arab country at present.

I accept that, having read the article JimW posted.

But I'm surprised they can bring themselves to support Sunni guerillas, because of their religious differences--they traditionally attack the "near enemy" first and have been fighting Sunnis throughout the Middle East for 40 years. Perhaps they are now capable of subordinating theology to realpolitik.

 

[CNT36]

Hang on a second, you think Iran provided support to al Qaeda?

Parts of it yes. It is all a bit murky. Zarqawi being the best known member. He was for a time given sanctuary in Northern Iran after fleeing Afghanistan. Some were encouraged to preach and recruit in Iran and Iran were happy to allow fighters to go from Iran to Iraq with some reports that the border was open to them in both directions. Iran was also willing to use them essentially as hostages for trading with the US and Kurdish groups.

 

[phildwyer]

Parts of it yes. It is all a bit murky. Zarqawi being the best known member. He was for a time given sanctuary in Northern Iran after fleeing Afghanistan. Some were encouraged to preach and recruit in Iran and Iran were happy to allow fighters to go from Iran to Iraq with some reports that the border was open to them in both directions. Iran was also willing to use them essentially as hostages for trading with the US and Kurdish groups.

I thought they chucked them all prison. But who knows what goes on among the Assembly of Experts? Some of them seem to have their own independent ideology and power bases, and the state probably turns a blind eye when it suits them.

 

[Riklet]

I accept that, having read the article JimW posted.

But I'm surprised they can bring themselves to support Sunni guerillas, because of their religious differences--they traditionally attack the "near enemy" first and have been fighting Sunnis throughout the Middle East for 40 years. Perhaps they are now capable of subordinating theology to realpolitik.

Interesting article about Hamas' support and the rift with Hizbullah and Iran, which was significant.

Since 2014 there seems to have been significant reconciliation. And the Iranians dont need to just send guns, they can get those elsewhere, but Im sure the drones and logistics and intel and training and cyber warfare stuff they provide is what makes a real difference.

In the end the Iranian regime and the IRG are less focused in ideological differences than on ensuring Iran's dominance and even survival in the middle east. Hamas crossed a line when they supported groups against Assad... but that doesnt meant 10 years later theyre still on the naughty step.

 

[Riklet]

I thought they chucked them all prison. But who knows what goes on among the Assembly of Experts? Some of them seem to have their own independent ideology and power bases, and the state probably turns a blind eye when it suits them.

Threre was a really interesting Al Jazeera documentary about this when Suleimani got whacked. He was a key part of the Iranian stratrgy in 2003. He had significant experience of Iraqi Kurdistan and other areas he had been based before and was the main figure in leading the IRG abroad.

Essentially, the Iranians were pleased by (the rammifications to) 9/11 as it meant that their enemies were now getting targeted by the US. They provided significant intel on the Taliban and Afghanistan to the US. And then Bush did his Axis of Evil speech and it all went to shit. The Iranians were amazed and offended and channelled resources into Shia groups and other anti-US groups thinking they could well be next.

Suleimani went to Iraq in 2003 and almost immediately established extremely effective and destructive guerrilla techniques. He basically invented the "barrel charge" IED they started using and which caused big American casualties. I'm not so sure about direct assistance to Al Queda, I dont know anything about that. But the North of Iran is Kurdish (and more Sunni I think?) so they may have looked the other way with some characters that passed by there.

The documentary made it seem like this was the biggest blunder the Americans made in the past 30 years with Iran. And was basically unforgiveable. Things havent much changed since and in retrospect it probably was a massive fuck up that ensured American defeat in Iraq, the civil war in Iraq and the victory of the Shia groups eventually.

To link this to Hamas.. it is all part of the Iranian regimes serious fear that they will be next. The US and Israel both want them gone so they pursue peace and "stability" via a highly aggressive status quo. Think Hamas, Yemen, Hizbullah, Syria, Iraq. And they are not stupid... it has worked to a point.

 

[phildwyer]

The documentary made it seem like this was the biggest blunder the Americans made in the past 30 years with Iran. And was basically unforgiveable. Things havent much changed since and in retrospect it probably was a massive fuck up that ensured American defeat in Iraq, the civil war in Iraq and the victory of the Shia groups eventually.

Yes. It's almost as if American foreign policy was not being conducted in the interests of the USA but served another power.

 

[CNT36]

Threre was a really interesting Al Jazeera documentary about this when Suleimani got whacked. He was a key part of the Iranian stratrgy in 2003. He had significant experience of Iraqi Kurdistan and other areas he had been based before and was the main figure in leading the IRG abroad.

Essentially, the Iranians were pleased by (the rammifications to) 9/11 as it meant that their enemies were now getting targeted by the US. They provided significant intel on the Taliban and Afghanistan to the US. And then Bush did his Axis of Evil speech and it all went to shit. The Iranians were amazed and offended and channelled resources into Shia groups and other anti-US groups thinking they could well be next.

Suleimani went to Iraq in 2003 and almost immediately established extremely effective and destructive guerrilla techniques. He basically invented the "barrel charge" IED they started using and which caused big American casualties. I'm not so sure about direct assistance to Al Queda, I dont know anything about that. But the North of Iran is Kurdish (and more Sunni I think?) so they may have looked the other way with some characters that passed by there.

The documentary made it seem like this was the biggest blunder the Americans made in the past 30 years with Iran. And was basically unforgiveable. Things havent much changed since and in retrospect it probably was a massive fuck up that ensured American defeat in Iraq, the civil war in Iraq and the victory of the Shia groups eventually.

There was a BBC one that sounds pretty much the same.

ETA it was called Shadow Commander probably online somewhere.

 

[editor]

Yes. It's almost as if American foreign policy was not being conducted in the interests of the USA but served another power.

And what other power would that be, oh YouTube king of secret, inside knowledge. Please! Spit it out! Name names.

 

[phildwyer]

And what other power would that be, oh YouTube king of secret, inside knowledge. Please! Spit it out! Name names.

Burkina Faso.

 

[editor]

Burkina Faso.

What the fuck are you on about? Why would American foreign policy be serving Burkina Faso?

 

[phildwyer]

What the fuck are you on about? Why would American foreign policy be serving Burkina Faso?

Sankara's tentacles reach beyond the grave.

 

[editor]

Sankara's tentacles reach beyond the grave.

Oh fuck off, You're now banned from this thread for pathetic piss weak trolling and if you carry on with your ME ME ME disruption you'll be kicked off the site.

I'm getting fed up reading reported posts about your childish antics and your obvious anti semitism.

 

[Knotted]

This may be of interest

What is Hamas’s armed wing, the Qassam Brigades?

Gaza-based Qassam Brigades has been waging an armed resistance against Israeli occupation since its founding in 1992.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Looks very interesting from the FT

https://archive.ph/2023.10.31-162409/https://www.ft.com/content/913d366e-0ace-4463-a004-d293aa49c673

Military briefing: How Hamas fights​

(Unpaywalled link).

 

[PTK]

I don't want to look back over all this thread, to see if this has been dealt with, but I would be very grateful if someone would be kind enough to address the following question:

Is Hamas actually anti-Jewish? According to Wikipedia, its charter of 1988 contains Judeophobic passages, but these were deleted in the new charter issued in 2017, but never formally repudiated.

Whatever the answer to the question, there is absolutely no justification for the crimes against humanity that have been inflicted upon the people of the Gaza Strip in the past three months, and we must all continue to campaign for an immediate ceasefire.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't want to look back over all this thread, to see if this has been dealt with, but I would be very grateful if someone would be kind enough to address the following question:

Is Hamas actually anti-Jewish? According to Wikipedia, its charter of 1988 contains Judeophobic passages, but these were deleted in the new charter issued in 2017, but never formally repudiated.

Whatever the answer to the question, there is absolutely no justification for the crimes against humanity that have been inflicted upon the people of the Gaza Strip in the past three months, and we must all continue to campaign for an immediate ceasefire.

many people might say that issuing a new charter was formally repudiating the objectionable passages