"49 up" on tonight at 9pm

[Espresso]

Did he get a scholarship to public school? Or did he come from money?

 

[elbows]

Well thats two weeks in a row that viewers have been confronted by women who weren't afraid to complain loudly about what the harm the political/economic situation has done, and to point at politicians. Last weeks was ruined in propaganda terms by the fact that after talking about the disability cuts that would affect her, she had a go at the non-disabled benefits 'scroungers'. This weeks didn't suffer from that sort of thing, but her story was probably more powerful in previous series when cuts were eliminating her job working with kids. But she got to make a point that all the political parties had moved to the right, a complaint which does not get enough attention on the telly.

 

[marty21]

that barrister one - said he knew two ministers and knew them when he was a kid - I'm thinking Andrew Lansley maybe one, he is 56, or Andrew Mitchell - also 56 or Oliver letwin, also 56 or Dominic Grieve, also 56

actually I haven't a clue who there are, there are more 56 year old ministers than I thought there would be

 

[Thora]

FFS - "there isn't a class system because Mother had to get a job to pay for me to go to a public school and eventually become a QC"

 

[Epona]

Have there, though? I'm not sure who that would be. There's Sue the working class Londoner, but she's an administrator, not a barrister or Guardian section head.

I wasn't talking about people on the show - I was saying that there may have been a tiny handful in the UK over the last 56 years, but it's not a general upward socially mobile trend and I think the programme illustrated that fairly well - I just think you misunderstood that I was talking wider than the show itself.

 

[danny la rouge]

OK, I see now.

 

[butchersapron]

Did he get a scholarship to public school? Or did he come from money?

How does either situation effect things?

 

[danny la rouge]

Did he get a scholarship to public school? Or did he come from money?

Nick? I don't remember a scholarship being mentioned. Only that he was brought up on a farm in the Dales, going to the local primary school, then off to boarding school, before going to Oxford.

The point is that only 7% of people in England go to private school (that's including public schools, private schools, boarding and non boarding). Now look at the make up of the British elite. That 7% is vastly over represented. 70% of government ministers since the war have been privately educated. I don't know the figures for how many went on scholarships.

 

[danny la rouge]

Just found this, btw. Not read through it yet, but thought it might be of interest.

http://www.pbs.org/pov/film-files/pov_49up_action_discussion_file_0.pdf

 

[Ms Ordinary]

IIRC Nick got a scholarship to boarding school (I've been watching a few of the early programmes on youtube, not sure if they mentioned it in the current one). From the way he described it, he was encouraged by a teacher in the village school from really early on - I wonder if it was the same one that put him up for the 7-up programme in the first place?, his brothers stayed on the farm, I think. So his move away from his background was maybe more about the effect one single teacher can have, than about social mobility generally.

He also said when he was at Oxford, he remembered another student saying "I didn't realise someone with your accent could be intelligent".

 

[butchersapron]

The point is surely that oxford and the private school exist not that one individual from a w/c background passed through it/them though?

 

[Ms Ordinary]

The point is surely that oxford and the private school exist not that one individual from a w/c background passed through it/them though?

Yes, and he's a precise example of what Epona described:

but I don't think there's ever been much social upward mobility - sure there have been a few success stories of "humble folk making good", but that is only a few people highlighted to give the rest of us drones hope

 

[danny la rouge]

He also said when he was at Oxford, he remembered another student saying "I didn't realise someone with your accent could be intelligent".

I remember that comment. It was in one of the earlier ones. I wish they'd reshow them on TV.

 

[butchersapron]

FFS - "there isn't a class system because Mother had to get a job to pay for me to go to a public school and eventually become a QC"

Is there an overt counter-argument to this from the other participants?

 

[redsquirrel]

I wasn't talking about people on the show - I was saying that there may have been a tiny handful in the UK over the last 56 years, but it's not a general upward socially mobile trend and I think the programme illustrated that fairly well - I just think you misunderstood that I was talking wider than the show itself.

But you're simply incorrect, the level of social mobility has changed markedly from 1945 to the present day.

 

[Plumdaff]

But you're simply incorrect, the level of social mobility has changed markedly from 1945 to the present day.

Yes, in that there is far less social mobility now than when this programme began.

 

[rioted]

Yes, in that there is far less social mobility now than when this programme began.

Oh dear. In order to change reality, you must first be able to recognize it.

 

[Thora]

Is there an overt counter-argument to this from the other participants?

When they interviewed the other public schoolboy (Andrew I think? He was a solicitor) they obviously asked him the same question about class and he did acknowledge there was a class system and that he had benefitted from it.

 

[butchersapron]

Ta, what about the three w/c girls/women - never broached openly, just left there, not mentioned sort of thing?

(and why do only the posh kids get to be asked about class)

 

[Thora]

Ta, what about the three w/c girls/women - never broached openly, just left there, not mentioned sort of thing?

(and why do only the posh kids get to be asked about class)

I don't remember if they were explicitly asked about class - one was asked about her job (a senior admin person at a university) and the fact that she'd never been to university. Another was asked about her daughters, and whether they went to university (they didn't) and how she felt about it.

 

[butchersapron]

Ta again.

 

[Plumdaff]

Oh dear. In order to change reality, you must first be able to recognize it.

Pardon? You think there is more social mobility now than in the 1960s? It isn't me who needs lessons in reality.

 

[phildwyer]

Ta again.

Why don't you just watch the bloody thıng?

I just caught up on the 56 Up one. The amazıng thıng to me ıs the total lack of class mobılıty. And the other ıs the way theır personalıtıes seem fıxed by the age of 7, just as the Jesuıts saıd. The only exceptıon ın both cases ıs Neıl--somethıng seems to have got a bıt broken ın hıs head ın hıs late teens, whıch I suppose happens to quıte a few people.

Apart from that though, ıt does seem that very early chıldhood determınes destıny for lıfe. As the parent of a 2 year-old ıt certaınly made me thınk.

 

[danny la rouge]

Michael Apted has died, so I guess that’s the end of the run.

 

[clicker]

Thats sad. You could tell how genuinely fond he was of all the children/adults , and they of him.
I think they'd be due to do another one in 5 years. I hope they find a way to continue. But they could never replace the warmth and connection he had with those interviewed. It would seem a shame though to stop .
Brilliant telly.

 

[alsoknownas]

Nice pic:

 

[tim]

Michael Apted has died, so I guess that’s the end of the run.

An impressive legacy, in a usually ephemeral medium.

 

[ska invita]

downloading the whole UP series now. only ever caught snippets

 

[clicker]

downloading the whole UP series now. only ever caught snippets

You're in for a real treat.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

That'll be a weird watch, seeing them all in one go rather than every few years.