14th November Movement for Left Unity

[articul8]

Oh NO! Against one of Corbyn's work experience grunts? What a tragedy for the class! I'll contact the steering committee immediately and demand we withdraw.

Fuck off you stupid twat.

You fuck off - it's stupidity of that sort which saw the SP stand against McDonnell. RMT will be pulling the plug soon I expect.

 

[butchersapron]

TUSC is standing in a marginal - Lancaster and Fleetwood - against a lefty and former researcher to Corbyn. Between them and, more seriously, the Greens they could hand that seat to the Tories.

And the labour candidate just happens to be a mate of yours.

 

[articul8]

And the labour candidate just happens to be a mate of yours.

Yes. She is. Hopefully she'll get in despite these daft antics.

 

[Pickman's model]

Relatively modest, but still....

is it fewer than the number of fingers you have?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes. She is. Hopefully she'll get in despite these daft antics.

This is partly how they do it people. Never mention the networks, the connections.

 

[butchersapron]

Since when have you been a doctor btw articul8?

 

[articul8]

Since when have you been a doctor btw articul8?

About 10 years ago, why do you ask?

 

[articul8]

This is partly how they do it people. Never mention the networks, the connections.

Didn't exactly try to conceal anything. Hardly a shock

 

[andysays]

Yes. She is. Hopefully she'll get in despite these daft antics.

So assuming that she does, and assuming that that we end up with a Labour-led government, how is her opposing austerity likely to manifest itself, in ways which actually making a flying fuck's worth of difference to those subject to another five years of austerity, albeit done up in red packaging rather than blue and orange?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

About 10 years ago, why do you ask?

I've had a pain in my neck for a while do you think you could look at it?

 

[DotCommunist]

 

[articul8]

So assuming that she does, and assuming that that we end up with a Labour-led government, how is her opposing austerity likely to manifest itself, in ways which actually making a flying fuck's worth of difference to those subject to another five years of austerity, albeit done up in red packaging rather than blue and orange?

so it makes no difference whether voters elect someone who will use their voice to promote austerity policies, or to oppose them?

 

[articul8]

I've had a pain in my neck for a while do you think you could look at it?

not that kind I'd be earning a whole lot more if I was

 

[andysays]

so it makes no difference whether voters elect someone who will use their voice to promote austerity policies, or to oppose them?

So the only difference you can point to is that your mate and the handful of other Labour MPs who adopt this position will "use their voice" to say, in effect

although I am an MP elected under the banner of the Labour party which, now that it's in government, will follow the policies of austerity and cuts which they have made no secret of, I personally oppose austerity and by abstaining or opposing in particular votes which implement these policies, I want to absolve myself of all responsibility for any of the nasty things the party I'm an MP for might do

Sounds legit...

 

[articul8]

Especially in a hung parliament situation a small number of votes could be critical in blocking particular measures which would otherwise have a devastating effect on people's lives. In this context having a Tory rather than a socialist as your MP matters.

 

[andysays]

Especially in a hung parliament situation a small number of votes could be critical in blocking particular measures which would otherwise have a devastating effect on people's lives. In this context having a Tory rather than a socialist as your MP matters.

Except that any hung parliament will contain a huge majority of MPs representing parties in favour of cuts and austerity, even if they might quibble about some of the detail, so the idea that a handful of "socialist" Labour MPs will make a difference to the outcome of individual votes is nonsense

It's just a way for these "socialist" Labour MPs to claim they personally have clean hands, it will be no consolation to those, including their own constituents, who have to bear the brunt of the Labour imposed austerity.

 

[SpackleFrog]

[E="articul8, post: 13721830, member: 17514"]You fuck off - it's stupidity of that sort which saw the SP stand against McDonnell. RMT will be pulling the plug soon I expect.[/QUOTE]

We'll see won't we?

How long do you think the still-loyal sections of the union bureaucracy can keep that Labour-union link in tact? Or what's left of it.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

[E="articul8, post: 13721830, member: 17514"]You fuck off - it's stupidity of that sort which saw the SP stand against McDonnell. RMT will be pulling the plug soon I expect.

We'll see won't we?

How long do you think the still-loyal sections of the union bureaucracy can keep that Labour-union link in tact? Or what's left of it.

Until a plausible more centre left alternative comes about, might get Unite then. Still wouldn't get the rest though.

 

[SpackleFrog]

[TE="Spanky Longhorn, post: 13723832, member: 47277"]Until a plausible more centre left alternative comes about, might get Unite then. Still wouldn't get the rest though.[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking about 'getting' Unite or anyone else. It doesn't neccessarily follow that any union that breaks its links with Labour would support anyone else. But the link is incredibly fragile right now-a Labour govt (minority or otherwise) carrying out cuts and provokijg strikes could shatter it totally.

 

[treelover]

Lost any interest in L/U, they seem obsessed with identity politics, the ex Workers Power lot seem to be very embedded as well.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Lost any interest in L/U, they seem obsessed with identity politics, the ex Workers Power lot seem to be very embedded as well.

Have you finally learnt your lesson this time?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I'm not talking about 'getting' Unite or anyone else. It doesn't neccessarily follow that any union that breaks its links with Labour would support anyone else. But the link is incredibly fragile right now-a Labour govt (minority or otherwise) carrying out cuts and provokijg strikes could shatter it totally.

Depends how they leaven austerity with other stuff - it's not very likely. However lets not forget over a million workers are in unaffiliated unions anyway... ad yet many of the staff and elected leaders of those unafilliated unions are Labour party members

 

[SpackleFrog]

Depends how they leaven austerity with other stuff - it's not very likely. However lets not forget over a million workers are in unaffiliated unions anyway... ad yet many of the staff and elected leaders of those unafilliated unions are Labour party members

Just been at SP national conference - the Unite caucus reporting that Unite are now discussing internally what a non-Labour affiliated Unite the Union would look like and do, and even hypothesising about a sort of liberal left Peoples Assembly type party.

The union link has endured for a long time, sometimes surprisingly. It's understandable that people are therefore sceptical that it could ever be broken. It's worth remembering nothing is permanent, and that now that we're in a more turbulent period in Britain generally there is a very real possibility it could be broken totally in the next few years.

 

[nino_savatte]

Lost any interest in L/U, they seem obsessed with identity politics, the ex Workers Power lot seem to be very embedded as well.

Really? That's not my experience. But then, you're the one who's always complaining that every left party is "open borders".

 

[belboid]

Steve Freeman is up for expulsion - for insisting on standing against the official TUSC/LU candidate, ex-Labourite Kinglesy Abrahams.

Of course Comrade Freeman is standing on THE key issue of this election:

2. I will be explaining to the people of Bermondsey the political significance of the forty five percent who voted ‘Yes’ in the Scottish referendum and why we must follow the lead of the Scottish people in taking the path of democratic revolution.

 

[Idris2002]

TUSC is standing in a marginal - Lancaster and Fleetwood - against a lefty and former researcher to Corbyn. Between them and, more seriously, the Greens they could hand that seat to the Tories.

Well spotted, comrade. We don't want Mr. Jones the farmer to come back, do we?

 

[articul8]

? ^ I gather sense has prevailed in any case

 

[SpackleFrog]

Steve Freeman up for expulsion - for insisting on standing againsdt the official TUSC/LU candidate, ex-Labourite Kinglesy Abrahams.

Of course Comrade Freeman is standing on THE key issue of this election:

2. I will be explaining to the people of Bermondsey the political significance of the forty five percent who voted ‘Yes’ in the Scottish referendum and why we must follow the lead of the Scottish people in taking the path of democratic revolution.

Somebody just posted this on my wall. What on earth is this guy thinking?

 

[articul8]

Not entirely sure it's a good thing to stand any candidate there if it makes Hughes's life any easier - although Kingsley's a decent enough sort (we tried to get him adopted as our local Labour candidate but he didn't get shortlisted).

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Somebody just posted this on my wall. What on earth is this guy thinking?

He's been the leader of a sect of, well, maybe half a dozen originally but one now, for three decades. This is par for the course.