2004 F1 Championship
- Thread starter the B
- Start date
kained&able
Here for the football.
only .4 secs off his back, one mistake and he would have had it. good to see button on the poidum again!
what the hell was shumacher doing?????
dave
what the hell was shumacher doing?????
dave
Anyone who actually knows about F1 will know that you can't overtake under SC, that the SC controls maximum pace while the leader, car behind, controls the pace of the pack, that the conditions are equivalent to double yellows - must be able to stop immediately...
There is no way you start jumping someone to unlap yourself....it's pointless...especially if the car is faster...there is no point doing it there on Monaco because you pretty much catch up on the schicane after the tunnel, at rascas or Anthony Nouges....
Button was never going to overtake Trulli, it was very wishful thinking.
There is no way you start jumping someone to unlap yourself....it's pointless...especially if the car is faster...there is no point doing it there on Monaco because you pretty much catch up on the schicane after the tunnel, at rascas or Anthony Nouges....
Button was never going to overtake Trulli, it was very wishful thinking.
kained&able
Here for the football.
anyone who klnows monocco knows you don't start doing brake tests in the middle of that tunnel or go as far to the left as shumacher seemed to be. montoya was on the racing line and micheal was a fair bit wide of him, lot of debris and dust and stuff round there.
silly idea always likely to lock up, looked like montoya just got a bit close and tried to evade but didn't have room.
and button didn't have much of a chance but you gotta race to the line and all it would have taken was a slight lock up and button geting passed the minardi a tad quicker and it would have been done.
anyway its part of the commentators job to make the race as exciting as possible so of course they are going to say he has a chnace.
dave
silly idea always likely to lock up, looked like montoya just got a bit close and tried to evade but didn't have room.
and button didn't have much of a chance but you gotta race to the line and all it would have taken was a slight lock up and button geting passed the minardi a tad quicker and it would have been done.
anyway its part of the commentators job to make the race as exciting as possible so of course they are going to say he has a chnace.
dave
thelittlechef
Ale Drinker
the B said:x 100 at Montoya
Michael could have won it
ha, ha, ha, ha....
lol lol lol lol
God bless JP, and all who crash with him...
There isn't exactly racing line when you aren't racing ie. behind a SC but Michael was on it so...
In the tunnel or not, you should be able to stop at any moment, it's not like there's a reason to be going quickly behind the SC...locking up can flat spot tyres but it heats brakes, that's the entire point of doing what he did
Ultimately, Montoya shouldn't have needed to evade at all, he shouldn't have been travelling such that he would need to evade, there was nothing to gain by overtaking Schumacher since he'd blue flagged to get out of the way again afterwards...
Button really had no chance to overtake - Trulli could have been moving at Minardi speeds and been as wide as the road.
The commentators could have just as easily gone into other things than 'Button has gained another actually insignificant tenth of a second on a driver deliberately going slowly'
In the tunnel or not, you should be able to stop at any moment, it's not like there's a reason to be going quickly behind the SC...locking up can flat spot tyres but it heats brakes, that's the entire point of doing what he did
Ultimately, Montoya shouldn't have needed to evade at all, he shouldn't have been travelling such that he would need to evade, there was nothing to gain by overtaking Schumacher since he'd blue flagged to get out of the way again afterwards...
Button really had no chance to overtake - Trulli could have been moving at Minardi speeds and been as wide as the road.
The commentators could have just as easily gone into other things than 'Button has gained another actually insignificant tenth of a second on a driver deliberately going slowly'
thelittlechef said:
ha, ha, ha, ha....
lol lol lol lol
God bless JP, and all who crash with him...
Because crashes are safe?
You can piss off as far as I'm concerned, attitudes like that are only just about imaginable because cars are so safe now - you wouldn't have found it funny when that sort of crash would be fatal...hopefully.
kained&able
Here for the football.
no racing line???? right wheres garf i wnat some who can back this up easily beacuse this is getting silly.
there is a racing line, this will eb the line where most of the rubber has been put down for the enire racing day by cars. also in the racing line there is no dust due to many cars goign through that patch and not letting it settle.
its common knowlege that there are dirty and clean parts of the race track. the clean parts tend to be the racing line. deviate from this for too long and your always in with a chance of fucking up.
as fpor the safety car thing, yeah your definately not allowed to overtake, but its not a double yellow situation.(edit: double yellows being used for a specific area of the track rather then the entire thing) the car is there to limit speeds all the way round the track while things are getting cleared. The teams will be in the radio telling the cars which parts of the race tarck to watch out for(and they've been round a lap by then anyway so should know whats going on) therefore they will know which bits to be especilly carful on.
The inside of the tunnel wasn't a problem and at the speeds they were doing there should have been no need to brake espcilly considering the fact that the tunnel is the fastest point(or one of them at least) on that track.
shumacher should not have had to brake at all during that tunnel and there would have been no need to take a different line.
so bollocks to your hero he fucked up and was out the grand prix. simple as.
dave
there is a racing line, this will eb the line where most of the rubber has been put down for the enire racing day by cars. also in the racing line there is no dust due to many cars goign through that patch and not letting it settle.
its common knowlege that there are dirty and clean parts of the race track. the clean parts tend to be the racing line. deviate from this for too long and your always in with a chance of fucking up.
as fpor the safety car thing, yeah your definately not allowed to overtake, but its not a double yellow situation.(edit: double yellows being used for a specific area of the track rather then the entire thing) the car is there to limit speeds all the way round the track while things are getting cleared. The teams will be in the radio telling the cars which parts of the race tarck to watch out for(and they've been round a lap by then anyway so should know whats going on) therefore they will know which bits to be especilly carful on.
The inside of the tunnel wasn't a problem and at the speeds they were doing there should have been no need to brake espcilly considering the fact that the tunnel is the fastest point(or one of them at least) on that track.
shumacher should not have had to brake at all during that tunnel and there would have been no need to take a different line.
so bollocks to your hero he fucked up and was out the grand prix. simple as.
dave
Bollocks - SC is used to indicate the effect of double yellows all over the track - otherwise you just use double yellows on the effected area.
Considering Alonso's accident was in the fucking tunnel, I think everyone was right to travel quite carefully in the tunnel apart from Muppetman Montoya apparently.
When you are not racing, there is no racing line as such - during a GP, everyone will be on the racing line (dry conditions) anyway because you don't pick up marbles of rubber from tyres like that...Michael was on the racing line in the tunnel - there is just one line, it's not two cars wide (as Montoya felt he had to demonstrate apparently).
I think you'll find you try and maintain all temperatures and pressures when possible - especially since you don't want to be cold on the downhill breaking schicane following the tunnel since you may damage the undertray of the car.
Montoya has consistently been doing fuckwitted things in his car, so has Ralf, they've both been involved in many accidents.
Considering Alonso's accident was in the fucking tunnel, I think everyone was right to travel quite carefully in the tunnel apart from Muppetman Montoya apparently.
When you are not racing, there is no racing line as such - during a GP, everyone will be on the racing line (dry conditions) anyway because you don't pick up marbles of rubber from tyres like that...Michael was on the racing line in the tunnel - there is just one line, it's not two cars wide (as Montoya felt he had to demonstrate apparently).
I think you'll find you try and maintain all temperatures and pressures when possible - especially since you don't want to be cold on the downhill breaking schicane following the tunnel since you may damage the undertray of the car.
Montoya has consistently been doing fuckwitted things in his car, so has Ralf, they've both been involved in many accidents.
kained&able
Here for the football.
he did it twice. the 2nd one wasn't too bad. the first one was stupidly dodgy
and prooves my point perfectly about the tunnel. its not a place you should try and do anything clever in at all.
dave
and prooves my point perfectly about the tunnel. its not a place you should try and do anything clever in at all.
dave
To be black flagged by the race director takes a while...and the reasons for it are that your car is trying to race when it's not possible to race properly (ie. so much of your car is missing you can't possible reach the minimum weight or something).
It's pretty rare...
He should have had some penalities thrown early on for the jump start...
It's pretty rare...
He should have had some penalities thrown early on for the jump start...
kained&able
Here for the football.
not convinced he did jump start.
need to see the rules though before i make a fool of myself.
is it any movement or is it if the front wheels are out of th box or what?
dave
need to see the rules though before i make a fool of myself.
is it any movement or is it if the front wheels are out of th box or what?
dave
thelittlechef
Ale Drinker
the B said:Because crashes are safe?
You can piss off as far as I'm concerned, attitudes like that are only just about imaginable because cars are so safe now - you wouldn't have found it funny when that sort of crash would be fatal...hopefully.
I think you took my comments a bit more seriously than they were intended...
My joy is at a non schuey win... and a no points either... and to that end I think I'll add:
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
Now that was a GP!
The SC issue is important but slightly different at Monaco because drivers can be unsighted pretty easily - I'm suprised the SC didn't crawl through the tunnel knowing that there's a blind-ish bend in it.
MS locked up which reduced his speed pretty quickly and JPM wasn't paying attention under full track caution - simple as. A racing accident. I've read in some places that people think it was deliberate - if it was he would ploughed up the back of him, but he clearly dives to the right to avoid the collison, knocking MS towards the barrier.
My joy for Trulli winning and JB coming second was nothing compared to seeing Fisi walk away from the crash caused by Sato's engine blowing. As soon as it happened it looked pretty nasty but thank god for the new car design - 15 years ago and i'm not convinced he'd have walked away.
Trulli deserved that win and i'm not convinced MS woudl have caught him. God knows what Alonso was trying to do overtaking on the outside in the tunnel
Oh and for Ralf - he really think he's worth $30m a year!!!!!!!!!!!!! Toyota are making a mistake IMO
The SC issue is important but slightly different at Monaco because drivers can be unsighted pretty easily - I'm suprised the SC didn't crawl through the tunnel knowing that there's a blind-ish bend in it.
MS locked up which reduced his speed pretty quickly and JPM wasn't paying attention under full track caution - simple as. A racing accident. I've read in some places that people think it was deliberate - if it was he would ploughed up the back of him, but he clearly dives to the right to avoid the collison, knocking MS towards the barrier.
My joy for Trulli winning and JB coming second was nothing compared to seeing Fisi walk away from the crash caused by Sato's engine blowing. As soon as it happened it looked pretty nasty but thank god for the new car design - 15 years ago and i'm not convinced he'd have walked away.
Trulli deserved that win and i'm not convinced MS woudl have caught him. God knows what Alonso was trying to do overtaking on the outside in the tunnel
Oh and
for Ralf - he really think he's worth $30m a year!!!!!!!!!!!!! Toyota are making a mistake IMO
kained&able
Here for the football.
thelittlechef said:I think you took my comments a bit more seriously than they were intended...
My joy is at a non schuey win... and a no points either... and to that end I think I'll add:
esepercilly considering b's new detah to montoya tagline thingy!!!
you can't criticize someone for wanting to be out the gp(and it was never going to be a fatal crash) while willing a different racer death!!!!
dave
kained&able
Here for the football.
g force said:
so how comes panis(i think) always starts halfway down his box????? this is where my confusion comes from, if it isn't fear of a false start that makes him give up 4 metres then what is it?????
dave
Ich bin ein Mod
does his make up in his room
Because he's shit and can't even line his car up properly?Kained and Unable said:so how comes panis(i think) always starts halfway down his box????? this is where my confusion comes from, if it isn't fear of a false start that makes him give up 4 metres then what is it?????
dave
I'm not entirely sure Michael was off the racing line before he locked up, the TV pics were not entirely helpful as he was already locked up by the time you saw him. Montoya is a prick and its not the first time he's done stupid things in a grand prix, I fear that it'll only be a matter of time before he causes someone serious injury or even death in an F1 car. The worst thing is he's almost revered for this stupidity as apparently it shows "character". Bollocks
How can you say that you are not sure that Sato jumped the start? He was at least 20 mph quicker than everyone else st the start and you don't get that from just being quick at getting away. Plus there was the barge into Schumi at the first corner - had the roles been reversed all you would have heard would have been "typical arrogant Schumacher pushing people about".
Ralf Schumacher - what a prat
Biggest surprise of the weekend: finding myself agreeing with what Coulthard had to say about Sato. There was no way he could have made it to the end of the gp, his car was constantly smoking and his excuse of "I was just racing" is really not good enough.
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
Agree with the Sato thing - the car was clearly smoking on the warm up lap FFS!
IBEM - I think people are over reacting. Montoya apologised to Ferrari saying he tried to avoid MS but couldn't. I still think testing your brakes in a dark tunnel that has a blind bend is asking for trouble. Rubens also complained of a locking left front wheel so perhaps they had problems getting the brakes up to temprature?
According to JPM, Michael moved to the right as he came up alongside him so he had nowhere to go and if that's the case you've got wonder what the hell they were playing at. Like you say the TV pictures are hard to judge so we'll never really know.
They're as bad as each other IMO and i've lost respect for both of them since the beginning of this season due to these, frankly pathetic squabbles over who did what to whom. What goes around comes around - you move across under braking and it will come back on you, you block someone in a race, someone else will block you. That's the nature of F1.
As for unsafe, I disagree, JPM's raced on Ovals at over 200 mph with guys 5 inches from his wheels and never caused an accident. I'd say BAR letting Sato start was unsafe and thankfully Fisi managed to walk away from the crash. Ralfs actions were equally unsafe and cost Alonso a possible win too.
MS will win the WDC, we all know that.
IBEM - I think people are over reacting. Montoya apologised to Ferrari saying he tried to avoid MS but couldn't. I still think testing your brakes in a dark tunnel that has a blind bend is asking for trouble. Rubens also complained of a locking left front wheel so perhaps they had problems getting the brakes up to temprature?
According to JPM, Michael moved to the right as he came up alongside him so he had nowhere to go and if that's the case you've got wonder what the hell they were playing at. Like you say the TV pictures are hard to judge so we'll never really know.
They're as bad as each other IMO and i've lost respect for both of them since the beginning of this season due to these, frankly pathetic squabbles over who did what to whom. What goes around comes around - you move across under braking and it will come back on you, you block someone in a race, someone else will block you. That's the nature of F1.
As for unsafe, I disagree, JPM's raced on Ovals at over 200 mph with guys 5 inches from his wheels and never caused an accident. I'd say BAR letting Sato start was unsafe and thankfully Fisi managed to walk away from the crash. Ralfs actions were equally unsafe and cost Alonso a possible win too.
MS will win the WDC, we all know that.
Ich bin ein Mod
does his make up in his room
Yes, Montaoya never caused an accident in CART, but then he was enjoying success. In F1, I feel that we are seeing the dark side of JPM, one in which he is resorting to desperate, very stupid and ultimately dangerous manouvers in a vain attempt to claw his way to the top of the pile.
Yes, Schumacher willl win the WDC, but I was willing him on yesterday (instead of usually wanting either Ferrari to win) to get the record for 6 wins in the first 6 races. He probably was somewhat to blame, but Montoya was a very stupid boy.
Yes, Schumacher willl win the WDC, but I was willing him on yesterday (instead of usually wanting either Ferrari to win) to get the record for 6 wins in the first 6 races. He probably was somewhat to blame, but Montoya was a very stupid boy.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
Ich bin ein Mod said:
nah your chatting bollocks shumi is know for doing this it is a deliberate attempt to force off the person behind to pang off the wall, it's an old tactic he was doing it in the tunnel the least well lit part of the track, (seeing is diffcult in that part of the track on a clear day at 30 mph let alone at 65 to 70, shumi put a spurt on then breaked late and didn't allow for the driver behind, rule number one in racing is make usre you are aware of the people behind you, the car was out there was little need to warm up his breaks there as he had a thrid of the track in clear light to do so left ot go ample to warm up his breaks to near opperating tempreture (around 500 50 600 degrees or so fromt he 150 to 200 that they would have been) shumi made the classic error of under estimating his brake temp (hence the lock up) and then sprited off know that the person behind would have to match his pace as they could be no over taking, montoya moved over to the right seeing that shumi was doing and it was shumi attempting to slam the door to prevent him over taking summit which if he had though about it longer he would have realised that montoya couldn't do as it was still under pace car he over corrected as the cars contacted and as a result (remeber this was all at around 50 to 60 mph and under breaking to perhaps less not a racing speeds) then he glanced off the barrier as a result of his stupid and deliberate manuver.
Lest we forget shumi is not exactly whiter than white when it comes to dirty tricks, he played a dangerous hand and lost, though.
At the end of the day montoya was not to blame i dare say that the stewards will say the same too, as it goes i'm glad it happened there would have been as much of an exciting race.
ralf should have moved ovr but i reckon it is likely that he didn't intend to slow as he did but missed a gear and this stuttered the car (he was having gear box trouble after all) if anythign williams should be penalised for allowing the car to conitnue in a dnagerous condition as it clearly proved to be but not for montoya, perhaps when you put away your Ferrari supporters cap AKA shumi fan club cap back down you'll realise that this was the case...
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
in fact the stewards now say it was a racing incident ...
http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/21330
http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/21330
