A celebration of Feminism - as a female what has it meant for you?

[Cloo]

For a long time I didn't call myself feminist, only because I thought I wasn't 'worthy' of it and didn't know enough about it. And for a long time I'll admit I drifted along in the belief that everything was sorted now and women had all the rights we needed because I personally didn't feel I'd experienced any. I was cocooned by a privileged background, I worked in a very female-centred industry, I didn't get much harassment from guys.

It was social media that actually piqued my awareness in the last 10 years and made me realised how much sexism is still endemic in culture and how I had been shaped by certain expectations of women, and how much crap is pushed on children about gender roles. I guess that's the main level where I engage - I am really pleased it is starting to have an effect and more places (but too slowly) are ditching 'girl' and 'boy' labels (Clarks shoes seem to have done this now), and to see more girls and women taking leads in children's and other TV and films. Because this shit really matters. If girls know 50%ish of people are female, but see 90% of protagonists are male, it tells them they are secondary, background, a 'helpmeet'. If kids see thing targeted at 'girls' or 'boys', being rules-led, they will start to see thing as only 'allowed' for girls and boys and what starts with toys ends with career choices and so forth. I saw a lot of this as a shorthaired 'tomboy' child who had to tell my peers constantly there was no such thing as 'boys' toys' etc. But obviously, being a child, I didn't really generalise this beyond myself!

I have certainly got angrier lately - there is no doubt it my mind that society is still beholden to damaging narratives about women (irrational, untrustworthy, morally weak) that profoundly affect how we are treated, and we must fight to change them. And obviously ones goes from that to the narratives we have about other people who aren't straight, white men.

 

[JimW]

Hey ladies (and gents to some extent) when did you first become aware of feminism?

And when did you read your first feminist text or book on the subject?

I can remember hearing about women burning bras and of course Greenham Common. But I don't think I read anything you could consider a feminist text or even feminist literature (I may have and not made the connection) until I was at Uni.

I am very much of opinion that feminism needs to be taught in schools and may start speaking to some people who could help lobby for this. Was it ever taught at your school as a subject or within a subject?

Was definitely "aware" previous but fairly vague but then got involved with Cruisewatch that included a lot of interaction/cooperation with the women at Greenham and learned an enormous lot then that really woke me up on various levels.

 

[JudithB]

Social media definitely brought the ugliness in the world out of the shadows. I would not say into the light because there is still a whole generation before us who are not aware as much as we are what lurks within.

I am sure all the parents on this forum, because they seem very canny, are aware of lettoysbetoys.org.uk and letclothesbeclothes.co.uk

There was that powerful picture a few years ago that shot around social media wherein they had removed all the books from the kids library shelves that had a male protagonist and out of those left most of the stories were about princesses waiting to be saved. There were one or two that showed girls in all their complexities.

Cloo do you remember learning anything about feminism at school?

 

[Cloo]

Only about the suffragettes - as I said, I didn't recognise the more recent/current side of it all until much more recently.

 

[Manter]

That triggered an early memory - some talk about bra burning.

And also talking to my Mum about it and her giving the example of women wanting equal pay. It flabbergasted me at the time that pay for the same job would be different (then again when I was a kid I thought it weird that different jobs got paid different amounts at all). There was a whole battery of arguments floating about (I can't remember them now, maybe if I rack my brains...), about why it was correct that a man be paid more. Early 80s, this was.

Re: Greenham Common I was in a minority in the house for being broadly against blowing up the whole world, though I think my Mum approved of them and kept quiet on the subject for familial harmony reasons.

Arguments were all about men needing to support a family iirc. And insinuations that women shouldn’t really be encouraged into the employment market because that would take jobs off men who really needed them.

Still see articles in the likes of the telegraph about how women doctors are a timebomb for the NHS as they’ll <<gasp>> have children

 

[Baronage-Phase]

If you ask me what being a woman has meant to me? I will say that it has been a learning curve in dealing with unfairness and losing out on promotions because of my sex. It has meant not being as strong physically as I would like to be. It has meant getting extremely emotional at times when I would rather not have.

It has also meant that I have experienced natural highs that were exhilerating.

Feminism has made life somewhat better. I was able to study physics, applied maths and chemistry. I was able to go to college and graduate with 2 degrees. It had meant that I can work and have rights that my grandmother didnt have...in some cases rights my mother didnt have.

There is still so much to do though so that girls growing up today live a better life.

 

[JudithB]

Only about the suffragettes - as I said, I didn't recognise the more recent/current side of it all until much more recently.

You're a mum aren't you Cloo. Would you agree feminism needs to be taught in schools?

 

[8ball]

Arguments were all about men needing to support a family iirc. And insinuations that women shouldn’t really be encouraged into the employment market because that would take jobs off men who really needed them.

Still see articles in the likes of the telegraph about how women doctors are a timebomb for the NHS as they’ll <<gasp>> have children

Yeah that was definitely a lot of it. Got a nagging feeling there were some other angles too, but that might just be the noise of distant brain cells dying of old age...

 

[JudithB]

Slight aside as I would still love to hear how and when in their lives people got to hear about feminism so please do post

If feminism had been taught to you in school, do you think it would have changed your perception of the world and if so in what way?

I grew up with lots of younger siblings but one older brother and when things went a bit squiffy in the family home it was expected that I would take on the maternal role, whereas my older brother got to study and go to one of the best universities in the country (I didn't do too bad, but had to take a break before, and that's for another thread).

If I had learned feminism from an early age perhaps I would have had the knowledge to question why it was falling to me and not my brother (and me) to take on the extra load.

 

[Cloo]

You're a mum aren't you Cloo. Would you agree feminism needs to be taught in schools?

I certainly think there needs to be discussions early on about gender roles. Never thought about teaching feminism - it would be a hard thing to get on the curriculum unfortunately as no one would be able to agree on what sort of feminism to teach! But I'd say discuss roles, I'd say teach everyone that having equality legislation does not mean everyone is equal now and sexism, racism etc is over. 90% of the battle is against the entrenched bullshit and people's attitude.

 

[JudithB]

I certainly think there needs to be discussions early on about gender roles. Never thought about teaching feminism - it would be a hard thing to get on the curriculum unfortunately as no one would be able to agree on what sort of feminism to teach! But I'd say discuss roles, I'd say teach everyone that having equality legislation does not mean everyone is equal now and sexism, racism etc is over. 90% of the battle is against the entrenched bullshit and people's attitude.

That is a great idea. I do not know what they teach in secondary school as part of social studies. But it must be taught earlier.

Even the history of feminism and a brief precis of the different waves would be something. We stop at the Pankhursts as if the battle was won. I did not know that my mother was unable to get a mortgage without her father's signature. That it was legally ok to rape a wife until a few decades ago. We have only very recently in the history of humankind been granted any kind of respect or freedoms. Girls especially need to know this and who fought to change the old status quo.

 

[Cloo]

And I also think that it's not emphasised enough just how important birth control and access to abortions are for women's autonomy and equality. Not talking about it means that people's first 'encounter' with abortion is some taboo, shocking, shameful thing and not a really important, impactful thing for women and wider communities.

 

[JudithB]

And I also think that it's not emphasised enough just how important birth controe isl and access to abortions are for women's autonomy and equality. Not talking about it means that people's first 'encounter' with abortion is some taboo, shocking, shameful thing and not a really important, impactful thing for women and wider communities.

You are so right and do you think tied to that is also teaching boys how to make condoms work for them? Boys and men are the reason there are unwanted pregnancies as much as females. Girls need to be taught not to be coerced into sex without protection because boys do not know which condoms or how to fit a condom to make it work for them.

And there is so much about female biology that we do not learn until we experience it. I am sure we would have a very small show of hands if we asked women if they knew one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage before they had a miscarriage.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Of course! I studied history at school too to A Level. Yes Emmeline Pankhurst and poor Emily Davison. I do not remember learning much more than this. Can you remember what they taught you?

My A level was post 2WW - formation of the EEA, Cold War etc.

The thing I remember most was the way they were treated in prison. The force feeding and the so-called "Cat and Mouse" Act.

 

[JudithB]

The thing I remember most was the way they were treated in prison. The force feeding and the so-called "Cat and Mouse" Act.

I am being taught so much more than I had remembered. I must google Cat and Mouse Act

 

[8ball]

Wow.

Prisoners (Temporary Discharge for Ill Health) Act 1913 - Wikipedia

 

[Cloo]

And there is so much about female biology that we do not learn until we experience it. I am sure we would have a very small show of hands if we asked women if they knew one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage before they had a miscarriage.

Yes, I literally found this out months before we started trying to conceive, just before I turned 30! It really should be more widely taught because if women don't know that they panic that something must be horribly wrong when it happens, when sadly it's quite normal. I was glad I knew when I went to GP after I had a positive test and had this almost comically horrible locum (female) who causually dropped in the comment 'Of course, so many miscarry at this stage' - that could have been really distressed by that if I hadn't know and had been of a more nervous disposition.

 

[JudithB]

Wow.

Prisoners (Temporary Discharge for Ill Health) Act 1913 - Wikipedia

I only learned about this last year at a talk given by Lucienne Boyce at an event I went to last year. Horrific isn't it.

The Bristol Suffragettes – Lucienne Boyce

 

[JudithB]

Yes, I literally found this out months before we started trying to conceive, just before I turned 30! It really should be more widely taught because if women don't know that they panic that something must be horribly wrong when it happens, when sadly it's quite normal. I was glad I knew when I went to GP after I had a positive test and had this almost comically horrible locum (female) who causually dropped in the comment 'Of course, so many miscarry at this stage' - that could have been really distressed by that if I hadn't know and had been of a more nervous disposition.

It's a fine line to walk. Would too many women become distressed with this knowledge? I would have preferred to have known. I felt much less alone when I did.

 

[Cloo]

I just think in the current climate of conception paranoia (honestly I think women, esp in their 30s, are made way too stressed about conceiving before they even try) it would help to know because otherwise a woman who miscarries thinks 'This must indicate I have some terrible problem that means I'll never have a baby/I've left it too late', rather than understanding that making a baby is so complicated that only one tiny bit of the 'code' to make them needs to go wrong for it not to work out, and that's not uncommon.

 

[sojourner]

If feminism had been taught to you in school, do you think it would have changed your perception of the world and if so in what way?

It would have given me validation of what I was feeling and experiencing at a much younger age, and made me feel a hell of a lot less isolated. If I hadn't gone back to school as a mature student, I probalby wouldn't have discovered the existence of all the different feminisms, or been able to express myself as well, or had that academic back up to my lived experience, or had the tools to pass on to my own daughter to fight her own battles.

Maybe it would also have helped the boys to have a better realisation of what we face, too.

 

[JudithB]

Maybe it would also have helped the boys to have a better realisation of what we face, too.

I remember a first feminism lecture at Uni and a lot of the young men giggled the whole way through the lecture and the seminar afterwards.

 

[sojourner]

I remember a first feminism lecture at Uni and a lot of the young men giggled the whole way through the lecture and the seminar afterwards.

Did they get any better?

I remember almost launching myself across the desks at one young fella in uni who reckoned a character in one of the books we were reading had deserved to be raped.

 

[chilango]

If feminism were to be taught at schools it'd be a completely tame, recuperated version with no challenge to capitalism in it.

 

[Cloo]

It's interesting that I never really noticed the lack of representation of women in entertainment etc when I was a kid, and when I did I kind of just accepted that you just got the single token woman. Bringing our daughter up to be aware of this stuff has been interesting and sometimes sad because she spots all that bullshit immediately.

Also notable that in discussions with son (only 7) is that he assumed asking for more women means asking for EVERYONE to be female. We have explained that's not the case, but that he has the excuse of being 7 unlike the sort of allegedly adult man who sobs that having only 87% straight, white male representation rather than 90% means that THEY are trying to make everyone a black gay woman these days.

 

[JudithB]

Did they get any better?

I remember almost launching myself across the desks at one young fella in uni who reckoned a character in one of the books we were reading had deserved to be raped.

One of the feistier young women shouted at them in the bar. Stating they wouldn't giggle through a lecture on racism and so why did they think they could when it involved another oppressed group? Most looked rather sheepish. Others were rude to her. Someone tried to argue it wasn't the same iirc.

 

[JudithB]

It's interesting that I never really noticed the lack of representation of women in entertainment etc when I was a kid, and when I did I kind of just accepted that you just got the single token woman. Bringing our daughter up to be aware of this stuff has been interesting and sometimes sad because she spots all that bullshit immediately.

Also notable that in discussions with son (only 7) is that he assumed asking for more women means asking for EVERYONE to be female. We have explained that's not the case, but that he has the excuse of being 7 unlike the sort of allegedly adult man who sobs that having only 87% straight, white male representation rather than 90% means that THEY are trying to make everyone a black gay woman these days.

I didn't notice the lack of representation but I remember being frustrated that it always seemed to be the woman who fell over and sprained her ankle during a chase scene. Reese Witherspoon articulates the same thing better than I

 

[Treacle Toes]

I keep reading this thread and wanting to contribute but am just too bloody exhausted!

I am feeling more than a little worn out by the manipulations and projections of the patriarchy at present, evident on here and in my everyday life away from the boards. I look back at my life and it's all too familiar, nothing new as they say.

I suppose the greatest gift feminism has given me is the language to be able to position/articulate/analyse my experiences of being female as well as a 'sisterhood' of relatives, friends, acquaintances/strangers that have fought and continue to fight for all of us. So, at times like now when I am feeling a bit battered by the onslaught I dig deeper, I feel held by history and the present, I know I can influence the future, I refuse to give in.

 

[sojourner]

One of the feistier young women shouted at them in the bar. Stating they wouldn't giggle through a lecture on racism and so why did they think they could when it involved another oppressed group? Most looked rather sheepish. Others were rude to her. Someone tried to argue it wasn't the same iirc.

Same old same old then.

 

[Cloo]

I suppose feminism has given me the gift of teaching my daughter that she doesn’t just have to resign herself to anything because she’s a woman. My mum is a forceful and forthright woman but nonetheless I think she did rather take the line that ‘this is just how things are, you just have to shrug and get on with it’. Similarly that I will raise my son to really think about his attitudes to women and his privileges as a man. We haven’t gone into beyond things like characters on TV yet, but when he’s ready for more, we will be talking to him about it as that’s just as important as talking to girls about it.