A celebration of Feminism - as a female what has it meant for you?

[8ball]

I'm terribly ignorant about feminist theory. Which is probably why I'm so annoyingly positive about everything. I need to read something, I know.

Or you could skip the reading list, drink half a bottle of whisky every night for a month, and then stop abruptly.

 

[Poot]

Or you could skip the reading list, drink half a bottle of whisky every night for a month, and then stop abruptly.

I know I'm being thick here. Where's that from?

I mean, it sounds more fun tbh...

 

[8ball]

I know I'm being thick here. Where's that from?

I mean, it sounds more fun tbh...

It's what a psychiatrist told me once about what he said when he was teaching students about dealing with depressed patients - he said that's all you need to do to learn everything you'll ever need to know about depression from a patient's perspective.

So there's a pretty good chance it will stop you being so annoyingly positive about everything.

 

[Poot]

It's what a psychiatrist told me once about when we was teaching students about dealing with depressed patients - he said that's all you need to do to learn everything you'll ever need to know about depression from a patient's perspective.

So there's a pretty good chance it will stop you being so annoyingly positive about everything.

Ah. Oh no, I have children for that. So also no money for whisky.

But actually it's 100% what I have planned for when they leave home so I'll report back.

(Did he actually say that )

 

[8ball]

Ah. Oh no, I have children for that. So also no money for whisky.

But actually it's 100% what I have planned for when they leave home so I'll report back.

(Did he actually say that )

That’s what he claimed he said when teaching the youngling medics. Makes sense, though.

 

[campanula]

I'm terribly ignorant about feminist theory. Which is probably why I'm so annoyingly positive about everything. I need to read something, I know.

I doubt this is as important as a simple awareness of our actual lived experiences, tbh. While it is useful to be able to construct a theoretical framework to explore the inequalities and injustices in our political and social landscape, Feminism, in fact all organised solidarity, comes from a place of recognition, empathy and respect for our common experiences...and we really do not need a theoretical overview to condemn violence, silencing, and denigration.

On top of which, the language of theory can be elitist and exclusive..

 

[Poot]

I doubt this is as important as a simple awareness of our actual lived experiences, tbh. While it is useful to be able to construct a theoretical framework to explore the inequalities and injustices in our political and social landscape, Feminism, in fact all organised solidarity, comes from a place of recognition, empathy and respect for our common experiences...and we really do not need a theoretical overview to condemn violence, silencing, and denigration.

I hope so. I catch myself sounding ignorant often, but I do enjoy hearing other women's experiences which vary from mine. Often there's another way of looking at things that I hadn't considered. And this is very, very important, because my own life experiences are wildly different from those of other women and are quite sheltered.

 

[Gramsci]

I've been reading Bell Hooks and a theme I pick up from her work is that using lived experience, common experience and trying to base soliditary on these isn't enough.

Women's lived experiences are varied and lead to different bases for solidarity. An example she uses is the social unit that is the family. Heavily criticised in second wave feminism. ( correctly imo given the time). But for Black Americans the family can be a basis of support in a racist society. Peoples lived experiences lead them to different conclusions. Setting aside whether theory is elitist. When people construct from their own lived experience it doesn't lead to same conclusions.

I feel theory gets given a hard time. Theory is usually written in opposition to societies norms.A lot of theory of society is a critique.

 

[Poot]

I've been reading Bell Hooks and a theme I pick up from her work is that using lived experience, common experience and trying to base soliditary on these isn't enough.

Women's lived experiences are varied and lead to different bases for solidarity. An example she uses is the social unit that is the family. Heavily criticised in second wave feminism. ( correctly imo given the time). But for Black Americans the family can be a basis of support in a racist society. Peoples lived experiences lead them to different conclusions. Setting aside whether theory is elitist. When people construct from their own lives experience it doesn't lead to same conclusions.

Isn't enough for what? Surely it's a start. Does the opinion of a man who reads feminist theory trump the opinion of a woman who lives it every day?

 

[Gramsci]

Isn't enough for what? Surely it's a start. Does the opinion of a man who reads feminist theory trump the opinion of a woman who lives it every day?

I was using Bell Hooks. I think I was using her work correctly. So I was basing my post on her reflections. I was not "trumping" her opinions. As a Black American Feminist she has a lot to say about lived experience From her perspective. Worth reading.

What Bell Hooks is trying to do is see how solidarity can put together across a range of different life experiences.

You might not agree with her. That's your right. I'm not trying to trump anyone's opinions here.

 

[Poot]

I was using Bell Hooks. I think I was using her work correctly. So I was basing my post on her reflections. I was not "trumping" her opinions. As a Black American Feminist she has a lot to say about lived experience From her perspective. Worth reading.

What Bell Hooks is trying to do is see how solidarity can put together across a range of different life experiences.

You might not agree with her. That's your right. I'm not trying to trump anyone's opinions here.

I know, I was talking about her opinion - sorry I didn't make it clear. I would be surprised if she thought that a lived experience had no value at all, though. I can see that I'm going to have to read her.

 

[campanula]

I've been reading Bell Hooks and a theme I pick up from her work is that using lived experience, common experience and trying to base soliditary on these isn't enough.

Women's lived experiences are varied and lead to different bases for solidarity. An example she uses is the social unit that is the family. Heavily criticised in second wave feminism. ( correctly imo given the time). But for Black Americans the family can be a basis of support in a racist society. Peoples lived experiences lead them to different conclusions. Setting aside whether theory is elitist. When people construct from their own lived experience it doesn't lead to same conclusions.

I feel theory gets given a hard time. Theory is usually written in opposition to societies norms.A lot of theory of society is a critique.

Ah, when I went to uni as a mature student, I had been a feminist (activist) for 15 years...so naturally, I envisaged getting my teeth into feminist theory - not just my experience as a wc white woman. I was baffled, bemused, often a bit humiliated and frequently bored. Sussex was in the grip of post-modernism and much of it was obscure, cultish - only the 2 terms of economics was worse. I am not a thicko and I had felt I had a relatively sound understanding of Marx, Weber, Foucault and I am the first to bring up the bad workperson blames their tools but, I dunno, I found I really couldn't give much of a fuck about the female gaze, jouissance, bricollage: and the writing was unbelievably opaque, knowing, painfully self-conscious, just awful. More than likely it's just me (I am just as dense when confronted with the impenetrable mysteries of the computer or mobile phone). Unsurprisingly, after graduating (although I got a first), I signed up to ag. school for a few years of horticulture...so, yeah, theory is/was a bit exclusive and unneccessarily vague.

Plus, I am convinced that solidarity and recognition can embrace differences because of the commonalities. Feminism is not, and never has been, a monolith.

Honestly compels me to add - it might just be because I am lazy. Nonetheless, 'Feminism for the 99%' landed on the doormat on Monday - a nice little 96 page pamphlet which, so far, has readable clarity.

 

[Gramsci]

quotes didn't work.

 

[Gramsci]

Ah, when I went to uni as a mature student, I had been a feminist (activist) for 15 years...so naturally, I envisaged getting my teeth into feminist theory - not just my experience as a wc white woman. I was baffled, bemused, often a bit humiliated and frequently bored. Sussex was in the grip of post-modernism and much of it was obscure, cultish - only the 2 terms of economics was worse. I am not a thicko and I had felt I had a relatively sound understanding of Marx, Weber, Foucault and I am the first to bring up the bad workperson blames their tools but, I dunno, I found I really couldn't give much of a fuck about the female gaze, jouissance, bricollage: and the writing was unbelievably opaque, knowing, painfully self-conscious, just awful. More than likely it's just me (I am just as dense when confronted with the impenetrable mysteries of the computer or mobile phone). Unsurprisingly, after graduating (although I got a first), I signed up to ag. school for a few years of horticulture...so, yeah, theory is/was a bit exclusive and unneccessarily vague.

Plus, I am convinced that solidarity and recognition can embrace differences because of the commonalities. Feminism is not, and never has been, a monolith.

Honestly compels me to add - it might just be because I am lazy. Nonetheless, 'Feminism for the 99%' landed on the doormat on Monday - a nice little 96 page pamphlet which, so far, has readable clarity.

My partner read the 99% pamphlet and liked it.

Impressed you got a First despite the difficulties on the course.

Its unfortunate that Feminist academy went this way.

My education is patchy. I did do course in feminist theory a very long time ago. Bit before it went all about language.

Its unfortunate as Feminism could have altered the academy. My old tutor was from Marxist Feminist background plus social research. She was fair about what was called then Radical feminism.

Going back to remember. Her view was that second wave Feminism was rooted in lived experience. It wasn't abstract theory. Parallels with Marx. Changing the world is the point not dry theorising.

I think her view was that potentially Feminism in academia could break down boundaries between different disciplines. ( social research, anthropology, literature etc)

So theory could have a material basis not just be elitist. Which would have been good for everyone. Why Feminism isn't just a niche thing.

So Feminism did have potential to change academia to being less elitist and more relevant to ordinary people.

But from what you say this didn't happen.

 

[campanula]

I grew up during 2nd wave feminism and struggled to engage with third wave theorists. Honestly, Luce Irigaray...just couldn't keep my eyes on the page. I am not a reliable witness as to what did or didn't happen across academia...but the whole cross disciplinary thing was in pretty full flood. Sussex, at that time, was split into 'schools' so you had to do your major (mine was initially psychology but I decamped after a few months to history) as well as school courses (I was in culture and community studies), which tended to be somewhat more esoteric (Shamanic consciousness, British film in the 50s, gentrification and town planning, Sexual dissidence and humour...sorta stuff. I got a first because it was nearly all course work, and I found I could churn out amusingly sarcastic essays in which I either shamelessly pandered to lecturers agendas or wildly disputed every word. I was on a bit of a 3 year skive (with a grant!) after years of drearily hard work and parenting so writing a handful of essays and reading books was really not very onerous. I used to proof read some of my course mates stuff and it was desperately dull and earnest, especially the ones straight from school, so not terribly difficult to get decent marks (if you are idle and cunning). I enjoyed myself quite a lot, to be fair.Horticulture school was just more aversion to hard work but I found I bloody loved it.

 

[sojourner]

It's bell hooks, btw, no capitalisation - it was a deliberate choice. Surprised you didn't pick up on that Gramsci

 

[JudithB]

Quite apart from your post having no relevance apart from personal antipathy, I definitely recall some recent anger at messing with people's user names. While JudyB is not significantly different to JudithB, I think it is only fair if the same rules apply across the board.

Yeah don't mess with my user name!

 

[JudithB]

Don't expect logic or reasoned thought from JudyB. She is too busy roaring.

I've been away so long and also I've been melting as I am sure we all have, that I've quite forgotten what illogical unreasoned thoughts I might have typed.

 

[JudithB]

Hi I'm only dipping back in again quickly as have promised the family I will not post somewhere where the kids see me called a cunt.

Poot you never come across as thick. You are one of the most astute people I have come across on these boards



Point of my post - would any women be interested in starting a reading group?

I think you all know I believe we don't learn enough about feminist theory. Not all of it is turgid I promise you. There is a pdf online if you dig around of Feminism for the 99%. Also Deb Cameron's Feminism isn't very expensive and is an excellent introduction to a lot of the main concepts.

We could hold our discussions via zoom call or similar. Or we could hold our discussions here. I think I could persuade the family I wont be called anything we don't want the kids reading if we were only discussing books.

 

[TopCat]

Hi I'm only dipping back in again quickly as have promised the family I will not post somewhere where the kids see me called a cunt.

Poot you never come across as thick. You are one of the most astute people I have come across on these boards



Point of my post - would any women be interested in starting a reading group?

I think you all know I believe we don't learn enough about feminist theory. Not all of it is turgid I promise you. There is a pdf online if you dig around of Feminism for the 99%. Also Deb Cameron's Feminism isn't very expensive and is an excellent introduction to a lot of the main concepts.

We could hold our discussions via zoom call or similar. Or we could hold our discussions here. I think I could persuade the family I wont be called anything we don't want the kids reading if we were only discussing books.

Who called you a cunt?

 

[JudithB]

Who called you a cunt?

andysays

 

[Pickman's model]

andysays

to be fair you've been called a cunt twice. and only once by andysays. perhaps you should change your rule to be something along the lines of promising the family that you won't post anywhere where you might appear a dishonest or indeed transphobic low wretch?

Hi I'm only dipping back in again quickly as have promised the family I will not post somewhere where the kids see me called a cunt.[...] I think I could persuade the family I wont be called anything we don't want the kids reading if we were only discussing books.

how often have your kids seen you called a cunt on this or other websites and why do you think that it's beyond the pale?

 

[Santino]

to be fair you've been called a cunt twice. and only once by andysays. perhaps you should change your rule to be something along the lines of promising the family that you won't post anywhere where you might appear a dishonest or indeed transphobic low wretch?
how often have your kids seen you called a cunt on this or other websites and why do you think that it's beyond the pale?

You really are a horrible person.

 

[Pickman's model]

You really are a horrible person.

you're something of a shit yourself, santino, making allegations and never supporting them.

 

[andysays]

I can confirm that I have previously referred to JudithB as a 'dishonest transphobic cunt'

If she's really that concerned about her kids reading posts where she's referred to in that way, maybe she should consider not posting like a dishonest transphobic cunt

Edited to add the word 'dishonest'

 

[nyxx]

Use of the word cunt as an insult is misogynistic.
And unimaginative.

 

[Pickman's model]

Use of the word cunt as an insult is misogynistic.
And unimaginative.

it's so over-used as to lose almost all force

 

[ginger_syn]

Use of the word cunt as an insult is misogynistic.
And unimaginative.

Agree with this, all genitalia based insults male and female are mostly dull though sometimes they can be beautifully placed in an argument and there are times when its the only respoose that will fit, I like using twazzock, its non specific and quite satisfying to say.

 

[TopCat]

You really are a horrible person.

Nah he is great, a nice, thoughtful, decent man.

 

[TopCat]

Use of the word cunt as an insult is misogynistic.
And unimaginative.

Do you refer to men as dicks?