2004 F1 Championship

[g force]

Pah! To all the Button doubters..."he can't handle pressure", "he's only doing well because the other teams are lagging"

He got pole in a stunning lap, forcing MS to make a mistake and then held his own in the race - no one was going to catch Shumey. Good work!!!

 

[holteman]

just been looking at everyones predictions before the start of the season.....

g force ya smart arse!

 

[g force]

Well ya know....

Testing times can be misleading but I always thought the BAR had to come good at some point. I mean Honda know how to build a decent engine, and once they nabbed Willis from Williams the chassis was bound to get better.

Now, if they coudl just get rid of Sato and put Davidson in the car they'd be a team. I like Sato but he really needs to pull his finger out.

Surpirsed Renault haven't been quicker though - I think Alonso may be struggling with the hype.

And as for Ralf Schumacher...he wants $30m a year for that!

 

[the B]

Button is still shit in my opinion, his driving is wholly unremarkable, there is nothing about him as a driver that stands out as especially good. He's strikes me as a David Coulthard. He can't push a car to the limits like other great or very good drivers.

Formula 1 will be undergoing MASSIVE rule changes in the future (2006 and 2008 look the years of the major changes). I'll drag up links from yahoo news soon enough.

 

[the B]

1. Michael Schumacher Germany Ferrari-Ferrari 1min 15.022secs

2. Juan Montoya Colombia Williams-BMW 1min 15.639secs +0.617secs

3. Takuma Sato Japan BAR-Honda 1min 15.890secs +0.868secs

4. Jarno Trulli Italy Renault-Renault 1min 16.144secs +1.122secs

5. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari 1min 16.272secs +1.250secs

6. Ralf Schumacher Germany Williams-BMW 1min 16.293secs +1.271secs

7. Olivier Panis France Toyota-Toyota 1min 16.313secs +1.291secs

8. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault-Renault 1min 16.422secs +1.400secs

9 Mark Webber Australia Jaguar-Cosworth 1min 16.514secs +1.492secs

10. David Coulthard Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1min 16.636secs +1.614secs

11. Cristiano da Matta Brazil Toyota-Toyota 1min 17.038secs +2.016secs

12. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Sauber-Petronas 1min 17.444secs +2.422secs

13. Kimi Raikkonen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1min 17.445secs +2.423secs

14. Jenson Button Britain BAR-Honda 1min 17.575secs +2.553secs

15. Nick Heidfeld Germany Jordan-Ford 1min 17.802secs +2.780secs

16. Christian Klien Austria Jaguar-Cosworth 1min 17.812secs +2.790secs

17. Felipe Massa Brazil Sauber-Petronas 1min.17.866secs +2.844secs

18. Gianmaria Bruni Italy Minardi-Cosworth 1min 19.817secs +4.795secs

19. Giorgio Pantano Italy Jordan-Ford 1min 20.607secs +5.585secs

20. Zsolt Baumgartner Hungary Minardi-Cosworth 1min 21.470secs +6.448secs

 

[the B]

Changes to qualifying system (which is currently really shit and dull) to happen by mid-season - revised system will be two 30 minutes sessions with times added up from both. http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040509/23/3qe9.html

Some bookies are ready to pay out for people who have bet that Michael Schumacher will win the world title.

New rule changes: http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040505/23/3nbh.html

Engines to be 2.4 litre V8 spec and to last even more race weekends.

Standardised electronics to stop there being any traction control, standardised tyre and brakes.

Overall car weight to be reduced.

Rubens Barrichello could do with a shave...

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

What did I miss? First GP of the season that I've been working during

 

[the B]

Highlights on now...Ferrari 1-2 despite cracked exhaust for M Schumacher, assuming Barrichello told not to race M Schumacher off the track because of problem.

Renaults finish behind them, Trulli who led at the start with a stunning start and then Alonso.

JPM has brake problem and retires.

Button makes up lost places to go 8th.

Sato disappoints by finishing 5th, R Schumacher has quiet race at 6th.

Fisi does a very good job to go 7th.

McLaren do shit again.

 

[g force]

What the hell is up with McLaren - running 10th/11th most of the race I know they're looking to introduce a new chassis sometime this season but they've tested this car loads and it's awful.

Wonder if JPM is worried?! V weird that his brakes went too. Glad Renault did well and nice to see Trulli on the podium. Button had a poor weekend - but nobody qualifying that far down would have done much better without drivifn a red car that starts with an 'F'.

 

[the B]

B spec MP19 is due in the German Grand Prix (around then - though we know what happened with the MP18 )

I imagine JPM is very very worried - didn't seem like a good idea to move last season and now it seems like an even worse decision (in terms of driver's prestige) but his pay will be much higher at McLaren.

On his brakes - brake discs are quite heavy parts of an F1 car - also aerodynamically inefficient so the smaller and thinner they can be made, the better. They are currently variable (though this will change in the future on the rules).

In order to give the car more grunt, thinner brake discs were probably used (this used to happen a lot under the old qualifying system rules). Seems like JPM ended up with discs that were too thin.

I think the most impressive performance was from Fisichella

I think Button's 'the wind blew me off the track' theory for qualifying is a little too suspect - that isn't a slow corner, the amount of downforce should have been more than sufficient to keep a car stick to the track.

 

[g force]

Oh yeah that was a lame excuse and a half. Fisi was good - alos ver y impressed by Klien given what a poor car the jag is and also Bruni in qualifying - looks very smooth and pretty quick (for a Minardi):

So far i'd summarise the season thus:

Ferrari - Outstanding car. MS in a class of his own, RB doing a good support job (although having a fast second driver would make things interesting - imagine Villeneuve or JPM in that machine ) It's like 88/89 all over again - a class apart.

McLaren - Mediocore. No point saying anything about the drivers because god himself couldn't make that dog win. Assume they will get better, but actually seem to be getting worse! A lot will depend on who partners JPM next year

Williams - Also suffering the radical car syndrome. Fast yes, but seems to handle badly. JPM doing as decent job (although should stop whinging). Ralf is an embarassment compared to 99% of the drivers and will be out on his ear. Give the seat to Heidfeld to see what a proper driver can do!!!!!

Renault - Ultra reliable but haven't made the step up in performance I was expecting - or maybe Ferrari are just too quick. Great drivers, working as a team, although Alonso needs to learn to qualify and not throw it off the track!

BAR - Taking advantage of the problems of other with a decent car, great engine and decent drivers. JB has done very well but needs to keep it up top prove to ebveryone (fans included) that he can fight with the big boys. Sato is improving and will get better - possible winner in Japan IMO. Davidson doign a storming job on Fridays - soemone give him a drive!

Sauber - Considering it's last years Ferrari it ain't up to much. Drivers are steady but unspectacular (when Massa keeps it on track). Fisi will score more points as season goes on but that Ferrari drive ain't ever going to happen.

Toyota - where does all that money go? Mike has had v little time to do anything I susopcect next years car will be much better but in the meantime look set for another average season. Da Matta is steady, Panis too. Probably both be out of a seat come '05. Zonta likely to get one of them.

Jaguar - Errrr....one week it's on the front row, the next it's battlign with a Jordan!!! Webber will be on his way for sure, prolly Williams or Renault. Klien looks promising if they keep him.

Jordan - piss poor but like Jag prolly down to engine underperformance (and lack of money) Pantano looks lost in F1. Heidfeld looks destined to lose his seat Verstapen Shame becuase he's much better than results suggest and miles better than Jos. Not confident that next year will be any better due to lack of ££££££

Minardi - You've gotta love 'em for their never say die attitude but they'll always be last. Bruni looks like a very decent driver, Zsolt doesn't.

 

[fubert]

formula one is a load of wank these days. and it's been a load of wank since 1993 when williams and active suspension raised its ugly head.

 

[the B]

Kimi is staying with McLaren.

Renault, the cars are greased lightning off the line - have been for a long time and will be for a while to come I think.

Toyota, the money will come through eventually I'd of thought, but the same could have been said about Jaguar...R Schumacher is almost definately driving for them next year.

Formula 1 isn't that different from other circuit racing in terms of general spectacle - but there are less mistakes made so therefore less overtaking happens and less crashes happen. If you don't like Formula 1, which racing do you like? And since I only started to watch in 94 - I wouldn't know about how much the spectacle changed from before it really.

 

[g force]

I got into F1 back in the mid-to-late 80s - my mum loves it and watched every GP religiously!!

Fubert - Lotus had active suspension in 86 - the problem is more driver aids. The FIA rules state the car "must be driven unaided" but the FIA can't enforce the rules, hence why traction control is still used, semi auto gearboxes, etc.

Back then one team usually dominiated, rather than a single driver. So, okay you had Senna who was supreme, but you also had Mansell, Prost, Piquet in similar cars who also won GPs and made it pretty close stuff. Then you had second string drivers in teams who could win the odd GP, ie, Berger in the Benetton back in 86.

Now though, Schumacher isn't even challenged by his team mate - and I still think the team orders fiasco in Austria has tainted Ferrari and F1. Even when McLaren dominated it was slightly more interested becuase you had the Senna v Prost dynamic, or at Williams, Mansell v Piquet. Now it's a one man show, with a team built around him.

F1 as a spectacle is getting worse due to one man - Hermann Tilke. He designs every circuit, which nearly all look the same, he's destroyed the German GP. Look at how great some circuits are like Spa and compare them to places like Bahrain. Bernie wants to get rid of all the 'old' circuits because they don't have shiny garages and press areas in favour of soluless tracks with little overtaking that offer less and less of a challenge.

 

[fubert]

Toyota, the money will come through eventually I'd of thought, but the same could have been said about Jaguar...R Schumacher is almost definately driving for them next year.

i'd have thought that bmw would have wanted to keep a german driver on the team.

 

[where to]

don't really like it no more myself.

its years since there were interesting drivers, personalities, characters that gave it an edge.

the post race interviews used to be INTERESTING! the days of senna, prost, mansell, even hill was more interesting than some of these guys.

and the tracks were better, it was less commercial, there were more cars, it was less predictable, the races made sence and weren't decided solely by pit stops and refueling.

it was glamourous, but more tasteful and classy than todays razzamattaz which just seems fake to me.

pish.

 

[the B]

The changes at Hockenheim are very

It was a circuit (and still is) one in which Ferrari (and notably Michael Schumacher) doesn't do well on, but it was a good circuit and had some of the best GPs I've ever seen on it - Barrichello's win in the wet/dry conditions for one.

BMW would prefer some success over a German driver. Ralf is an alright driver but he's no world champion or close to it...

 

[the B]

don't really like it no more myself.

its years since there were interesting drivers, personalities, characters that gave it an edge.

the post race interviews used to be INTERESTING! the days of senna, prost, mansell, even hill was more interesting than some of these guys.

and the tracks were better, it was less commercial, there were more cars, it was less predictable, the races made sence and weren't decided solely by pit stops and refueling.

it was glamourous, but more tasteful and classy than todays razzamattaz which just seems fake to me.

pish.

The drivers are lacking in personality and seem very cold - Eddie Irvine and Jean Alesi were

Raikkonnen is a wooden plank in front of camera. But I don't watch F1 for the post-race interviews...

I'm not sure the tracks were better, but the cars found it harder to get around them. The tracks need to be more challenging maybe - but the technology of cars is such that you could easily make F1 cars so fast and nimble, drivers would need G suits.

I don't think adding 'bad' cars to the grid helps at all really...just meant there more cars who might finish having been lapped about "Forti" times.

I think adding sprinklers to tracks would probably make it more interesting...wet races are always better - you rarely get a bad one anyway.

 

[g force]

i'd have thought that bmw would have wanted to keep a german driver on the team.

Yep - two words: Nick Heidfeld.

He's class, easily as good as Ralf and can actually race, and unlike Ralf knows how to vertake - getting plenty of practice in that Jordan too! But then you'd think Toyota would want a japanese driver butt hey seem happy to have whoever.

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

Even allowing for the fact he's been in crap teams, Heidfeld hasn't really lived up to the promise he showed in F3000.

All this talk about hardly any overtaking, I've said it before and I'll say it again: is it a really bad thing? Too much overtaking means it's pointless watching the first 90% of a race, wheras in F1 you learn to cherish overtaking, especially watching a driver cut vital tenths off another's lead then having a last-gasp do-or-die go for it.

BTW, F1 got far better since '99

 

[the B]

It was very good in 94 and 95 too

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

Na, Ferrari didn't win anything!

 

[the B]

Jean Alesi got a good podium finish at Belgium I think...95?

*hazy memory*

I think some bloke called Michael Schumacher stole what would have been a victory though...

 

[fubert]

Jean Alesi got a good podium finish at Belgium I think...95?

umm.. alesi never actually finished a race at spa in a ferrari.

he did get several podium finishes - even won the canadian gp.

 

[the B]

Hazy memory then...I have a funny feeling I meant Hockenheim though...I do remember the overtaking move by Schumacher on Alesi at a schicane - which doesn't suggest Spa really...

Ferrari get Shanghai advantage: http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040512/13/3s7y.html

Williams driver line-up next year looks like Webber (generally) and Jacques Villneuve http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040511/13/3rqi.html

(there is far more speculation than that - but I've just posted the one article)

Be interesting to see Villneuve back in a competitive car - he's actually a good driver.

 

[fubert]

Williams driver line-up next year looks like Webber (generally) and Jacques Villneuve http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040511/13/3rqi.html

williams hope to announce their final driver line up for 2005 in august - or so cnn said last night.

 

[the B]

That's not 'news' really...traditionally, August has been the time for driver line ups to be confirmed for sharp end of the grid teams...teams lower down the grid tend to take longer deciding because of sponsorship arrangements etc.

 

[fubert]

That's not 'news' really...traditionally, August has been the time for driver line ups to be confirmed for sharp end of the grid teams...teams lower down the grid tend to take longer deciding because of sponsorship arrangements etc.

isn't it normally done traditionally at hockenheim ?

 

[the B]

Usually just after Hockenheim which has been in late July/August depending on the demand for just one race in August (a fairly recent thing to accomodate a gap of 2 weekends to Hungary). Hockenheim was the race in which they tended to drive for their seat if there was doubt.

 

[Ich bin ein Mod]

What prat thinks Ferrari won't win the Constructors championship?