39 dead in lorry container in Essex, October 2019

[Mr.Bishie]

This is actually an excellent point, there are plenty of people such as drivers and warehouse workers who have to clamber about in the back of these things for perfectly legitimate reasons. No matter how robust a company's attitude to H&S is there is always the possibility that someone will get trapped.

But the point that was made, is that workers can’t get trapped inside warehouse fridges/freezers cos those compartments can be opened from the inside now due to H&S legislation! And warehouse workers don’t need to ‘clamber around’ in chiller trailers as they’re loaded by forklift.
Not sure what this has to do with people smuggling tbh?

 

[MrSki]

They are padlocked and sealed on the outside for customs purposes.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

They are padlocked and sealed on the outside for customs purposes.

Yes, we know that.

 

[MrSki]

Yes, we know that.

So making them be able to open from the inside would mean that one person could stow away & when parked up, open it up from the inside & let a load more people in? They are sealed at a bonded warehouse so that they don't need to be opened up.

I suppose you could have an escape hatch but by the time anyone inside realises they are fucked, they would probably be too weak to access it.

 

[xenon]

Yes. But that still doesn't (necessarily) implicate the driver. (I don't know if you were saying it does.)

The hold is full of stacked containers. No roomto open the lid. Guessing, admitidly.

e2a sorry Mation, quoted wrong post.

 

[Mumbles274]

Lots of news sources now saying the arrested man knew nothing and reported the situation rather than being involved

 

[Mr.Bishie]

So making them be able to open from the inside would mean that one person could stow away & when parked up, open it up from the inside & let a load more people in? They are sealed at a bonded warehouse so that they don't need to be opened up.

I suppose you could have an escape hatch but by the time anyone inside realises they are fucked, they would probably be too weak to access it.

Yes, we know.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ok, hands up; who knew Purfleet was an international dock?

 

[Dogsauce]

So making them be able to open from the inside would mean that one person could stow away & when parked up, open it up from the inside & let a load more people in?

All it needs is to open enough for air to come in and for someone to raise the alarm, not necessarily large enough to allow escape/access. Although a small opening could still allow for smuggling opportunities so maybe a non-starter.

 

[Dogsauce]

Still being routinely described as a ‘container’ by the media rather than a trailer, which is then causing people to interpret this wrongly and talk about ‘stacking’ and so on.

 

[D'wards]

Once again the press reveal all the details of a suspect who ends up being totally innocent.
The law needs to change regarding this

 

[Raheem]

Once again the press reveal all the details of a suspect who ends up being totally innocent.
The law needs to change regarding this

Not sure he's ended up being totally innocent yet.

 

[MrSki]

Still being routinely described as a ‘container’ by the media rather than a trailer, which is then causing people to interpret this wrongly and talk about ‘stacking’ and so on.

Most solid trailers I have come across are back door loading only. Pallets can be loaded on to the tail but are moved internally by a pump truck rather than a forklift driving right in.

I don't have any knowledge about whether they are stacked on a ferry though. I am sure someone will be along soon with more knowledge of freight ferries than me. I would have thought that trailers are driven on & then the tractor is detached rather than stacking but wait to be informed.

 

[MrSki]

Not sure he's ended up being totally innocent yet.

Agreed but if he is he has been shat upon from a great height.

 

[pesh]

You don't stack trailers. Containers get stacked on cargo ships but ive never seen it happen on a ferry, theyd be loaded onto a trailer and driven on and off

 

[Humberto]

Could be that organised crime is now a lower priority but is in fact a grave problem which if left unchallenged is always a poison. One that only grows in its ability to intimidate. So an intelligence lead response would be my first consideration if I had any part in tackling it. Take the fight to organised crime and those involved in human trafficking/modern slavery. Across the board.

 

[teuchter]

Shipping containers can either be stacked on a cargo ship, or placed on a lorry trailer and driven on or off a vehicle ferry. This doesn't look like a shipping container though, it's a dedicated lorry trailer so would only ever travel on a ferry.
The suggestion that all containers/trailers should have an internal release mechanism seems a sensible one to me. I don't see the need for containers to be locked in a way that can't be released from the inside. And you don't have to lock a container to 'seal' it for security or customs purposes - you just need something tamper-proof, ie you can tell if an attempt has been made to open it.

Some googling suggests that certain refridgerated containers already have emergency exit hatches or handles. However as there are tens of millions of containers/trailers in circulation around the world it's not something that could be introduced very rapidly.

 

[andysays]

Essex lorry deaths: Post mortem examinations to start on 39 bodies

Various references there to the fact that the nationality of the victims is still not fully confirmed

Police believe the eight women and 31 men in the refrigerated unit were Chinese.

The Chinese Ambassador to the UK, Liu Xiaoming, said he had sent a team to Essex to help police verify the identity of the victims. He added that their nationality was yet to be confirmed.

Essex Police said the victims were all "believed to be Chinese nationals".

And it looks like it's going to be a slow process

Dr Richard Shepherd, one of the UK's leading forensic pathologists, said post mortem examinations on the 39 victims would be a "very slow, organised process. It is a meticulous examination starting with looking externally," he said.

"What clothes were they wearing? Is there any jewellery that might identify them? Are there any documents? Are there passports?" Dr Shepherd said pathologists would also be searching for clues about how the victims entered the refrigerated unit. "Have these people been tortured? Have they been sexually assaulted? Have they been beaten and forced in?"

 

[Rimbaud]

Mad how for all its growth and new cities and decades of double digit growth and Shenzhen and all that shit... life in China is so still so shit for so many that this sort of thing still happens. It's a fucking disgrace.

Tbh that is surprising.

This last happened in the year 2000 when China was at about the level that Tanzania is today. The economy now is nearly 10 times what it was then, and I find it a bit strange that desperate people would feel such a dangerous journey to an alien country would give them better odds than finding work in a relatively prosperous Chinese city.

I wonder if they are Uyghurs. That would make more sense to me, and if so it would be huge.

 

[Rimbaud]

A few things make me think that they are Uyghurs.

1 - This exploded on Chinese media at first, and initially they seemed to be going for a "see how dangerous the west is" angle. It is still a hot topic on Chinese social media but they seem to be trying to cool down the attention on more directly controlled outlets.

China blacks out CNN coverage of 39 Chinese migrants dying in truck container

2 - An earlier statement from the Human Trafficking Foundation stated that they were likely from Afghanistan or Syria. The Human Trafficking Foundation is composed of law enforcement and local governments as well as Parliamentary NGOs, so their spokesman would have been in the loop about what was found. That he assumed Afghanistan or Syria suggests that they might not have been Chinese by appearance. (of course, maybe he hadn't heard anything from the scene and was just basing it on likelihood).

3 - There are reports of Xinjiang refugees fleeing from Central Asian states because of the risk of those governments succumbing to pressure from the Chinese government to extradite them.
The Mysterious Case of the Missing Kazakh-Chinese Refugee
‘Our Government Doesn’t Want to Spoil Relations with China’

Just speculation and nothing concrete, but it wouldn't surprise me. If they are Uyghurs it's going to be a big deal and might finally get people to pay attention to what's happening there.

 

[Pickman's model]

Some googling suggests that certain refridgerated containers already have emergency exit hatches or handles. However as there are tens of millions of containers/trailers in circulation around the world it's not something that could be introduced very rapidly.

It's something that could be introduced rapidly, put in new containers, but obvs it would be a long tíme till the majority of containers had such features

 

[maomao]

find it a bit strange that desperate people would feel such a dangerous journey to an alien country would give them better odds than finding work in a relatively prosperous Chinese city.

Guardian has an article today that makes sense.

China-UK people trafficking often driven by debt, experts say

They're in debt before they agree to come here. They're not economic migrants, they're slaves already when they come here.

It being Uighurs would surprise me. Not least because Uighurs who don't look like Chinese would not be immediately and easily distinguished from Bulgarians which the early comments made clear was the case.

 

[maomao]

Ok, hands up; who knew Purfleet was an international dock?

I knew there were docks there. Is there such a thing as a domestic dock?

 

[not-bono-ever]

the whole area along with tilbury is still docks heavy. There is one roro that does a scheduled run from Purfleet to the Low Countries iirc but it’s the pretty small vehicle numbers.

 

[not-bono-ever]

It's something that could be introduced rapidly, put in new containers, but obvs it would be a long tíme till the majority of containers had such features

There’s c 25m containers currently kicking about- that’s a lot of stuff that isn’t going to be retrofitted . In terms of tolerable deaths vs outlay to resolve, even with fridge lorries/ reefers , there is unlikely to be any enthusiasm to do this sadly.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I knew there were docks there. Is there such a thing as a domestic dock?

bad wording on my part; ferry port I guess I meant...

 

[maomao]

bad wording on my part; ferry port I guess I meant...

I'm sure there are domestic docks on lakes somewhere and there surely used to be on the UK canal system. I was just having the same giggle that I have at every minor airport that puts 'international' in it's name.

 

[MrSki]

I knew there were docks there. Is there such a thing as a domestic dock?

I expect there are a few that only have fishing boats or a few that are for domestic ferries in Scotland.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ok, hands up; who knew Purfleet was an international dock?

*hand*

 

[maomao]

I expect there are a few that only have fishing boats or a few that are for domestic ferries in Scotland.

And of course ferry ports for the Isle of Wight and Northern Ireland. I'll just shut up.