"49 up" on tonight at 9pm

[butchersapron]

That's a bit of sociological pretension to get the programme commissioned when television had loftier ambitions. But its nothing resembling a scientific sample to draw any conclusions about the nature of class.
So no I don't feel shallow by taking an interest in them as individual personalities.

It's what Aptsed the main director has maintained and argued throughout was the point, not just a passing ruse - that's pretty insulting to the the people who kicked off and ran the thing from the start.

I wouldn't dare to call it scientific nor to call you shallow - i just wondered how this ascept of their journey was now presented in modern terms. Whether it had become about the individuals or whether the class aspect has disappeared or appeared in other forms.

 

[Part 2]

I'm finding it a bit boring tbh

 

[Espresso]

What I think is interesting is that all of them - this week and last week - were twits and/or gits at 21. Right enough, him last week with his "I only came back to do this programme to promote my music" might still be one or the other, but for the most part, most of us are at our twittiest and gittiest at that age, because we think we absolutely know it all and anyone who doubts our immense wisdom and overall cooly grown up and modern knowledge is a foooool, an oldy and a feeble old sod.
I know I thought I had all the answers then, whereas a few more years of geting smacked round the chops by life has taught me a bit of sense.

 

[clicker]

The class aspect was mentioned tonight by the woman who was originally perhaps earmarked as the one to fly high.... she didnt follow the academic path carved out for her at age 7, and has maintained a cynically healthy regard for the programme, describing herself as having a strange loyalty to it.

I think so far most of the individuals have not 'turned out' as they were expected to, if indeed such an expectation ever existed, based purely on their birth right and I agree it probably did. They have bettered themselves through hard work and succeeded in the main by their own hand. Illness being the great leveller has been a barrier that has proven the most ungiving.

I think it has become a journey of individuals now on the whole, I've been watching it forever, but for those coming to it recently the class slant wouldn't be so relevant. If anything I think the assumptions it may have hoped to prove are being misproven.

 

[butchersapron]

The class aspect was mentioned tonight by the woman who was originally perhaps earmarked as the one to fly high.... she didnt follow the academic path carved out for her at age 7, and has maintained a cynically healthy regard for the programme, describing herself as having a strange loyalty to it.

I think so far most of the individuals have not 'turned out' as they were expected to, if indeed such an expectation ever existed, based purely on their birth right and I agree it probably did. They have bettered themselves through hard work and succeeded in the main by their own hand. Illness being the great leveller has been a barrier that has proven the most ungiving.

I think it has become a journey of individuals now on the whole, I've been watching it forever, but for those coming to it recently the class slant wouldn't be so relevant. If anything I think the assumptions it may have hoped to prove are being misproven.

Ta. Thanks for the reply

 

[Part 2]

I'd really like to see the 7up and 14up 2000 programs but I can't seem to find them anywhere.

 

[metalguru]

Enjoyed the second part a lot more. I think the people were more engaging or interesting this week.

 

[marty21]

I'd really like to see the 7up and 14up 2000 programs but I can't seem to find them anywhere.

most of them are on youtube

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I'm recording it as Secret Millionaire looks interesting

 

[danny la rouge]

The class aspect was mentioned tonight by the woman who was originally perhaps earmarked as the one to fly high.... she didnt follow the academic path carved out for her at age 7, and has maintained a cynically healthy regard for the programme, describing herself as having a strange loyalty to it.

I think so far most of the individuals have not 'turned out' as they were expected to, if indeed such an expectation ever existed, based purely on their birth right and I agree it probably did. They have bettered themselves through hard work and succeeded in the main by their own hand. Illness being the great leveller has been a barrier that has proven the most ungiving.

I think it has become a journey of individuals now on the whole, I've been watching it forever, but for those coming to it recently the class slant wouldn't be so relevant. If anything I think the assumptions it may have hoped to prove are being misproven.

It was interesting the take that that woman had (I forget her name...maybe Suzy?). She was from landed gentry, and went to boarding school. She suggested that the programme had set out to show the class differences, but thought it had failed in her case and that the attempt was in any case "wrong". (I think she meant morally). However, although she hasn't had an exulted career path (she was a bereavement councillor), we weren't told the career of her husband. And they definitely seem affluent. I seem to remember from previous programmes that her husband was a solicitor in Bath.

I think she was wrong to think the programme's hypothesis on class was wrong in her case. We weren't given long on her view, but I suspect she has skewed ideas about what "successful" means.

Another one featured last night was Symon. He was the mixed-race guy who was brought up in care; his single mother suffered from depression. He has been a forklift truck driver in warehouses for many years. He's clearly intelligent, and at one time refers to a hope at one time he (or others on his behalf) had that he may become an accountant. He says his perceptions of office jobs put him off that path. He puts a lot of energy into being a - clearly very good on the evidence of those he's helped - foster parent.

It isn't possible to do a statistically sound study of the kind someone earlier in the thread longed for. A programme following 1,000 children would be a very different type of thing. As it is we have a programme following 14 people. What we'd hope for is interesting qualitative results. And on the whole I think that is what we get.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'd like to add on a more shallow note, that the posh woman has aged very well. She now reminds me of Jenny Agutter.

 

[metalguru]

I'd like to add on a more shallow note, that the posh woman has aged very well. She now reminds me of Jenny Agutter.

And she seemed to have shaken off the depression that you could see hanging over her in the years 7 - 28.

 

[danny la rouge]

And she seemed to have shaken off the depression that you could see hanging over her in the years 7 - 28.

Yes. The chain-smoking and looking at the floor.

 

[youngian]

The short length is jarring and it would of fitted modern TV perfectly for having a companion website and having extra versions like Big Brother or that Essex crap.
But it is as if ITV treats this as a burden that it can't quite shake off. And an embarrasing reminder that the channel hasn't always churned out endless shite.

 

[London_Calling]

I agree with that. Was left with a sense that, given the wealth of personal material and social change, it could be so very much better. It must be quite difficult to make it this bland.

 

[butchersapron]

It isn't possible to do a statistically sound study of the kind someone earlier in the thread longed for. A programme following 1,000 children would be a very different type of thing. As it is we have a programme following 14 people. What we'd hope for is interesting qualitative results. And on the whole I think that is what we get.

Just to clarify on this again - i wasn't hoping the program did this, i was simply wondering given the findings of the actual longitudinal cohort studies that upward social mobility has ground to a halt and the emphasis placed on this class-investigation of the program at the start and during the post-war height of social mobility whether this aspect was still being focused on in the most recent films or had been quietly dropped - and if the latter what this says about both todays society and the people making the series today.

 

[London_Calling]

It seems to have lost direction - we're in the world of 'and this, dear new wife, is where i went school /uni. My! That was a long time ago'.

 

[youngian]

And is Apted the best man for the job, yes he has an emotional investment but in interviews he almost makes it sound like a burden that takes him away from plush Hollywood career. He is a fine feature film director which requires traits that would do not make you a natrual interviewer. And I get the feeling he's rubbed a few of the participants up the wrong way.
I'm sure there are plenty of producers and interviewers (Louis Theroux springs to mind) who have watched this with great admiration and passion through their lives who could make a better programme and take it off ITV's moribund hands.

 

[danny la rouge]

Just to clarify on this again

No, I wasn't meaning you. It was someone in an exchange with you.

eta: Youngian, who said "it's nothing like a scientific sample". No, it isn't, but it shouldn't be.

 

[paulhackett]

And is Apted the best man for the job, yes he has an emotional investment but in interviews he almost makes it sound like a burden that takes him away from plush Hollywood career. He is a fine feature film director which requires traits that would do not make you a natrual interviewer. And I get the feeling he's rubbed a few of the participants up the wrong way.
I'm sure there are plenty of producers and interviewers (Louis Theroux springs to mind) who have watched this with great admiration and passion through their lives who could make a better programme and take it off ITV's moribund hands.

There'd be no irony after today's comments by Nick Clegg, in having Louis Theroux (friend of Nick Clegg), taking over and focussing the programme on social mobility.. Apted is fine, I think, inasmuch as there's bound to be friction between the subjects and the programme (makers, interviewer). Apted will have a team of researchers feeding the questions in anyway..

I would have preferred if there was a summary programme at the start of the series, an overview, and more time for each person. A couple of extra hours of film at least. If it's bland, then maybe that's a boon? It's simply showing people's lives as they are. They can't all have had obviously dramatic lives?

 

[danny la rouge]

There'd be no irony after today's comments by Nick Clegg, in having Louis Theroux (friend of Nick Clegg), taking over and focussing the programme on social mobility.. Apted is fine, I think, inasmuch as there's bound to be friction between the subjects and the programme (makers, interviewer). Apted will have a team of researchers feeding the questions in anyway..

I would have preferred if there was a summary programme at the start of the series, an overview, and more time for each person. A couple of extra hours of film at least. If it's bland, then maybe that's a boon? It's simply showing people's lives as they are. They can't all have had obviously dramatic lives?

Agree with that. Furthermore, the Yorkshire farmboy who is a friend of the ex-chainsmoker made the point quite well that the programme isn't so much about creating a narrative of their individual lives, but about a longitudinal study of lives.

What would someone else say about you or me to the age we are now? The things we might (understandably) think are missed out given the time constraints might not be what others see as relevant anyway.

 

[Schmetterling]

The beer probably didn't help but I get very confused at times as to who is who. I could do with the names and years in the screen all the time.

 

[youngian]

I wonder what Neil was writing that no-one was interested in reading, perhaps its the new Lib-Dem manifesto.

 

[danny la rouge]

I wonder what Neil was writing that no-one was interested in reading, perhaps its the new Lib-Dem manifesto.

Masturbation, apparently.

 

[redsquirrel]

I'm sure there are plenty of producers and interviewers (Louis Theroux springs to mind) who have watched this with great admiration and passion through their lives who could make a better programme and take it off ITV's moribund hands.

Fuck off! Louis fucking Theroux isn't worthy to lick the shit from Apted's shoes. A shallow stupid prick of the first order.

in having Louis Theroux (friend of Nick Clegg),

I didn't think I could have a lower opinion of Theroux, but this has done it. Thanks for the info.

 

[Epona]

Just to clarify on this again - i wasn't hoping the program did this, i was simply wondering given the findings of the actual longitudinal cohort studies that upward social mobility has ground to a halt and the emphasis placed on this class-investigation of the program at the start and during the post-war height of social mobility whether this aspect was still being focused on in the most recent films or had been quietly dropped - and if the latter what this says about both todays society and the people making the series today.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your point - but I don't think there's ever been much social upward mobility - sure there have been a few success stories of "humble folk making good", but that is only a few people highlighted to give the rest of us drones hope - this country's primary industries have just switched from mining, docks, and car manufacture to what is seen as the more white-collar occupation of call centres, low level office admin etc. which they tell us are 'middle class' so many of us have apparently risen a notch on the scale, but those are just the new factories and assembly lines, there's nothing about working for minimum wage in a call centre or office that is in any way more socially upwardly mobile than more traditional blue-collar industries.

This upward mobility certainly isn't happening right now - I can imagine it may have been touted as a possibility in the era when this program was started, but I question whether there ever was any sort of heydey ever - sure we've seen periods of time with more job security, better pay, less unemployment, and better collective bargaining rights for those in the lower socio-economic brackets than exists at the moment, but there's never been that much in the way of working class Joes being able to rise through the ranks and be truly upwardly mobile, it's largely just a myth, telling us that if we work hard we can all end up wealthy, and I call bollocks. So I suspect that aspect has been quietly dropped, because to focus on it would show that it's largely bollocks - I know you know that, but yeah there's little focus on that now in terms of what we're seeing in the programme.

 

[alsoknownas]

Yes, it's a bit less profound now, as you suspect that the overall shape of their lives has been broadly revealed now. Still, I can't see myself ever wanting to miss it ("Oooh, it's 105up tonight on the holi-visor. Oh, they're only doing one episode, and a shortened one at that...").
As for it being boring, well I find that strangely re-assuring - at least they're not trying to spice it up for effect. I like that it's this weird unique slice of life.

 

[danny la rouge]

sure there have been a few success stories of "humble folk making good"

Have there, though? I'm not sure who that would be. There's Sue the working class Londoner, but she's an administrator, not a barrister or Guardian section head.

 

[Espresso]

Have there, though? I'm not sure who that would be. There's Sue the working class Londoner, but she's an administrator, not a barrister or Guardian section head.

What about the man from last week whose name escapes me who grew up on a farm in Yorkshire and when he was 7 he wanted to "learn about the moon and that"? He went to Oxford and ended up with a PhD and went to work in America as an academic.

 

[danny la rouge]

What about the man from last week whose name escapes me who grew up on a farm in Yorkshire and when he was 7 he wanted to "learn about the moon and that"? He went to Oxford and ended up with a PhD and went to work in America as an academic.

He went to public school and Oxford.